Rikudou Madara Uciha vs 7th Hokage (8/11/0)

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, imma go with Madara FRA.
Naruto has no answers to the mind hax. IT one-shots.

 

[KingAllen30]

Yeah, imma go with Madara FRA.
Naruto has no answers to the mind hax. IT one-shots.

But can’t he activated when Naruto know about it before hand? This Naruto know everything about Madara

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But can’t he activated when Naruto know about it before hand? This Naruto know everything about Madara

I mean, even during the war, he knew Madara's plan perfectly well, and Madara still managed to activate it. Madara has numerous ways to stall Naruto quite easily.
Also, Madara doesn't need to use the planetary version of IT, he can just use a localized version on Naruto alone and call it a day.

 

[KingAllen30]

I mean, even during the war, he knew Madara's plan perfectly well, and Madara still managed to activate it. Madara has numerous ways to stall Naruto quite easily.
Also, Madara doesn't need to use the planetary version of IT, he can just use a localized version on Naruto alone and call it a day.

Madara in character doesn’t used IT when battling opponents he can enjoy, he used IT at that time just because he just want to realize his plan. Unless this is bloodlust match I don’t see him doing that. Also that Narutro still new with his power he even doesn’t realize he can fly at that time

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Madara in character doesn’t used IT when battling opponents he can enjoy, he used IT at that time just because he just want to realize his plan. Unless this is bloodlust match I don’t see him doing that.

Madara's goal is always to activate the IT, which he never strayed from while fighting Naruto and Sasuke. He has no reason not to use it here.

Also that Narutro still new with his power he even doesn’t realize he can fly at that time

It's not like Adult Naruto is actually inventive or creative with his abilities and techniques. His whole arsenal revolves around melee, basic Rasengans, and a few clones occasionally. His combat intelligence and creativity have clearly suffered immensely, so I don't see him pulling anything impressive here.

 

[Galvino]

Where's the proof that IT is aoe without the moon anyway?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Madara but with High Diff.
Hokage Naruto in character isn't very versatile often resorting to H2H or just rasengans. Madara on the other hand abuses his Limbo clones for both offensive and defensive purposes. and while I do think if Naruto went Baryon mode he would slap madara a new one, he has the regen to likely just outlast Naruto aswell.

So Madara 6/10 times.

 

[KingAllen30]

Madara but with High Diff.
Hokage Naruto in character isn't very versatile often resorting to H2H or just rasengans. Madara on the other hand abuses his Limbo clones for both offensive and defensive purposes. and while I do think if Naruto went Baryon mode he would slap madara a new one, he has the regen to likely just outlast Naruto aswell.

So Madara 6/10 times.

Naruto always used h2h bc all of his opponents in New Era cab always absorb chakra/ninjutsu even though Madara also could absorb chakra iirc he doesn’t used it as much in character anyway so that point moot, TSO doesn’t work on Naruto and Limbo also doesn’t on Naruto bc clones

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Naruto always used h2h bc all of his opponents in New Era cab always absorb chakra/ninjutsu even though Madara also could absorb chakra iirc he doesn’t used it as much in character

He does. Madara absorbs Jutsu and chakra regularly.
He absorbed Naruto's Rasenshuriken, Onoki's Jinton (once, but expressed the desire to do it a second time), Sasuke's Amaterasu, Hashirama's Senjutsu, and Kyuubi chakra from some dead fodder ninja.
Absorption is absolutely in character for him.

anyway so that point moot, TSO doesn’t work on Naruto and Limbo also doesn’t on Naruto bc clones

You do realize Madara has clones too, right? If he gets overwhelmed by Naruto's clones, he can literally just make his own. Not that clone spamming is even in character for Adult Naruto, but yeah it doesn't matter.

Also, Madara has access to Wood Release, which is a direct counter to Naruto's Bijū chakra if he decides to rely on the Kurama Avatar at any point.

 

[KingAllen30]

He does. Madara absorbs Jutsu and chakra regularly.
He absorbed Naruto's Rasenshuriken, Onoki's Jinton (once, but expressed the desire to do it a second time), Sasuke's Amaterasu, Hashirama's Senjutsu, and Kyuubi chakra from some dead fodder ninja.
Absorption is absolutely in character for him

Does he do it when he become Six path?

 

[KingAllen30]

Like when he didn’t used it when Naruto launch lava rasenshuriken at him.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Like when he didn’t used it when Naruto launch lava rasenshuriken at him.

He was caught off guard by the attack, and he was still recovering from the damage received by Night Guy.

Does he do it when he become Six path?

He never really needed to, aside from the aforementioned Lava Rasenshuriken example. And it's not like he became a completely different character after absorbing the Juubi. He has previously shown that he's willing and able to absorb Jutsu, and that means he's likely to do so if the need arises.

 

[KingAllen30]

He was caught off guard by the attack, and he was still recovering from the damage received by Night Guy

He’s not that caught off guard lol he’a still react to it and the first thing that he’s thing that he thought was Limbo when Naruto launch that

 

[KingAllen30]

Even when Naruto and Sasuke pin him with Rasengan and Chidori he doesn’t absorb their technique and instead exchange place with the Limbo and even the supposed Limbo evem doesn’t absorb their technique

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He’s not that caught off guard lol he’a still react to it and the first thing that he’s thing that he thought was Limbo when Naruto launch that

Limbo is thought based, and is likely faster. The absorption isn't the fastest, and with such a tiny distance between them, Limbo was probably more practical in that situation.

Even when Naruto and Sasuke pin him with Rasengan and Chidori he doesn’t absorb their technique and instead exchange place with the Limbo and even the supposed Limbo evem doesn’t absorb their technique

Absorbing instead of substituting out in that instance would've been a bad choice because Naruto and Sasuke were trying to nullify his abilities and seal him away with their Sun and Moon seals. He made the smarter choice in that case if anything.

 

[KingAllen30]

Absorbing instead of substituting out in that instance would've been a bad choice because Naruto and Sasuke were trying to nullify his abilities and seal him away with their Sun and Moon seals. He made the smarter choice in that case if anything.

Iirc Madara doesn’t know that
And why doesn’t the Limbo just absorb the technique? The Limbo supposedly had the same power as a original

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Iirc Madara doesn’t know that

He literally substituted after beginning to get sealed by Naruto's Magnet Rasengan.

And why doesn’t the Limbo just absorb the technique? The Limbo supposedly had the same power as a original

It couldn't because it was sealed at that point.

 

[Galvino]

What good does having the other half of Kurama and a little bit of every Bijuu does when he had half Hagoromo's chakra when he realized the feat? Hagoromo, before dying, was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, he had two Rinnegan and amassing Six Paths chakra was as natural to him as breathing. It's not comparable.

Doesn't matter, he can still make a hundred or so clones without charge up like in the many fights from before in the series, making a thousand or whatever isn't needed anyway.

Your argument started with the false premisse that Hokage Naruto would be able to make comparable clones, which he can't. Madara doesn't need to know which Naruto is the original one. Remember: the IT is an AOE attack even without the moon, it'll reach anyone who is within range of the Rinne-Sharingan's light.

Proof that IT is AOE without the moon?

I don't care about past instances of the logistics involving clones. Naruto might as well have created a trillion in the past. What is stated is that Kurama had to charge up so that Naruto could create decent enough clones to buy time and bait Kaguya. I don't see Naruto telling Kurama "but you helped create create x number in the past without charging up", no, Naruto simply says 'thanks' and makes use of the power Kurama amassed.

Naruto just got his chakra absorbed.

I don't think that argument has much weight for two reasons: both don't even mention that they lost a decent amount of chakra. For them, it's irrelevant. The next thing Sasuke says after Naruto rips Zetsu away is "we need to create an opening." And Sasuke can't restore his own chakra in the same manner as Naruto, and there is no mention that any of them are weakened due to that. The thing is that those clones are not meant to be there defeating or injuring Kaguya, they were create specifically to buy time and bait Kaguya. Naruto creates one for each shadow because he needs to at least hold the shadows back, or else fighting Madara would be much more complicated.

Prove it's irrelevant, it's not like we saw Naruto do this huge jutsu that proves he had a large amount of chakra left. There doesn't need to be a mention when we just saw them get their chakra absorbed. Also who cares what the intention of the clones are for? We know Naruto's clones are equal to Madara's clones. The limbo clones couldn't take down Naruto's clones, if they could've they would've.

The notion that Naruto can create hundreds of clones that can cause that much damage has been debunked.

Because Madara is going to stay there waiting to receive attacks. It's not like he has the Preta path or large-scale gravity-altering attacks.

It hasn't. Naruto can make a hundred or so when he was a kid, he doesn't need as many as he spawned in against Kaguya anyway. Naruto can fly my dude, what does gravity have to do with anything? Madara also isn't absorbing every single attack Naruto's clones could do at the same time from every direction. Naruto wins.

 

[Galvino]

He was caught off guard by the attack, and he was still recovering from the damage received by Night Guy.

Didn't madara say he wasn't weakened?

 

[Galvino]

And why doesn’t the Limbo just absorb the technique? The Limbo supposedly had the same power as a original

Actually I wanna see proof that the limbos can even do whatever the original can do.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Didn't madara say he wasn't weakened?

Here he implies that it's affecting him in some way.

 

[Slacjow]

How is Naruto taking down someone who has both his abilities and Sasuke's abilities?
I don't think this is canonically possible for either of them to put down Madara individually.
Oh, and if this is using Rinnesharingan Madara then Genjutsu GG.

 

[Galvino]

Here he implies that it's affecting him in some way.

And then he says "No!"

 

[Galvino]

How is Naruto taking down someone who has both his abilities and Sasuke's abilities?

To be fair, it's not like Sasuke is 100% equal to Naruto anyway, Sasuke needed all the tailed beasts' chakra to actually have an advantage over him. Naruto would've rocked Sasuke if he was bloodlusted.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And then he says "No!"

He's saying "No!" in regards to the idea that him recovering from the damage is the explanation for Naruto's performance, but instead a direct result of Naruto himself getting stronger. He's not denying the damage/recovery affecting him as well, though.

 

[Galvino]

He's saying "No!" in regards to the idea that him recovering from the damage is the explanation for Naruto's performance, but instead a direct result of Naruto himself getting stronger. He's not denying the damage/recovery affecting him as well, though.

I suppose, it's pretty telling though that Madara had to rely on these limbos to save him whenever Naruto and Sasuke did anything.

 

[Slacjow]

To be fair, it's not like Sasuke is 100% equal to Naruto anyway, Sasuke needed all the tailed beasts' chakra to actually have an advantage over him. Naruto would've rocked Sasuke if he was bloodlusted.

Madara isn't Sasuke, he has the Juubi and Rinnesharingan, and better abilities.
In terms of power he would be at least equal to Naruto and Sasuke if not stronger, we don't know how much Rinnesharingan boosted him.

 

[Galvino]

Madara isn't Sasuke, he has the Juubi and Rinnesharingan, and better abilities.
In terms of power he would be at least equal to Naruto and Sasuke if not stronger, we don't know how much Rinnesharingan boosted him.

I didn't say he was Sasuke. I'm just saying having Sasuke's power isn't this super mega advantage to have if Naruto can destroy Sasuke whenever he wanted to.

 

[Popted2]

while in this version he has not the TSO Naruto is still physically superior to his young self and can resist some majority of Madara powers

 

[Galvino]

Say your vote directly so OP can count your vote.

while in this version he has not the TSO Naruto is still physically superior to his young self and can resist some majority of Madara powers

 

[Popted2]

i did already voted him

 

[Galvino]

i did already voted him

nvm

 

[Slacjow]

while in this version he has not the TSO Naruto is still physically superior to his young self and can resist some majority of Madara powers

No he is not, we don't accept that scaling on this site.

I didn't say he was Sasuke. I'm just saying having Sasuke's power isn't this super mega advantage to have if Naruto can destroy Sasuke whenever he wanted to.

No, Naruto was stronger than Sasuke only after absorbing a bunch of Natural Energy, before that they were even. You can tell that by the damage both Kurama Avatar and Susanoo took from BB and Chidori clash, they were equally damaged. If Naruto was truly superior to Sasuke he would either easily overpower him or would receive less damage.

 

[Popted2]

No he is not, we don't accept that scaling on this site.

No, Naruto was stronger than Sasuke only after absorbing a bunch of Natural Energy, before that they were even. You can tell that by the damage both Kurama Avatar and Susanoo took from BB and Chidori clash, they were equally damaged. If Naruto was truly superior to Sasuke he would either easily overpower him or would receive less damage.

sorry didn't want to cause confusion

 

[Galvino]

No, Naruto was stronger than Sasuke only after absorbing a bunch of Natural Energy, before that they were even. You can tell that by the damage both Kurama Avatar and Susanoo took from BB and Chidori clash, they were equally damaged. If Naruto was truly superior to Sasuke he would either easily overpower him or would receive less damage.

Huh??? I'm talking about when the fight first began before Sasuke absorbed the beasts' chakra, that's when Naruto could destroy Sasuke. Idk if this part is in the manga, but Naruto overpowered Sasuke's susano, pinned him to water and was gonna nuke his face but stopped. Also Naruto could've made clones at the start of the fight to even avoid any struggle in the first place. Sasuke going all out and Naruto holding back to save his friend doesn't scream they are equal to me.

 

[aeneax]

Doesn't matter, he can still make a hundred or so clones without charge up like in the many fights from before in the series, making a thousand or whatever isn't needed anyway.

It does. Having half of Hagoromo's far oustrips having the other half of Kurama.

Proof that IT is AOE without the moon?

Kaguya used it in the past to create an army. Danzou affected Mifune even with the Sharingan covered and without having to look at his eyes. IT is the most powerful genjutsu of all, I'd assume it would have a much greater effects.

Naruto just got his chakra absorbed.

You have to quantify how that impacted Naruto using a source because the characters themselves don't mention that affecting their performance in any way.

Prove it's irrelevant, it's not like we saw Naruto do this huge jutsu that proves he had a large amount of chakra left. There doesn't need to be a mention when we just saw them get their chakra absorbed. Also who cares what the intention of the clones are for? We know Naruto's clones are equal to Madara's clones. The limbo clones couldn't take down Naruto's clones, if they could've they would've.

You have to quantify that using a source because the characters themselves don't mention that affecting their performance in any way. She did absorb, how much is the question, not if it happened. Yes, Naruto's clones were indeed matching Madara's shadows, because they numbered in four and they wouldn't perform the same if they numbered in hundreds or dozens.

It hasn't. Naruto can make a hundred or so when he was a kid, he doesn't need as many as he spawned in against Kaguya anyway. Naruto can fly my dude, what does gravity have to do with anything? Madara also isn't absorbing every single attack Naruto's clones could do at the same time from every direction. Naruto wins.

No one is contesting that. Really? Four of Madara's shadows and a metor was enough to keep Sasuke and Naruto busy, to the point where Madara had free reign to activate the IT without anyone even bothering him, and you think more clones wouldd take care of the problem? Please.

"Naruto can fly my dude, what does gravity have to do with anything?" < I want you to carefully and slowly think about what you just said.

Madara can deal with Naruto, has everything Naruto has to a greater extent and Naruto can't counter IT.

 

[Slacjow]

Huh??? I'm talking about when the fight first began before Sasuke absorbed the beasts' chakra, that's when Naruto could destroy Sasuke. Idk if this part is in the manga, but Naruto overpowered Sasuke's susano, pinned him to water and was gonna nuke his face but stopped. Also Naruto could've made clones at the start of the fight to even avoid any struggle in the first place. Sasuke going all out and Naruto holding back to save his friend doesn't scream they are equal to me.

Em, no. Also, let's not turn this into Naruto vs Sasuke. There's a literal on screen feat that supports that Sasuke=Naruto. Both were equally damaged from this, the headcanon is irrelevant in front of canon. Also let's not use "But Naruto could....", but Sasuke could, like, absorb all chakra attacks from Naruto. He could let Naruto fire that BB and then replace Kurama Avatar with Susanoo.

No, Naruto was stronger than Sasuke only after absorbing a bunch of Natural Energy, before that they were even. You can tell that by the damage both Kurama Avatar and Susanoo took from BB and Chidori clash, they were equally damaged. If Naruto was truly superior to Sasuke he would either easily overpower him or would receive less damage.

 

[KingAllen30]

Em, no. Also, let's not turn this into Naruto vs Sasuke. There's a literal on screen feat that supports that Sasuke=Naruto. Both were equally damaged from this, the headcanon is irrelevant in front of canon. Also let's not use "But Naruto could....", but Sasuke could, like, absorb all chakra attacks from Naruto. He could let Naruto fire that BB and then replace Kurama Avatar with Susanoo.

Idk where you think that Naruto=Sasuke is came from but even Sasuke mock Naruto for not going all out calling him out for being on always defensive and lack killing intent

 

[KingAllen30]

And Sasuke need chakra from all Bijuu to finally overpower Naruto even then Naruto can counter that by gathering more sage chakra. Anyway stop derailing

 

[Galvino]

It does. Having half of Hagoromo's far oustrips having the other half of Kurama.

Already said making as many as he did against Kaguya isn't needed.

Kaguya used it in the past to create an army. Danzou affected Mifune even with the Sharingan covered and without having to look at his eyes. IT is the most powerful genjutsu of all, I'd assume it would have a much greater effects.

IT being the most powerful doesn't mean regular tsukuyomi has aoe. The genjutsu shisui had being aoe doesn't mean regular tsukuyomi has aoe. Your assumption is an assumption.

You have to quantify how that impacted Naruto using a source because the characters themselves don't mention that affecting their performance in any way.

Why would I have to quantify it? We saw Naruto's chakra get absorbed from him and then later on he has charge up some chakra to make a huge amount of clones, simple.

You have to quantify that using a source because the characters themselves don't mention that affecting their performance in any way. She did absorb, how much is the question, not if it happened. Yes, Naruto's clones were indeed matching Madara's shadows, because they numbered in four and they wouldn't perform the same if they numbered in hundreds or dozens.

Why wouldn't they perform the same? Naruto made a LOT more clones in the battlefield to fight an army of kage and basically carry the entire alliance and all the clones worked just fine. Now in six paths, Naruto's his clones get weaker depending on the number? That's false, their power stay the same, no matter the quantity. If they jump Madara's limbos, it's over for them, they all get beat up and sealed. Then he bops Madara.