Small yang fix that upgrades people and aura

[Spinoirr]

Reminder that using weapons and semblances also uses up aura so my revision can't really be based off her aura HP alone, it's literally just the approximate maximum amount of hits she can take and I counted those hits

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The OVERALL ability change is fine to me. She does in fact take in hits and send them back at most 2x harder.

However, her AP then being = to all the hits combined is not 100% accurate. As we have seen, her semblance when she turns it on doesn't go away with a single hit until she begins explicitly using it that way. This means that, at least from volumes 1-3, she's not attacking at max capacity with every single hit.

Picture it like this:

She herself is a 1 and her opponent is a 2. Opponent hits her, she now doubles his damage and becomes a 5 when her semblance activates. However, that is only for a single attack. The energy she gains goes away everytime she hits something.

So in the case where she has become, say, a 101 from the opponent hitting her 50 times. She can either use all 100 that she has gained, or use bursts of smaller amounts like 10's.

Her damage doesn't statically become what she has absorbed, it goes away as she hits and she, especially from v4 onwards, can choose how much she wants to expend per attack.

Also no one scales to this, since no one has withstood a full hit from Yang with her semblance. The closest we've come to that is Mercury taking a shot to the face when he threw the match, and that was after she expended a lot of energy to take down his aura first.

So this wouldn't really change any aura's to my knowledge, since they're already rated as "higher" which is what this change to Yang should also make her. If she did a single hit with all the energy stored into it and someone was still standing, then I would say they scale, but there are no examples of that.

Also it would be absolutely foolish to say that a High 8-C character scales to 8-A from hitting someone with their High 8-C attacks

 

[Spinoirr]

But her semblance can look like this just in case the whole multipliers hit stacking doesn't work
"higher with Burn (yang absorbs each hit and can store each hit and send back all the stored attacks back twice as hard)"

 

[Theglassman12]

@Kingofwolves999

aura durability for everyone is "at least 8-A at max | at least 8-A at max | at least 7-C at max | at least low 7-B at max" or "at least 8-A at max | at least 8-A at max | at least 8-A at max | at least low 7-B at max"

He is arguing everyone’s aura would scale to this, which in turn is gonna lead to a lot of circular scaling since people’s aura breaks mid combat all the time.

 

[Spinoirr]

It's higher, up to xx at max (how much it takes to one shot at full health)

That's what I'm saying

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It's higher, up to xx at max (how much it takes to one shot at full health)

That's what I'm saying

I don't find that necessary? It's assuming everyone can tank that amount of damage which isn't founded at all since Aura's are not only distinct, but no one has tanked a full attack from Yang using all the stocked power she has and had their aura still standing. A higher rating is fine I feel since the specifics of how much "health" an Aura shield has is very loose and badly written

 

[Spinoirr]

However, her AP then being = to all the hits combined is not 100% accurate. As we have seen, her semblance when she turns it on doesn't go away with a single hit until she begins explicitly using it that way. This means that, at least from volumes 1-3, she's not attacking at max capacity with every single hit.

Actually this was accounted for in my OP, it's why shes listed as being 'at least 8-A' for the early series. The mercury fight didnt bring her to her limit with her aura so she still had aura to burn with her semblance, meaning that she wasnt fighting with a maxed out Burn and thus was able to sustain her powerup longer at the expense of her amp being weaker.
That only changes after the timeskip when she starts waiting until her aura is about to break to use it, letting her max out her semblance but only for a single punch but burning through what's left of her aura as a result.

 

[Spinoirr]

I don't find that necessary? It's assuming everyone can tank that amount of damage which isn't founded at all since Aura's are not only distinct, but no one has tanked a full attack from Yang using all the power and had their aura still standing. A higher rating is fine I feel since the specifics of how much "health" an Aura shield has is very loose and badly written

That's why the "at least" is there

 

[Kingofwolves999]

That's why the "at least" is there

Just put "higher." There is no reason at all to assume every Aura user in the series can tank her full stored up power.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Actually this was accounted for in my OP, it's why shes listed as being 'at least 8-A' for the early series. The mercury fight didnt bring her to her limit with her aura so she still had aura to burn with her semblance, meaning that she wasnt fighting with a maxed out Burn and thus was able to sustain her powerup longer at the expense of her amp being weaker.
That only changes after the timeskip when she starts waiting until her aura is about to break to use it, letting her max out her semblance but only for a single punch but burning through what's left of her aura as a result.

Yes, I noted all this and said so. She had to attack through his aura with bursts of her amp. So I don't see why he would scale to 8-A if she isn't hitting him with the full power every single time, which she can't do.

 

[Spinoirr]

Peoples aura levels vairy between people. Adams aura was one shot by yangs semblance at max power yet he still got up even if his aura was one shot

That's the post haven has a "at least" and "up to"

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Peoples aura levels vairy between people. Adams aura was one shot by yangs semblance at max power yet he still got up even if his aura was one shot

One Shot
He had been fighting for a long time before then and taken dozens of hits

 

[Spinoirr]

Then that implies his max aura Heath is stronger then even yangs max charged semblance

 

[Spinoirr]

Yes, I noted all this and said so. She had to attack through his aura with bursts of her amp. So I don't see why he would scale to 8-A if she isn't hitting him with the full power every single time, which she can't do.

She is hitting him with her full power every time. Nowhere in any source does it imply that she has the ability to use her semblance in bursts so I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she can.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

To use your own number:

After taking those hits from Mercury, Yang hit Mercury back 9 times, with the 8th one breaking his aura.

Assuming its even, since she did a consecutive series of blows, 176/9 = 19.6 tons per hit, so his aura would not be 8-A for taking multiple 8-B attacks.

Assigning tiers to Aura in general doesn't work because its a health bar.

She is hitting him with her full power every time. Nowhere in any source does it imply that she has the ability to use her semblance in bursts so I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she can.

Excuse me? She expends energy every time she hits back, does she not? That's how her ability works. She takes energy, increases it while its within her, then puts it back out harder. How is she hitting harder if she's retaining any of that energy? It goes away when she hits. That's basic Kinetic Energy physics.

She doesn't take in a bunch of kinetic energy, use some of it, then keep what she just used anyway for further usage. She's not operating on some kind of timer where she just can infinitely use all the kinetic energy she has gained until her mode runs out. The entire basis of using it all at the last moment is because she loses the energy when she uses her ability.

Then that implies his max aura Heath is stronger then even yangs max charged semblance

Almost like he has a truck ton of aura, but isn't astronomically stronger than blake or yang. Aura is a shield, but it doesn't straight block damage unless you yourself are far stronger than your enemy. So listing Adam as "8-A with his Aura" is incorrect, because it doesn't negate 8-A attacks nor prevent him from being hurt by anything below 8-A attacks. An 8-B would stomp Adam into the ground and a High 8-C would be fully capable of breaking his aura.

It feels incredibly misleading to label these characters defense at "8-A" as if they can withstand attacks at that level, when its really just a high 8-C to baseline 8-B shield (for everything pre-atlas) that stays up until a certain point.

Attempting to turn this "health bar" type shield into a tier-able ability just doesn't work I feel.

 

[Spinoirr]

Excuse me? She expends energy every time she hits back, does she not? That's how her ability works. She takes energy, increases it while its within her, then puts it back out harder. How is she hitting harder if she's retaining any of that energy? It goes away when she hits. That's basic Kinetic Energy physics.

Uh No, she doesn't expend the energy she adds it to her physical strength. That's not her semblance works, not releasing it in bursts she just makes herself stronger.

Literally the description of Yang's semblance is 'She absorbs the energy she gets hit with, stores it, adds it to her physical strength when shes ready and hits back twice as hard'. Nothing about her releasing it in bursts.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also what I'm trying to say about the whole aura durability is

You have a aura health of 100
If you get hit by say 4 attacks that do 10 damage your health goes down to 60. But if you are hit by one attack that does 100 damage you get your Heath bar one shot but you are still alive as that was just the forcefields health bar protecting you

 

[Theglassman12]

Literally the description of Yang's semblance is 'She absorbs the energy she gets hit with, stores it, adds it to her physical strength when shes ready and hits back twice as hard'. Nothing about her releasing it in bursts.

If it wasn’t short bursts how did Yang doing multiple hits on Mercury remotely work? Because she landed a lot of hits on him when her semblance was active. It adds more questions than answers.

 

[Spinoirr]

Because in that fight she still had aura left but after the time skip she always used it at the end of a fight when he aura is super low (meaning she can only use it in one shot)

they literally show her aura meter in the fight. She added the energy she hit him with to her own strength, I'm not sure what's confusing about it.

 

[Theglassman12]

You’re saying it’s not in bursts, which isn’t true because if its not in bursts then any time she’s ever used her semblance would’ve only been done in one hit, and not numerous hits, Mercury’s beat down shoots your argument in the foot.

 

[Spinoirr]

Well that's because semblance drains aura
Post time skip yang uses semblance at the end of fight, she doesn't have enough aura to use her semblance longer then one hit so her aura breaks Just like the Adam fight

 

[Theglassman12]

So you admit that her aura broke, which the newer volumes hammered in the fact that semblances are powered by one’s aura. That shoots your Mercury scaling even harder by your own logic.

 

[Spinoirr]

You're arguing that shes releasing energy when shes not, that alone calls your argument into question as it's not how her semblance works. Shes not releasing anything, shes adding to her physical power.

 

[Spinoirr]

The reason shes able to fight for longer periods of time pre-timeskip is because she uses her semblance earlier when she still has a good amount of aura to burn, whereas after the timeskip she waits until her semblance is literally about to break to use it so she can only land a single solid punch with it but its stronger than her pre-timeskip punches.

Its like the kaioken, why didn't Goku just use the kaioken and stay in it if he can. Why did he use it in bursts instead

 

[Theglassman12]

that’s not how her semblance works

Did you not read a single one of your scans at all? You literally have numerous statements of Yang sending back the damage she takes. That’s her releasing energy. It could not be more blatant than that.

goku’s kaioken is a false equivalency. The kaioken doesn’t drain his ki and he can stay in weaker kaioken states to fight a lot longer than he would in any of his stronger states.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yang operates off of borrowed energy. When she uses that energy, it goes away into the opponent when she hits them. That’s how a punch works, except instead of regaining the spent energy like a normal punch would, it doesn’t come back. Because it’s borrowed.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

You can do whatever to Yang's Semblance but it should by no means ever scale to her Aura. Aura in general is very inconsistent and varies between tanking the back hand of a mech to breaking after one hit from someone of comparable strength.

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah aura varies between people all the time

 

[Spinoirr]

That's not how it works though, it's a stat amp, shes not using or projecting the energy shes absorbing it to empower herself to make her attacks stronger.
Monty himself even compared the mechanics of Burn to a power meter from a fighting game, where the more you get hit the more the meter builds and then you activate the power meter to make your attacks stronger

Another equivalence would be cell or buu, did cell get weaker from using energy after he absorbed the androids? Or did buu get weaker from using ki attacks after he absorbed piccolo or gohan?
How about superman. Does superman get instantly reverted to his base power after throwing s single punch after a sundip?

 

[Theglassman12]

So you admit they vary, then everyone’s aura durability doesn’t scale if they vary.

 

[Spinoirr]

Why else would it be a "at least up to"

 

[Theglassman12]

Can you stop with these massive false equivalencies? dragon ball and DC comics aren’t helping you when they don’t function the same way semblances does, which is powered by a character’s aura.

That’s not how it works, “at least up to” would imply the characters are relative when it comes to aura, you admitting that it varies means they wouldn’t scale.

 

[Spinoirr]

So you admit they vary, then everyone’s aura durability doesn’t scale if they vary.

I'm not arguing that their aura would have a flat 8-A/8-A/8-A/Low 7-B durability, that's just the maximum amount of damage it can take before it breaks

 

[Spinoirr]

Hmmm how about this for aura
"Varies with Aura (Aura functions as a forcefield with a 'health bar' rather than a flat durability, and is able to withstand up to X level of damage before breaking but can be broken by a sufficient number of weaker attacks)"

 

[Theglassman12]

varies with aura doesn’t really work here, just say “higher with aura” and leave it at that.

 

[Spinoirr]

But yangs semblance does get reworded and "upgraded"?

Also aura really does variey as its like a health bar

 

[Theglassman12]

It being a health bar means Jack shit when the most consistent thing we have for the thing is it protects the user from attack that would be fatal, having a varies implies it gets weaker as well which isn’t true.

 

[Spinoirr]

But their aura does get weaker each hit they take that's literally the entire point of the vytal festival's aura tracking stopping at 15% aura, because at that point a strong enough attack can potentially break the rest of it and actually injure the person

 

[Spinoirr]

Uh glass have you even seen RWBY?

No offense, just wondering because you kinda forget that aura depletes each hit they take and each time they use semblances, makeing their aura weaker and more easier to break

 

[Theglassman12]

yes, the aura would break because the bar would be depleted from enough damage. That doesn’t debunk my point.

What does that have anything to do with my point? No aura’s durability doesn’t get weaker, the energy to sustain an aura drains the more aura gets hit or using a semblance. Prove that that’s remotely said about aura as a whole right now.