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How does naruto stop izanagi spam? Or regeneration? Naruto doesnt have win cons
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Rikudou Madara Uciha vs 7th Hokage (8/11/0)
- Thread starter WrongIdea21
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WrongIdea21
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Madara Never Shown To Use Izanagi On Rikudou Form, Regeneration would be negating with Rasenshuriken.
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Madara has superior regeneration, higher intelligence, more experience. Shown more justu to counter naruto. Truth seeking orbs and wood style to counter kurama. This isn't a competition. Madara fra
WrongIdea21
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Ok, I'll count your Vote
Naruto Can Negate Regeneration bruh, Naruto more Experiences at old self.
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First naruto has to hit him with it. Second he definetly doesnt have more expirence. Hows he getting through truth seeking orbs?
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When did rasenshuriken negate any regeneration? And we know madara can use izanagi, just because he doesnt, doesnt mean he cant, that isnt an argument. Not only that, easily negates rasenshuriken multiple ways, teleport to limbo, absorb, block with jutsu or TSO
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Naruto resists TSBs
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WrongIdea21
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Watch the last
WrongIdea21
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He negate Edo tensei 2nd Tsuchikage regeneration
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Just watched the fight, he uses planetary rasengan and it just knocks him back, only tearing the cloth and hurting his stomach, only to get immediately sealed, no negation there
WrongIdea21
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there's nothing wrong with rereading
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Oh i see, plus I didnt know what chapter it was so I simply youtubed it. But even so, doesnt madara heal from lava rasenshuriken from a stronger naruto? I know it isnt immediate, but he uses the fact that he's cut in half to fly away and take kakashi's eye, and by the time he's back he's full again
WrongIdea21
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Madara isn't heal Anything he Just absorb The Shinju tree for Recovering All of her wound like nothing Happens.
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Oop my bad, I was thinking of chidori blade. I guess I can't disprove regen negation, but naruto still cant win against izanagi spam, and it'll be easy to dodge with limbo teleportation
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Juubidara never uses Izanagi so there is no reason to say he would do it here. Naruto just jumps Madara with a thousand naked clones FRA.
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Because he doesnt isnt an argument when we know he can. And he literally rushes IT the moment he gets the chance once he has the rinnesharingan. In scenario where it's just them two fighting, he wouldnt rush head first just to use all his chakra when it's only him and another person.
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Why didn't he use izanagi when he got caught by Naruto and Sasuke with their sealing jutsus? Wouldn't it have been better to do that than sacrificing a limbo clone? I don't doubt he can use it at all but there's no evidence to say he can infinitely use and spam it.
Madara has no time to use IT, he's gonna get ********** by a thousand naruto clones.
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... this is the argument you use? Limbo clones have a very brief regeneration time plus they were already in use, why not use his active ability before using a new one causing him to expend more chakra (notably not a lot) when he was making sure to have enough for infinite tsukuyomi.
And when I say infinite use, I mean more countless, not literal infinite. He wouldnt lose his eyes, and danzo kind of proves that it doesnt expend an insane amount of chakra, especially because he was using them all just to make sure he had enough fighting power to go against obito, and he isnt even an uchiha, dojutsu master madara with juubi chakra would have godly amounts of izanagi usage, similar ap and same speed, he isnt going to spamming it until exhaustion
if naruto could do a thousand clones, then why didnt he against kaguya or madara? See why that logic kinda sucks? Plus the stats are similar and large amounts of clones would cause interuption with chakra flow and cause them to be less efficient.
Not only that, infinite tsukuyomi doesnt need to he reflected on the moon, we see madara cast it on obito when he shows him the infinite dream, also the fact kaguya used it without reflecting it off the moon to make the original zetsu.
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What does regeneration have to do with the sealing jutsus Naruto and Sasuke sandwiched the limbo clone with? There's no regenerating from getting sealed. Also wouldn't using limbo be considered a new ability compared to an old ability such as izanagi? Also Madara (after getting the eye on his forehead but before his second rinnegan) was trying to fight Naruto and Sasuke head on and kill them, you think he was holding back? He was getting bopped on and was forced to retreat, so this idea he was saving chakra for IT doesn't make sense. He was obviously going full power and failed.
Show the evidence Madara can use it without getting his eye closed permanently.
He did do it against Kaguya, that's why I brought it up. So we have an actual feat (making an army of clones) that we see happen vs the theory of spamming izanagi that we never see. I'll take feats over theories any day. Naruto in KCM 1 used an army of clones towards the beginning of the war to fight armies of kage, they all did just fine with no implication that they were less powerful because there was a large quantity of them. Now going to Six Paths Sage Mode, Naruto's clones were equal to Madara's limbos. The only counter I can think of for Madara is that maybe he can also just made an army of wood clones or something.
On obito? I have no idea what you're talking about, the third eye on his forehead didn't even pop out yet at that point. It only pooped out of Madara's forehead hole when he flew up to the moon. Madara probably just used regular dojutsu that is superior to Obito's.
WrongIdea21
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AnonymousBlank voted for Naruto, not Madara.
WrongIdea21
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my bad
WrongIdea21
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IT Need A Light Reflection, It Wouldn't Works On Naruto.
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Naruto has awareness of people's emotions and such, it's very unlikely for anyone to get the jump on him. If you have any negative or harmful thoughts about Naruto in any way, Naruto will know.
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Naruto hokage obviously knows the stuff that Madara has, why would him let Madara use Infinite Tsukuyomi?
WrongIdea21
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Have a Reason bro?
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The point of post-Shinju Madara is that he is pretty hard to kill. Madara has everything Naruto has to a greater extent. He can absorb ninjutsu, has superior healing abilities and Naruto can't counter the IT should Madara use it.
Like Beezlebuth already said, Madara can use a small-scale version of IT just by being connected to the Gedo Mazou.
Kaguya used IT before the moon even existed. People's conception of IT is that the character goes up and floats dramatically and needs to waste as much time as possible activating it. You only need to have your Rinne-Sharingan out and execute one hand seal. The only reason he needed the moon was to get as many people as possible.
Madara's shadows are as powerful as he is according to the 4th databook, and they didn't even use ninjutsu because their purpose, like the meteor Madara summoned, is to stall, to keep Naruto and Sasuke busy, as opposed to two of Naruto's clones using Rasengan against the shadows. To counter it, Naruto would have to rely on a small number of clones (like he did in the War, instead of using a thousand clones) because each clone requires Naruto to split up his chakra. When he made a thousand clones against Kaguya, his endgame wasn't to win or even to injure Kaguya; the clones are just a way to force Kaguya to switch dimensions so Obito can sync his eye with her space-time ninjutsu. When Kaguya starts targettingwhat she believes is the real Naruto, she disposes of most clones in a heartbeat. And keep in mind that Kurama built up chakra for Naruto before he created the clones, which would've amplified the quantity and power of clones tremendously. It's not something he can do on the go.
Hagoromo stated that he'd be sharing his power with Indra this time as well, so the default assumption is that he's at least as powerful now as he was then. The 4th databook reinforces (left side) that Hagoromo is giving his chakra, not just the jutsu to seal off Kaguya.
In chapter 686, Hagoromo explicitly tells us that he can't use his Summoning Technique because he gave his chakra away.
In chapter 690, Hagoromo finally gets his Yin-Yang seals back and can finally execute the Summoning Technique because the chakra he gave away has returned.
When Kaguya perceives Naruto and Sasuke with Byakugan, the largest concentration of chakra is in the palm of their hands.
Madara wins this.
Like Beezlebuth already said, Madara can use a small-scale version of IT just by being connected to the Gedo Mazou.
Kaguya used IT before the moon even existed. People's conception of IT is that the character goes up and floats dramatically and needs to waste as much time as possible activating it. You only need to have your Rinne-Sharingan out and execute one hand seal. The only reason he needed the moon was to get as many people as possible.
Madara's shadows are as powerful as he is according to the 4th databook, and they didn't even use ninjutsu because their purpose, like the meteor Madara summoned, is to stall, to keep Naruto and Sasuke busy, as opposed to two of Naruto's clones using Rasengan against the shadows. To counter it, Naruto would have to rely on a small number of clones (like he did in the War, instead of using a thousand clones) because each clone requires Naruto to split up his chakra. When he made a thousand clones against Kaguya, his endgame wasn't to win or even to injure Kaguya; the clones are just a way to force Kaguya to switch dimensions so Obito can sync his eye with her space-time ninjutsu. When Kaguya starts targettingwhat she believes is the real Naruto, she disposes of most clones in a heartbeat. And keep in mind that Kurama built up chakra for Naruto before he created the clones, which would've amplified the quantity and power of clones tremendously. It's not something he can do on the go.
Hagoromo stated that he'd be sharing his power with Indra this time as well, so the default assumption is that he's at least as powerful now as he was then. The 4th databook reinforces (left side) that Hagoromo is giving his chakra, not just the jutsu to seal off Kaguya.
In chapter 686, Hagoromo explicitly tells us that he can't use his Summoning Technique because he gave his chakra away.
In chapter 690, Hagoromo finally gets his Yin-Yang seals back and can finally execute the Summoning Technique because the chakra he gave away has returned.
When Kaguya perceives Naruto and Sasuke with Byakugan, the largest concentration of chakra is in the palm of their hands.
Madara wins this.
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Naruro FRA
TSO Doesn’t work Naruto.
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If he loses a clone, even sealed, he'll get it back very soon. And no, limbo was already activated, that's why I said it'd better to use the cards played then pull out something new.
I mean, not really. He doesnt show ANY super power that we know he has to combat the two, no perfect susanoo, no meteors, no large levels of wood style which would have stopped naruto and sasuke (or maybe just naruto) in their assault to protect the weak. Plus, trying to kill and fighting seriously isnt entirely the same thing, madara has been waiting for his second eye for such a long time at that point, he planned to get it back once he revived, but obito (who somehow had enough strength to fight even when hagaromo was bed ridden for months which is PIS), kept it away. So yeah, he was throwing attacks to kill, but he doesnt anything crazy or chakra expensive.
Yeah ill look for some things real quick, I know they exist so, but im also going to send this first so imma say them too.
First, we all know madara uses izanagi, he does it after he's been confirmed dead after weeks having implanted the jutsu in his eye, and with the hashirama cells in his mouth that he bit off, planted it onto his body and after years of waiting, finally got the rinnegan which recovered his eye (first proofie woofies)
Next, to help with the one after this, obito states that the first sage of six paths used izanagi
And we literally see hagaromo use COAT (which was said to just be izanagi by two different people)
i dont recall him actually sending thousands at kaguya, but it kinda doesnt matter, i brought it up to counter ridiculous logic. And i mean, that's why the amount of clones naruto could use against pain was limited, too many and the chakra network gets flimsy, not only that it splits up the chakra evenly which can hinder the person as both speed, strength and jutsu effectiveness are decided on by chakra control.
and now I can sit here with you and discuss why his shadows clones being equal to the limbo clones when the limbo clones were 100% to the original was absolute POO POO, but that wouldnt help anything. Considering madara has both more jinchuriki chakra and base chakra with the benefit of not evenly splitting chakra unless he wanted to, he could easily make enough clones to counter them. Plus many if not all could use susanoo which isnt something either the MC'S had shown to be able to do with their clones so
This was already stated above
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The reason he doesn’t used clones againts Pains was because it would hinder his clone to gather Nature energy.
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Also if he could used Izanami then he would used it when Zetsu stabbed him
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You know hokage naruto has an entire additional half of the nine tails, right? So he most likely wouldn't even need to charge up like before and just spam the clones instantly. So after doing so, Madara wouldn't be able to tell which Naruto is the original (since kaguya and zetsu couldn't tell), so a regular tsukiyomi wouldn't help much. Also half of kurama one time gave a naruto CLONE enough chakra to make hundreds of more clones to stop Madara's wood release, with no implication kurama was charging up, if anything kurama was weakened due to all the clones all using kcm1. Also in the first episode of the anime, Naruto makes a hundred or so clones, again with no implication of a charge up from kurama. Naruto not being able to make hundreds of clones is extremely unlikely. Also, Kaguya was absorbing Naruto's chakra prior to Kurama needing to charge up for Naruto, so the charge up doesn't apply to this full power hokage Naruto. At this point you'd have to argue Naruto even needs more than a dozen clones to dunk on Madara anyway. Also kaguya taking care of the clones easily doesn't matter since she is stated WAY above Madara anyway.
Madara ain't absorbing or surviving hundreds of rasengans or god knows what else Naruto could pull out.
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What good does having the other half of Kurama and a little bit of every Bijuu does when he had half Hagoromo's chakra when he realized the feat? Hagoromo, before dying, was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, he had two Rinnegan and amassing Six Paths chakra was as natural to him as breathing. It's not comparable.
Your argument started with the false premisse that Hokage Naruto would be able to make comparable clones, which he can't. Madara doesn't need to know which Naruto is the original one. Remember: the IT is an AOE attack even without the moon, it'll reach anyone who is within range of the Rinne-Sharingan's light.
I don't care about past instances of the logistics involving clones. Naruto might as well have created a trillion in the past. What is stated is that Kurama had to charge up so that Naruto could create decent enough clones to buy time and bait Kaguya. I don't see Naruto telling Kurama "but you helped create create x number in the past without charging up", no, Naruto simply says 'thanks' and makes use of the power Kurama amassed.
I don't think that argument has much weight for two reasons: both don't even mention that they lost a decent amount of chakra. For them, it's irrelevant. The next thing Sasuke says after Naruto rips Zetsu away is "we need to create an opening." And Sasuke can't restore his own chakra in the same manner as Naruto, and there is no mention that any of them are weakened due to that. The thing is that those clones are not meant to be there defeating or injuring Kaguya, they were create specifically to buy time and bait Kaguya. Naruto creates one for each shadow because he needs to at least hold the shadows back, or else fighting Madara would be much more complicated.
The notion that Naruto can create hundreds of clones that can cause that much damage has been debunked.
Because Madara is going to stay there waiting to receive attacks. It's not like he has the Preta path or large-scale gravity-altering attacks.
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