Regarding the Sub-Rel Minato calc

[Jobbo]

@ShrekAlmighty
Most of DB characters were scaled from Goku and got 3A, MFTL++++ when they never showed something even near(High 4C at max).No one had the problem there.

For 2 years everyone including Base Goku was considered 4-B and below, it took a lot of scaling and new feats for that to be accepted.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

@Dzhin

As jobbo said

One feat to upgrade most of the verse and contradict all other feats isnt good enough

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Jobbo

Bruh,everyone was upgraded to 3A cause they can keep up with Goku,there was no new feats.Only 1 feat puts the Whole DB in 3A(Goku vs Beerus),everything else is powerscaling.

"One feat to upgrade most of the verse and contradict all other feats isnt good enough"

That is what DB did.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Before any calc or discussion is done, a new speed has to be found for the Raikage given that the Databook doesn't say lightning speed anywhere. Also the section about the Lightning Chakra Armor that the Raikage uses doesn't mention a travel speed increase, it specifies combat/reaction speed with a strength and durability increase:

"Raiton Chakra collects on the body, it's a body invigoration ninjutsu. From inside the body lightning gushes out, the speed of ones nerve transmissions rises. The body is wrapped in lightning, the jutsu durability is like that of armor. The Raikages' application of it causes their combat power to rise considerably." "It managed to chase Naruto's Bijuu Chakra Mode, however it was inferior to the great speed of the Yellow-Flash"

The raw for proof: https://imgur.com/JJtjxRQ

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Yes but there is a few years of time skip where characters could have trained where as in naruto the whole plot lasts rougly 3 years(from start of naruto to end of Shippuden)

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Characters could have trained and suddenly jumped from 4C to 3A?Nope.

Also,there was no time skip after Beerus's arc.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Ay should at least scale from Kirin's speed as he escaped MS Sasuke's perception with his top Speed. Sasuke's perception is Better than Itachi's at the time Itachi blocked Kirin.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I would ask that you people not discuss the power-scaling of another verse here. DBS is going to go through a revision anyway once it goes on hiatus.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Is there any objection to scaling Ay from Kirin's Speed for Blitzing MS Sasuke?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

no

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

We can't properly scale A from Kirin's speed to be lightning speed since the speed of Kirin is different than the lightning speed used on the board. Kirin can travel from the cloud to the ground in 1/1000th of a second. Assuming a low end altitude of 200 meters for cumulonimbus clouds gives a speed of Mach 583. Also, where does it say Sasuke's reactions are better than Itachi's? There are no feats to prove this, so it's a baseless claim unless you have a statement. Or are you power-scaling despite no feat relation?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

EMS>MS

 

[Jobbo]

Sasuke didn't have the EMS when he faced A, and there's nothing placing him at Itachi's level.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

We can't properly scale A from Kirin's speed to be lightning speed since the speed of Kirin is different than the lightning speed used on the board. Kirin can travel from the cloud to the ground in 1/1000th of a second. Assuming a low end altitude of 200 meters for cumulonimbus clouds gives a speed of Mach 583. Also, where does it say Sasuke's reactions are better than Itachi's? There are no feats to prove this, so it's a baseless claim unless you have a statement. Or are you power-scaling despite no feat relation?

It's an assumption, sure, but it's not baseless. Itachi was more blind than MS Sasuke ever was at the start of their match. Then he spammed big techs that make the eyes go blind faster.

Itachi was so blind that using Susanoo once to block Kirin made him 100% Blind. MS Sasuke's perception was vastly better than Itachi's at the Gokage Summit. He didn't reach Itachi's level of blindness until after he ranted at Kakashi and used Complete Susanoo.

I understand it's fiction, but in this case still, Sasuke is likely to be able to react to faster things than his brother based on not being blind. Their reaction speed also heavily rely on Shsringan snd Itachi's was heavily impaired.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Going blind doesn't mean anything. The feats aren't the same for them. Itachi had the Mangekyo and years of experience with it. Sasuke has his Mangekyo freshly new and immediately went blind from spamming it. Just cause they both had Mangekyo does not mean they are equivalent, their feats determine that. Just cause Itachi was going blind does not mean Sasuke had faster reactions. It only means Sasuke could see better.

 

[Omimi]

There are no feats to prove this, so it's a baseless claim unless you have a statement. Or are you power-scaling despite no feat relation?

u think near blind itach perception > ms Sasuke's perception

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

u think near blind itach perception > ms Sasuke's perception

I know MS Itachi's reaction feats > MS Sasuke's reaction feats.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

About Kirin, I think Kep mentioned once that using the low end cumulonimbus which is 2000m, and subtracting it from a mountain height (I think either 800m or 600m based on a calc done by both him and Lina), Kirin's speed would be high end MHS+ or so.

But looking at Wikipedia, it says it ranges from 200m to 4000m so 2000m was likely a mistake on his part.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Soldier Blue

"I would ask that you people not discuss the power-scaling of another verse here. DBS is going to go through a revision anyway once it goes on hiatus."

I brought DB as an example here.

 

[Zensum]

Yes MS Itachi's reactions are better than MS Sasukes...

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

To further the point of Itachi being superior to Sasuke, recall that both Itachi and Sasuke fought Killer Bee. Itachi was able to contend and keep up with Killer Bee using his Seven Swords Style.

Sasuke almost died against Killer Bee while struggling to keep up and would have died were it not for Suigetsu, Jugo and Karin.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Going blind doesn't mean anything. The feats aren't the same for them. Itachi had the Mangekyo and years of experience with it. Sasuke has his Mangekyo freshly new and immediately went blind from spamming it. Just cause they both had Mangekyo does not mean they are equivalent, their feats determine that. Just cause Itachi was going blind does not mean Sasuke had faster reactions. It only means Sasuke could see better.

@Bold

I'm not gonna respond to anything beyond this as you are downplaying a significant fundamentality of Sharingan.

Uchiha rely on Sharingan for all their speed related feats. It sharpens their movements, allow them to track fast moving objects, Precog things, etc.

Your argument is faulty based on the bolded alone. A blind Sharingan cant do any of that. An impaired Sharingan loses it's ability to do so effectively. But peep this:

• MS Sasuke can keep up with v1 Raikage

• v1 Raikage can keep up KCM Naruto

• MS Itachi can keep up with KCM Naruto

Note: Edo Itachi was brought back in a better form than when he died (I.E. Unblind Sharingan)

So, MS Sasuke has feats of fighting a character comparable in Speed to KCM Naruto and an Itachi without the handicaps he had also could.

So, MS Sasuke actually is comparable to MS Itachi in speed based on feats.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

In fact, v1 Raikage couldn't surprise or Blitz MS Sasuke until he went v2. Meaning MS Sasuke's reaction speed far surpasses v1 Raikage's Speed. Meaning, like Itachi, MS Sasuke would be able to keep up with KCM Naruto, at least for awhile as KCM Naruto doesn't fight at v2 Raikages speed on average.

 

[Kepekley23]

If that really is Minato's nose, this being an outlier isn't even worthy discussing. No feat in Naruto comes even close to SoL.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

If that really is Minato's nose, this being an outlier isn't even worthy discussing. No feat in Naruto comes even close to SoL.

It's agreed thar Minato reacting happens in the first panel as Minato throws the Kunai in his hand up. So, basically, you calced the wrong panel.

 

[Kepekley23]

That lowers the feat substantially, though

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Itachi went blind after Kirin, he was still capable of seeing and reacting. You are acting as if he could not see and could not react which is clearly not the case when his reaction speed feats are superior to MS Sasuke

>MS Sasuke can keep up with v1 Raikage

>V1 Raikage can keep up KCM Naruto

>MS Itachi can keep up with KCM Naruto

This entire scaling is false.

MS Sasuke could react and contend with the Raikage, but V2 Raikage did go FTE to MS Sasuke and he struggled against him. So Sharingan Sasuke had the combat and reactions to contend with him, but not the travel speed while MS Sasuke struggled on all accounts.

V1 Raikage was superior to KCM Naruto as this Naruto could not get the upper hand at all and was unable to surpass the Raikage while the Raikage could easily catch up and stop him. However, KCM Naruto then surpasses his limits and is shown to be faster than V2 Raikage. So KCM > V2.

After this, KCM Naruto fights Itachi. Itachi using just the Sharingan was able to keep up and contend with a KCM Naruto that was now superior to a V2 Raikage. So yes, even regular Sharingan Itachi has superior speed feats to MS Sasuke as Sharingan Itachi scales to someone faster than V2 Raikage and V2 Raikage was too much for MS Sasuke.

So Itachi's combat/reaction speed > MS Sasuke's combat/reaction speed.

 

[Kepekley23]

• Minato's head = 73px = 0.2389333333m

• Distance = 22px = 0.07200730593m

• Minato's reactions = 163.652968 nanoseconds (Sub-Relativistic)

This is consistent with Madara's speed feat, so they will go back to Sub-Rel

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The Raikage isn't lightning speed though, Kep. You were using a mistranslated quote.

 

[Zensum]

Edos are stated and demonstratively shown to be summoned weaker then their real life counter parts to various degrees depending on user (tobi,oro, kabuto). In Itachis case his edo form seems more impressive because he is without the limitations of his sickness and has a lasting chakra pool. Otherwise his stats and attacks are qualitively inferior then when he was alive, and yet he was still able to outpace killer b. While MS sasuke struggled and woulda lost without help.

 

[DodoNova2]

it would be better to clarify the thing about "speed of lightning"? it is the most important

 

[Omimi]

The Raikage isn't lightning speed though, Kep. You were using a mistranslated quote.

Calculations & feats all support this rating, with a slower character moving exactly at Mach 1277, just 16 Mach shy of lightning(kep already comment on this on his blog)

 

[ShieldsPlus]

I am in agreement with IMadeThis regarding this subject. An object that radiates lightning does not automatically guarantee that said object/character moves at the exact speed of lightning.

Since a mistranslated quote was used to figure out the calculation, a correctly translated quote that states Raikage is able to move at the speed of lightning itself should be found, and then used.

But then this would also lead to other issues, considering that if stuff from the databooks is being used, the light fang feat should be considered valid as well, since a description of that feat is directly from the databook itself.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I've looked through the databook and every page that mentions the Third or Fourth Raikage mentions nothing of the speed of lightning. They all say the same thing: "Wearing lightning to increase speed."

The databooks can not be a source for the Raikages as there is nothing there for them regarding a number to speed.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Raikage is vastly faster than most characters who scale to Mach 1200+. We can easily and fairly assume that Raikage is lightning fast based on that in v1 alone.

Would it be calc stacking though if we tried to calc Minato's speed here with it as a calc puts the characters who scale to Mach 1200+ who Raikage is faster than?

 

[BlackeJan]

If that really is Minato's nose, this being an outlier isn't even worthy discussing. No feat in Naruto comes even close to SoL.

What about Minato throwing the kunai that was in his hand?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I'm not saying Itachi couldn't see or react, I'm saying Itachi's Perception while doing isn't as good as MS Sasuke's when fighting Raikage.

The comparison is also just that. To show comparability between Itachi and Sasuke. Itachi was last Blind when he was alive. Thus, Kabuto had to have revived Itachi to some point before He went completely blind. Sasuke kept up with v1 Ay who can keep up with KCM Naruto, who Itachi is capable of keeping up with. This itachi possibly has better Perception than when he blocked Kirin and Sasuke is already shown comparable through the characters they've fought.

 

[AstralKing7]

naruto did replicate the feat from A later on in the manga, I almost forgot about it. He speed blitzed Kaguya but i dont know if its considered a outlier

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

>Sasuke kept up with v1 Ay who can keep up with KCM Naruto, who Itachi is capable of keeping up with.

Again, this is why you are wrong. Sasuke kept up with V1 A but was incomparable to V2 A. KCM Naruto initially was on par with V1 A but then surpassed V2 A. So KCM Naruto > V2 A > V1 A ~= MS Sasuke.

Then we see Sharingan Itachi keeping up with this KCM Naruto who we know is already superior to V2 A. So Itachi scales to someone who was faster than V2 A and V2 A was faster than MS Sasuke. You can not in no good reason say MS Sasuke is comparable to even regular Itachi based of their feats and performance.

Edit: But yes, it would be calc stacking to use calcs of another's speed to compare to the Raikage and then use that calc and scaled speed to further calc for this feat of Minato's reactions.

 

[Kepekley23]

But then this would also lead to other issues, considering that if stuff from the databooks is being used, the light fang feat should be considered valid as well, since a description of that feat is directly from the databook itself.

Pure non-sequitur. Light Fang is debunked by the databook itself since it's a contradictory claim.

I'd appreciate it if people stopped sneaking Light Fang in every Naruto thread. Thanks.