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I don’t think a single usage would affect her speed that drastically though. I mean how many other dimensions did she shift to? By the end of it she would’ve been ridiculously slower/weaker
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Naruto, Hinata and Toneri upgrades
- Thread starter Stryker861
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That’s not the point, we’re talking about unquantifiable speed amps and debuff. You can’t claim SPSM got faster for keeping up with a Kaguya that got slower. That’s just not how it works with unquantifiable amps and debuffs.
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- #123
she only had did it once, portal hopping once does not make her slower at all sense she had massive reserves left
yes, naruto can somewhat match her but she blitzes and bassically one shots sasuke who scaled to an earlier version of naruto
what gengar said
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Wrong because we are told every time she jumps it massively drains her chakra
She doesn’t one shot them lol. Honestly she catches them by surprise but that’s not all too relevant to my argument.
What I said
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Right, but my point was, they're claiming that there was a gap in power between Naruto and Kaguya that was closed by Naruto becoming faster, right?
What explanation is there for Naruto becoming faster? Like, what do you believe caused him to become faster?
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Yeah when it’s more like Kaguya got slower
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Dude yes, I understand your argument and I agree. I am just trying to establish his claim exactly, since he does not always communicate very clearly.
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Ik lmao
relax
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With vacuum fists which dismantle chakra, that’s not purely AP.
Dodging Sasuke isn’t heavily outspeeding. Naruto could also simply by slightly faster than Sasuke too.
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Okay, then I will make my stance very concrete. I do not agree at all with assuming Naruto had an ad-hoc power-up just from battling by reverse scaling from the assumption that Kaguya is much faster than Madara and that each of Madara's chakra boosts led to a speed amp and Kaguya has more chakra and is therefore faster.
The relationship between chakra and speed is fairly fuzzy at best. It is not a guarantee that a person with more chakra is also faster, and it is not a guarantee that getting a chakra boost leads to a considerable speed increase. Nothing in the story signals to us that Naruto got faster, we're just assuming that to patch a hole in the fact that they all fought basically the same version of Naruto with comparable speed.
I think we've said all that can be said on the matter, it's basically circular at this point, but for my part I definitely can't cosign that assumption.
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To me looks like Kaguya is just overpowering Sasuke. That’s not Kaguya getting blitzed, she didn’t even attempt to dodge, and at best Naruto was temporarily mental amped from the obito comments
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- #134
sasuke couldent react to it, thats the entire point, so your telling me that kaguya just sat there just because... mental amped in that instance or not naruto was keeping up with her to an extent throught out their whole fight. sasuke couldent do anything to her the whole time, naruto could. Naruto > sasuke. its not hard to understand
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Bro Naruto keeping up with Kaguya after she starts using the realm shifts doesn’t matter
they massively drain Kaguya’s chakra. Like it’s not crazy that Naruto is able to keep up with a Kaguya that’s slower than the one that outsped him.And yes I am implying Kaguya just took the attack, not for no reason, but because she didn’t expect Naruto to be that strong, since pre mental amp he didn’t do any major damage to her.
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- #136
it doesent matter if hopping dimseions drains chakra, after hoping like twice after that she still outspeeds sasuke. naruto kept up with a kaguya who had more chakra in the ice and lava dimseions before that so this point is moot. its clear that Naruto > sasukeBro Naruto keeping up with Kaguya after she starts using the realm shifts doesn’t matter
you have no proof for this claim
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My proof is what we literally see happen.
Cool Naruto can be faster than Sasuke. That just means 2.11c is faster than Sasuke. SPSM Naruto is the one with the feat anyway.
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Ight
Didn’t naruto toss her into an ice mountain? Ik it was through boil release but that should still be enough of a sign to not just tank an attack like that
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Naruto overpowering Kaguya with a massive amp says nothing about his base stats.
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- #140
Your saying she decided to just take the attack which is headcanon
At this point yes naruto is faster than sasuke but he scales to that 2.11c earlier naruto who fought 1 eyed madara, because they kept up with each other, especially with a chidori amp the makes you faster. Kaguya was putting sasuke in the dirt the whole time even after she dimension hopped multiple times, naruto reacts and keeps up with kaguya through most of the fight meaning he's showing better feats than sasuke who scaled to an earlier naruto, meaning naruto got faster than he was previously. It's not rocket science
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I think both sides viewpoints have been made clear to an excruciating degree. There is likely no chance whatosever of either of you convincing the other, and the basic premise of the disagreement isn't hard to understand. I believe we should wait for more staff input rather than continuing to clog up the thread with this argument, as it will dissuade anyone else from getting involved.
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- #142
What is so hard to understand about naruto keeping up with someone who's much faster than sasuke
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- #144
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I know. I’m saying from her point of view is choosing to tank Naruto’s attack because she’s unaware of his strength really that plausible when he previously sent her flying?
Just saw deagons reply. I’ll chill and wait for staff then
Godernet
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Just wanted to remind ppl we don’t have Post Hags Base Nard or SPSM Nard on Nards EoS key. His Part 2 key honestly needs a lot of work before we add more stuff.
So I disagree with Base Naruto scaling to 2.11c off of the FTL feat his stronger form performed in the war. This would make the scaling needlessly circular and it doesn’t even make sense for him to be based on current ratings.
Also yes Kaguya is faster than Madara but not by a huge enough margin to matter tbh. Madara when he had both rinnegan was an equal to SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. We see this with how he and his Limbos could handle attacks from them that previously blitzed him when he has one Rinnegan.
her significant power advantage + dimension hopping is why they needed to make all these elaborate strategies to tag her simultaneously.
by the time of their first clash in ch 680, Naruto was already able to keep up with her in speed but was over powered.
Also, her dodging Sasukes Chidori was not a blitz. The context of the scene is they’re all being pinned down in the Gravity dimension, even Kaguya, Sasuke teleports in front of her while still under the affects of the increased gravity, so she dimension swaps bringing the gravity back to normal and flys away at full speed before Sasukes chidori could reach her.
Pre ETSO Kaguya is at best unquantifiably but not significantly faster than Nard and Sauce.
And using a clash to say they’re completely equal means that SPSM and KCM are irrelevant as speed amps which we know is not true.
giving the same rating to a form slower than the form that made the feat, when any feat that could suggest him having gotten faster than before during Kaguya is questionable at best and just doesn’t work
that’s why I’m suggested the SOL downscale since he can keep up with a regular strike from Sasuke but is still inferior to his faster forms. Being SOL doesn’t mean you can’t keep up with someone who is FTL
So I disagree with Base Naruto scaling to 2.11c off of the FTL feat his stronger form performed in the war. This would make the scaling needlessly circular and it doesn’t even make sense for him to be based on current ratings.
Also yes Kaguya is faster than Madara but not by a huge enough margin to matter tbh. Madara when he had both rinnegan was an equal to SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. We see this with how he and his Limbos could handle attacks from them that previously blitzed him when he has one Rinnegan.
her significant power advantage + dimension hopping is why they needed to make all these elaborate strategies to tag her simultaneously.
by the time of their first clash in ch 680, Naruto was already able to keep up with her in speed but was over powered.
Also, her dodging Sasukes Chidori was not a blitz. The context of the scene is they’re all being pinned down in the Gravity dimension, even Kaguya, Sasuke teleports in front of her while still under the affects of the increased gravity, so she dimension swaps bringing the gravity back to normal and flys away at full speed before Sasukes chidori could reach her.
Pre ETSO Kaguya is at best unquantifiably but not significantly faster than Nard and Sauce.
And using a clash to say they’re completely equal means that SPSM and KCM are irrelevant as speed amps which we know is not true.
giving the same rating to a form slower than the form that made the feat, when any feat that could suggest him having gotten faster than before during Kaguya is questionable at best and just doesn’t work
that’s why I’m suggested the SOL downscale since he can keep up with a regular strike from Sasuke but is still inferior to his faster forms. Being SOL doesn’t mean you can’t keep up with someone who is FTL
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- #148
I mostly agree with this so for the sake of it Fine we can downscale to sol
Ik we don't have a key for him, but it's just to give the last hinata, bsm naruto and toneri FTL stuff
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Godernet
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We can fight over that a different day
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- #151
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- #152
For the purpose of this thread are you fine with Naruto being sol
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- #153
Also arc brought this up earlier but is sol and baseline FTL going to be the same thing?
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Yeah I'm not trying to upend the Light Fang scaling or others. Speed, across the wiki, is one of the most wankable stats and nearly every verse seems to have some crazy scaling, like I also fully disagree with lightning Avatar-verse, relativistic MCU, et cetera. I just have accepted I won't win that battle with the full culture of VSBW.
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I disagree with you but thats a fine take to have.
its funny though that people care so much about speed when its prob the worst stat in most versus matches
Ped2018
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- #158
Fair enough
Godernet
He/Him- 2,750
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Average Death Battle enthusiast
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- #160
Damage I assume your also fine with the sol/ baseline FTL ?
( whatever tf that means)
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