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I think Arc’s proposal for Koji Kashin is good, but if it’s really THAT contentious, I guess a likely wouldn’t be too bad.
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Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success
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MinatoSparkle
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As a reminder since this topic has become the center of attention, if this goes through, this would mean Base Jigen is more than 10x stronger than SPSM KCM Naruto because <10% Base Jigen matched Koji AP wise.
This is despite Naruto being implied to be above even 100% Base Jigen with the Juubi's chakra absorbed via kicking him away and making Jigen activate the Karma to take him down (even though a >10x difference should be more than enough for Jigen to be able to dominate in base), in addition to Naruto and Sasuke showing low end relativity to K1 Jigen, especially in the anime version.
Kawaki also thought SPSM KCM Naruto might be stronger than Jigen despite definitely knowing of Base Jigen's strength and probably knowing K1 Jigen.
So yeah, Base Koji>Delta is shaky enough on its own, and becomes almost impossible when you add in the fact that he scales to less than 10% of Base Jigen's strength.
This is despite Naruto being implied to be above even 100% Base Jigen with the Juubi's chakra absorbed via kicking him away and making Jigen activate the Karma to take him down (even though a >10x difference should be more than enough for Jigen to be able to dominate in base), in addition to Naruto and Sasuke showing low end relativity to K1 Jigen, especially in the anime version.
Kawaki also thought SPSM KCM Naruto might be stronger than Jigen despite definitely knowing of Base Jigen's strength and probably knowing K1 Jigen.
So yeah, Base Koji>Delta is shaky enough on its own, and becomes almost impossible when you add in the fact that he scales to less than 10% of Base Jigen's strength.
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Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I think GokuSparkle's points make sense to me rn.
Couple this with Amado implying that Koji is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke, as well as the Delta thing essentially amounting to confidence scaling like Damage mentioned, and I kinda see this being pretty shaky overall tbh.
Couple this with Amado implying that Koji is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke, as well as the Delta thing essentially amounting to confidence scaling like Damage mentioned, and I kinda see this being pretty shaky overall tbh.
MinatoSparkle
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Who are you and what have you done with Slayer.
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MinatoSparkle
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As a reminder since this topic has become the center of attention, if this goes through, this would mean Base Jigen is more than 10x stronger than SPSM KCM Naruto because <10% Base Jigen matched Koji AP wise.
This is despite Naruto being implied to be above even 100% Base Jigen with the Juubi's chakra absorbed via kicking him away and making Jigen activate the Karma to take him down (even though a >10x difference should be more than enough for Jigen to be able to dominate in base), in addition to Naruto and Sasuke showing low end relativity to K1 Jigen, especially in the anime version.
Kawaki also thought SPSM KCM Naruto might be stronger than Jigen despite definitely knowing of Base Jigen's strength and probably knowing K1 Jigen.
So yeah, Base Koji>Delta is shaky enough on its own, and becomes almost impossible when you add in the fact that he scales to less than 10% of Base Jigen's strength.
I’m not proposing 10% base Jigen ~ base Koji. It isn’t until 10% Jigen enters is Otsutsuki form does he actually contest Koji, Koji forces him into that form before getting physically overpowered. The Koji Jigen scaling doesn’t contradict the Naruto vs Jigen fight, because Otsutsuki form Jigen no diffs Naruto and Sasuke. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke combined are quite literally quantifiably stronger than Koji based on my proposals, so that’s not defeating the argument either.
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MinatoSparkle
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Whether or not you proposed it, the feats show that they are relative. You can say Koji's above because of his versatility and tactics overall, but in terms of stats, there's nothing suggesting Koji's superiority. And saying he "forced" Jigen into using the Karma is being rather generous. Jigen was running extremely low on chakra and didn't have the time to be going back and forth, which was gonna keep happening, as that's what happened in the moments leading up to his usage of the Karma.
And Koji doesn't scale to K2 Jigen at all, he was easily overpowered until he used the eternal flame thing.
And they're not quantifiably stronger than SM Koji.
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I have issues with the scales involving Delta. The fact that she kept up with Naruto Rikudō puts her above any weaker modes of him, including base.
Therefore, the scale: "Base Koji>Delta" and "Code limited>Delta" are strange, because both characters (Koji base and Code limited) do not have feats against a character of the same level as Naruto Rikudō, quite the contrary, the base Koji keept up with the base 10% Jigen, and the limited Code was afraid to face Naruto and Sasuke nerfed, he just thought that MAYBE he could win if he fighted in x1 with one of them... in addition to using Shikamaru as a hostage to prevent the Sage Naruto from facing him and Borushiki, and also has the fact of the Amado recreate Delta for the purpose of facing the limited Code, which makes this scale very strange...
Therefore, the scale: "Base Koji>Delta" and "Code limited>Delta" are strange, because both characters (Koji base and Code limited) do not have feats against a character of the same level as Naruto Rikudō, quite the contrary, the base Koji keept up with the base 10% Jigen, and the limited Code was afraid to face Naruto and Sasuke nerfed, he just thought that MAYBE he could win if he fighted in x1 with one of them... in addition to using Shikamaru as a hostage to prevent the Sage Naruto from facing him and Borushiki, and also has the fact of the Amado recreate Delta for the purpose of facing the limited Code, which makes this scale very strange...
MinatoSparkle
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Btw I got the removing Momoshiki>Kaguya rule CRT prepared, will be dropping prolly after the Koji discussion is finished cause I don't wanna handle 2 heavy points of contention at once.
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If you plan on dropping it, might as well drop it now cuz it’ll affect this CRT.
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If affects Sasuke scaling. And Sparkle would be dropping a separate crtah nah please make it a seperate thing
this shit been going like 16 pages already
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In my original post about it, I did support a likely rating for him for those very reasons.
MinatoSparkle
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Damage and Slayer seem to be more against it in general, but idk.
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I’m fine with changing it to a likely if that’s what more people agree on.
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Weren’t you told to make your Hinata proposal a separate thread or you talking about sumn elseI reason with Gokusparkle here tbh
Btw, it seems everybody keeps ignoring my proposal here
Tdjwo
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I don't really have an opinion on Koji scaling honestly.
Tdjwo
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So like, if full power Naruto is seen as equal to Delta, you're saying Delta is above base Jigen? That seems believable?
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I still agree with the op about scaling base koji to the delta, the main reason is that kashin never uses sage mode as soon as the koji starts, even after the jigen dies the koji still won't go into sage mode. Isshiki gets mad at him for playing mind games and this is how he actually unlocks his wise mode.
Anyway, the other part I want to point out is that koji talks about downloading as soon as you see it. He didn't think he was going to lose at all and thought the base version would suffice for him (I'm not saying he can beat him completely, but the base koji should scale to the delta). Also, even though he knows that he will fight with 10% jigen, he prefers to fight prepared, but with the same koji delta, he said that he will bring it down even though he knows his strength without any preparation. The koji fighting the jigen cares about him and sees him as a serious threat (even though he is 10%) but the same is not for the delta, he seriously didn't care about him and said he would bring him down even though he knew his Ap. amado doesn't seriously oppose it and says he shouldn't care (also there is one point I want to mention, naruto and delta are not quite = naruto i
Anyway, the other part I want to point out is that koji talks about downloading as soon as you see it. He didn't think he was going to lose at all and thought the base version would suffice for him (I'm not saying he can beat him completely, but the base koji should scale to the delta). Also, even though he knows that he will fight with 10% jigen, he prefers to fight prepared, but with the same koji delta, he said that he will bring it down even though he knows his strength without any preparation. The koji fighting the jigen cares about him and sees him as a serious threat (even though he is 10%) but the same is not for the delta, he seriously didn't care about him and said he would bring him down even though he knew his Ap. amado doesn't seriously oppose it and says he shouldn't care (also there is one point I want to mention, naruto and delta are not quite = naruto i
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my stance atm.
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I think base koji is stronger than delta
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base koji > delta looks fine to me.
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looks fine
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So it seems like staff are either neutral on it or in favor of changing Kashin to "Likely".
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i can still argue about this topic just waiting for them to be active
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I can change it to likely since shadow Duedate and tracer think likely is best
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