Revisitation to "Hinata Hyuga 'at least 6-B' upgrade"

[Tdjwo]

This is a follow-up to this post I made about the potential upgrade for Hinata Hyuga to at least 6-B. The reason I'm making this post is due to the arguments made by LordTracer, KingTempest and UchihaSlayer96.
There two main arguments made to disapprove this upgrade
1. Hinata doesn't have Hamura's chakra
2. The feat Hinata got from the Kyubi cloak is inconsistent since she is meant to scale below KCM 2 who got slapped by 1st form Juubi.

The debunks
Hinata doesn't have Hamura's chakra
This was the argument made by Uchihaslayer to disapprove the 6-B upgrade because he claimed she couldn't destroy the Tenseigan which Naruto could. He also claimed Hinata didn't replenish Naruto chakra but only prevented his chakra from getting absorbed because "she had a way" of countering the jutsu's absorbtion effects.
These points don't really make any sense because we literally saw Hinata falling victim to the Tenseigan's chakra absorption as well.

If she indeed had the ability to counter Toneri's absorption ability, then why did she also get her chakra absorbed and got knocked out by the effects of the Jutsu? In short, she had no counter to the jutsu in the movie.
As for Hinata being unable to destroy the Tenseigan, it was because she wasn't at her full strength at that moment. She has gotten her chakra system tampered with so many times prior to the Tenseigan's destruction and she was still recovering before she had the chance to regain her composure to destroy the tenseigan.

Even Naruto needed a lot of time to recover after he got his chakra tampered just once

As for her replenishing Naruto's reserves, it's pretty obvious. Toneri sucked Naruto till he went out of his Bijju Sage Mode. He was even shaking in his base form which means he was weakened due to chakra exhaustion.

But when Hinata touched him, he got replenished and instantly entered his BSM back

She later claims it herself that she does have Hamura's chakra.

In conclusion, Hinata does possess Hamura's chakra and it wasn't because "she had a way of countering the Tenseigan". That makes no sense. Not ot mention, the wiki even acknowledges Hinata's posession of Hamura's chakra so idk why you thought Hinata never had it. It's shown in the movie that she did have it and it's also acknowledged in the wiki.


The second argument they made is;
The feat Hinata got from the Kyubi cloak is inconsistent since she is meant to scale below KCM 2 who got slapped by 1st form Juubi. Hinata blasting away the Juubi arm makes no sense since KCM 2 Naruto got hit by it

The Debunk
There are two versions of KCM 2 Naruto. The first one is the "eKCM2 Naruto" who just unlocked the KCM 2 mode freshly but was still inexperienced and had a fixed time limit

Then there is a mastered KCM2 Naruto who was shown later in the war sharing his chakra with everyone, fighting on par with EMS Sasuke, KCM Minato, Edo Tobirama, etc.

It's also similar to Sasuke who had eEMS that was having an hard time facing Sage Kabuto

compared to his Mastered EMS that got a lot stronger in the war alongside Naruto.
What I'm trying to say is that, Hinata slapping away the Juubi arm isnt inconsistent because KCM2 Naruto is still stronger than Kyubi cloak Hinata. Hinata never fought Juubito like Naruto did. Her performing better than eKCM2 Naruto is not inconsistent as she got stronger as well. Even Hiashi could repel the Juubi arm without any cloak.
Even MKCM Naruto had better feats than eKCM2 Naruto despite the mode being overall weaker than eKCM 2.

KCM2 Naruto>Kyubi cloak Hinata>eKCM2 Naruto.

In conclusion, I'm still requesting for the "at least 6-B" upgrade for The Last Hinata since she scales above Kyubi cloak Hinata that could repel the Juubi arm. Thanks for reading.
Most of the credit goes to my friend who is the best Hinata or Hyuga scaler on Quora

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So you're arguing Hinata is comparable to War Arc KCM2 Naruto because she can replenish Naruto's chakra in the Last and helped him break the big Tenseigan? Your post is a bit hard to follow cuz you don't make your initial argument, rather you just list debunks.

 

[Tdjwo]

So you're arguing Hinata is comparable to War Arc KCM2 Naruto because she can replenish Naruto's chakra in the Last and helped him break the big Tenseigan? Your post is a bit hard to follow cuz you don't make your initial argument, rather you just list debunks.

Sorry if I didnt make it clear. My main argument is that Hinata(in the Last) is superior to Kyubi amp Hinata(in the war) who could repel the Juubi's arm that is country lvl. The debunk was that "Kyubi-amped Hinata" is superior to eKCM2 Naruto(not to be mistakened with KCM 2 Naruto) who got pushed back by the Juubi's arm.
TL Hinata>>Kyubi amped Hinata>Juubi's arm>eKCM2 Naruto

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My main argument is that Hinata(in the Last) is superior to Kyubi amp Hinata(in the war) who could repel the Juubi's arm that is country lvl.

Can you better explain this argument to me, I feel like I am only getting parts of it from reading your debunks.

 

[KingTempest]

Who the hell said she doesn't have Hamura's chakra?

 

[Tdjwo]

Who the hell said she doesn't have Hamura's chakra?

UchihaSlayer96

 

[Tdjwo]

Can you better explain this argument to me, I feel like I am only getting parts of it from reading your debunks.

Ok.
So first of all, I made this post explaining why Hinata should be upscaled to "at least 6-B". But @UchihaSlayer96 disagreed with the post because he thought Hinata did not possess Hamura's chakra. That is why I made a debunk with this new post explaining why Hinata does indeed have Hamura's chakra.
Secondly, @LordTracer, @KingTempest and @UchihaSlayer96 all claimed that Hinata with the Kyubi cloakcannot be scaled to 6-B because eKCm2 Naruto(who they mistakened for KCM2 Naruto) got pushed back slightly by the Juubi's arm. They expect Hinata to scale below Naruto regardless of the feat she could perform against the Juubi. That is why I also made this post explaining why it's not an inconsistent feat or outlier since KCM 2 Naruto was different from the eKCM2 Naruto who got slapped by the Juubi. Kyubi amp Hinata is only stronger than eKCM2 Naruto. But KCM2 Naruto who fought alongside edo Tobirama, KCM Minato, EMS Sasuke is still stronger than Kyubi amp Hinata. Which means the scaling is like this; KCM 2 Naruto>Kyubi amp Hinata>Juubi arm>eKCM2 Naruto

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I would definitely recommend sending this to @UchihaSlayer96

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

US69 is a bit busy atm but he’s aware this exists.

 

[Jibz]

following

 

[LordTracer]

Then there is a mastered KCM2 Naruto who was shown later in the war sharing his chakra with everyone, fighting on par with EMS Sasuke, KCM Minato, Edo Tobirama, etc.
It's also similar to Sasuke who had eEMS that was having an hard time facing Sage Kabuto compared to his Mastered EMS that got a lot stronger in the war alongside Naruto.

There are no scans or references for literally anything here.

 

[Tdjwo]

There are no scans or references for literally anything here.

I thought that was pretty clear. Please give me a sec.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So your argument is that Hinata has KCM2 levels of chakra in the Last, so she should scale scale to Kurama chakra amp Hinata from the war arc?

 

[Tdjwo]

So your argument is that Hinata has KCM2 levels of chakra in the Last, so she should scale scale to Kurama chakra amp Hinata from the war arc?

She should scale above Kurama chakra amp but yeah that's kind of the gist. Since chakra volumes boosts Hinata's AP, her AP in the last would be more than what she had in the war.

 

[Jibz]

that's kind of the gist.

then whats the whole thing, because we're all extremely confused here

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

She should scale above Kurama chakra amp but yeah that's kind of the gist. Since chakra volumes boosts Hinata's AP, her AP in the last would be more than what she had in the war.

Well I’d take US69’s suggesting of compiling all the scans that indicate that in this thread so it’s easy to follow and eliminate the confusion.

 

[Tdjwo]

then whats the whole thing, because we're all extremely confused here

@Arc7Kuroi already got what I meant. I would copy-paste the explanation from my previous comment.

Ok.
So first of all, I made this post explaining why Hinata should be upscaled to "at least 6-B". But @UchihaSlayer96 disagreed with the post because he thought Hinata did not possess Hamura's chakra. That is why I made a debunk with this new post explaining why Hinata does indeed have Hamura's chakra.
Secondly, @LordTracer, @KingTempest and @UchihaSlayer96 all claimed that Hinata with the Kyubi cloakcannot be scaled to 6-B because eKCm2 Naruto(who they mistakened for KCM2 Naruto) got pushed back slightly by the Juubi's arm. They expect Hinata to scale below Naruto regardless of the feat she could perform against the Juubi. That is why I also made this post explaining why it's not an inconsistent feat or outlier since KCM 2 Naruto was different from the eKCM2 Naruto who got slapped by the Juubi. Kyubi amp Hinata is only stronger than eKCM2 Naruto. But KCM2 Naruto who fought alongside edo Tobirama, KCM Minato, EMS Sasuke is still stronger than Kyubi amp Hinata. Which means the scaling is like this; KCM 2 Naruto>Kyubi amp Hinata>Juubi arm>eKCM2 Naruto

 

[LordTracer]

because eKCm2 Naruto(who they mistakened for KCM2 Naruto) got pushed back slightly by the Juubi's arm

It was the Kurama Avatar that got slapped by the Juubi, not just KCM2. There is a difference.

 

[Jibz]

So first of all, I made this post explaining why Hinata should be upscaled to "at least 6-B". But @UchihaSlayer96 disagreed with the post because he thought Hinata did not possess Hamura's chakra. That is why I made a debunk with this new post explaining why Hinata does indeed have Hamura's chakra.
Secondly, @LordTracer, @KingTempest and @UchihaSlayer96 all claimed that Hinata with the Kyubi cloakcannot be scaled to 6-B because eKCm2 Naruto(who they mistakened for KCM2 Naruto) got pushed back slightly by the Juubi's arm. They expect Hinata to scale below Naruto regardless of the feat she could perform against the Juubi. That is why I also made this post explaining why it's not an inconsistent feat or outlier since KCM 2 Naruto was different from the eKCM2 Naruto who got slapped by the Juubi. Kyubi amp Hinata is only stronger than eKCM2 Naruto. But KCM2 Naruto who fought alongside edo Tobirama, KCM Minato, EMS Sasuke is still stronger than Kyubi amp Hinata. Which means the scaling is like this; KCM 2 Naruto>Kyubi amp Hinata>Juubi arm>eKCM2 Naruto

alr alr, im getting the hang of it now. Too busy to look into this indepth, but i am following and curious

 

[Tdjwo]

It was the Kurama Avatar that got slapped by the Juubi, not just KCM2. There is a difference.

But it doesn't matter. It was still an avatar from eKCM2 Naruto. That form is weaker than Kyubi amp Hinata based on feats. KCM2 Naruto in the late war arc had far better feats than eKCM2 avatar. And it was that KCM 2 in the late war arc that amped Hinata to become temporarily stronger than the eKCM2 Naruto from earlier.

 

[LordTracer]

But it doesn't matter. It was still an avatar from eKCM2 Naruto. That form is weaker than Kyubi amp Hinata based on feats. KCM2 Naruto in the late war arc had far better feats than eKCM2 avatar. And it was that KCM 2 in the late war arc that amped Hinata to become temporarily stronger than the eKCM2 Naruto from earlier.

Okay but where’s the scans and references to prove that?

 

[Tdjwo]

Okay but where’s the scans and references to prove that?

Naruto could protect the entire alliance with his cloaks when the Juubi unleashed the "Tenpechii"

Could keep up with edo Tobirama and tag Juubito

 

[KingTempest]

A large amount of chakra in the form of the Kurama avatar got washed by the Juubi
Hinata (who's weaker than pre mastered KCM Naruto who saved her from Zetsus) plus a tiny bit of chakra from Kurama (less chakra than above) is now above that from above?
No

 

[LordTracer]

Naruto could protect the entire alliance with his cloaks when the Juubi unleashed the "Tenpechii"

That feat isn’t as impressive as you think it is. If I remember correctly, that was calced at only being a High 7-A to 6-C feat for Naruto himself and 7-A for the alliance members

Could keep up with edo Tobirama and tag Juubito

Post the full scan
Also you’re still missing references and haven’t posted a scan that shows that Naruto’s KCM2 got stronger.

 

[Tdjwo]

A large amount of chakra in the form of the Kurama avatar got washed by the Juubi
Hinata (who's weaker than pre mastered KCM Naruto who saved her from Zetsus) plus a tiny bit of chakra from Kurama (less chakra than above) is now above that from above?
No

Again, you are still going based off of what you think should have happened. Would you ever have expected someone like Hiashi to also be capable of blasting off the juubi's arm by himself? Of course not. It's basically how the powercliffing happened. Just because base Hinata is weaker than any version of KCM Naruto doesnt mean Naruto couldnt amp her to become above eKCM Naruto. Even Hiashi by himself scales above eKCM2 Naruto. Based on lore, Hinata is meant to be weaker than those forms. But based on feats, Hinata is above the earlyKCM2 Naruto but massively below lateKCM2 Naruto. It's the same way Base Naruto got outreacted by base Momoshiki

But could keep up with fused Momoshiki

 

[LordTracer]

Dude, bringing up Hiashi does not help your point in the slightest.

 

[Tdjwo]

Dude, bringing up Hiashi does not help your point in the slightest.

I'm only pointing out how its possible to still be as strong(er) than the Juubi arm even if you are meant to be weaker than Naruto. Hiashi is narratively weaker than eKCM 2 Naruto but he still had better feats than KCM Naruto

 

[LordTracer]

Hiashi is narratively weaker than eKCM 2 Naruto but he still had better feats than KCM Naruto

With a specific technique that doesn’t scale to his base stats, and is also exclusively a durability technique.

Doesn’t help you upgrade Hinata.

 

[KingTempest]

So you’re saying they’re stronger than the combined force of the bijuu.

You know lore has a part to play in powerscaling too right?

 

[Tdjwo]

So you’re saying they’re stronger than the combined force of the bijuu.

With the help of Naruto, yes they are. I mean, the combined force of the bijju were only from 1-7 tails. Did you forget even Killer bee who has the second strongest tailed beast was also given kurama cloak.

You know lore has a part to play in powerscaling too right?

The same lore that made late war arc base Naruto relative to rinnegan Sasuke. The same lore that made MKCM Naruto have better feats than eKCM2 Naruto. THe lore doesnt folow powerscaling at times tbh.

 

[Tdjwo]

That feat isn’t as impressive as you think it is. If I remember correctly, that was calced at only being a High 7-A to 6-C feat for Naruto himself and 7-A for the alliance members

Ok then. What about this;

KCM 2 Naruto who shared his chakra with the alliance could slice off multiple of the Juubi's arm. This feat is already better than eKCM2 Naruto and Kyubi ampred Hinata's feats. Remember, this is Naruto's chakra that did this.

 

[LordTracer]

Once again, references, give the chapter number for the scans you post

 

[Tdjwo]

Once again, references, give the chapter number for the scans you post

Chapter 617

 

[LordTracer]

KCM 2 Naruto who shared his chakra with the alliance could slice off multiple of the Juubi's arm. This feat is already better than eKCM2 Naruto and Kyubi ampred Hinata's feats. Remember, this is Naruto's chakra that did this.

You still have not posted a single scan/reference that says Naruto’s KCM2 got stronger, you keep mentioning this “eKCK2” as if it’s something that factually exists when you never even proved that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You still have not posted a single scan/reference that says Naruto’s KCM2 got stronger, you keep mentioning this “eKCK2” as if it’s something that factually exists when you never even proved that.

I think I know what he's talking about. He's talking about how MKCM Naruto was performing somewhat the same as he did the first time he used KCM2 against Madara and Obito and he assumed that his KCM2 would've gotten the same kind of Buff after he Mastered that too.

 

[Nierre]

Following

 

[Tdjwo]

You still have not posted a single scan/reference that says Naruto’s KCM2 got stronger, you keep mentioning this “eKCK2” as if it’s something that factually exists when you never even proved that.

There is no reference claiming KCM 2 Naruto got stronger but based on feats, we can clearly see it. Was there any reference that claimed EMS Sasuke got stronger? No. But we know he did get stronger since he went from struggling against Sage Kabuto to fighting on par alongside KCM2 Naruto and KCM Minato. "eKCM2" means "early KCM2" which was when Naruto first unlocked his KCM2. The term doesnt exist factually but you understnd what I mean. Same with eEMS Sasuke and EMS Sasuke.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There is no reference claiming KCM 2 Naruto got stronger but based on feats, we can clearly see it. Was there any reference that claimed EMS Sasuke got stronger? No. But we know he did get stronger since he went from struggling against Sage Kabuto to fighting on par alongside KCM2 Naruto and KCM Minato. "eKCM2" means "early KCM2" which was when Naruto first unlocked his KCM2. The term doesnt exist factually but you understnd what I mean. Same with eEMS Sasuke and EMS Sasuke.

EMS Sasuke is not on par with KCM2 Naruto, it's directly stated that he's on par with MKCM Naruto and War Arc Sakura.

 

[LordTracer]

I think I know what he's talking about. He's talking about how MKCM Naruto was performing somewhat the same as he did the first time he used KCM2 against Madara and Obito and he assumed that his KCM2 would've gotten the same kind of Buff after he Mastered that too.

Okay, but like, he’s trying to say that the Naruto that got slapped by the Juubi was using an inferior version of KCM2, but he hasn’t actually proven that. He also hasn’t shown when Naruto would’ve gotten stronger. We can’t just assume amps randomly happened.

Was there any reference that claimed EMS Sasuke got stronger? No. But we know he did get stronger since he went from struggling against Sage Kabuto to fighting on par alongside KCM2 Naruto and KCM Minato.

That doesn’t prove that EMS Sasuke got stronger, that just means Sage Kabuto is stronger than you think he is.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Okay, but like, he’s trying to say that the Naruto that got slapped by the Juubi was using an inferior version of KCM2, but he hasn’t actually proven that. He also hasn’t shown when Naruto would’ve gotten stronger. We can’t just assume amps randomly happened.

That doesn’t prove that EMS Sasuke got stronger, that just means Sage Kabuto is stronger than you think he is.

Oh, I'm aware of that. I'm just saying I figured out what he was talking about.