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Regarding the Sub-Rel Minato calc

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Who said Naruto using his max speed against Itachi? They were talking to each other their whole fight -is it even a fight?- so they never go all out. I really don't understand why people assuming such things.
 
Saying itachi has better perception than sasuke is idiotic at least dying itachi prime itachi i wont go there.this is for a few reasons

Sharingan loses its light with extensive use meaning more its used the weaker it becomes A brand new MS should be far above a Barely active MS

Sasuke can use all of itachis abilities on his level or greater(He can manipulate Amaterasu with far higher proficiency than itachi while being equal to him in other abilities)

Sasuke was able to counter Itachis Tsukuyomi and other genjutsu without MS

Itachi awakened sasukes sharingan and gave his abilities to him
 
Heck when Itachi reacted he had only one MS

and its been stated multiple times that true power of dojutsu is unlocked when both eyes unite
 
Kepekley23 said:
* Minato's head = 73px = 0.2389333333m
  • Distance = 22px = 0.07200730593m
  • Minato's reactions = 163.652968 nanoseconds (Sub-Relativistic)
This is consistent with Madara's speed feat, so they will go back to Sub-Rel
Click to expand...
Can you include the pic with this pls
 
This seems to be a case of bad translation.

I think we shouldn't be using lightning speed then.
 
Itachi is able to fake his expression perfectly as he fake several of his expressions when they use genjutsu against each other. Tsukuyomi is about time perception and we know Itachi don't go full power against Sasuke because he didn't want to kill him if Itachi wanted kill Sasuke or severely harm him he is capable of doing it as Itachi kill Izumi with only using Tsukuyomi. Also Sasuke activated second level of his cursed seal.
 
Breaking Out Of Tsukuyomi even if you can is useless, once you are inside it for even the smallest fraction of a second you are dead.
 
@Shrek Its never stated the MS becomes weaker gradually with blindness. It just says with continued use they eventually go blind and are sealed.


Sauske can't use all of itachi abilties. Their eyes give them 2 abilties. He has Enton/Kagutsuchi (What he uses to control Amataerasu) and Amatarasu and Itachi has Tsukuyomi and Amatarasu.

Context wise unlikely everytime he used it he wasnt trying to kill the enemy. It was said he wasnt trying to kill sasuke in that fight if so he woulda been dead. Tsukuyomi potency can be changed like against kakashi which just comatosed him (even kisame was wondering how he survived) and in the novel where he was using it with killing intent.

I assume u mean EMS by awakaned. He still does not have itachi's abilties
 
Whis sure i know im just stating he did it as to prove he is at least comparable to dying itachi in eye prowess

@Zensum

By awakened i mean when he tapped his forehead he transfered Ms to him similarly how shisui did it to itachi

there are other arguments that have yet to be debunked
 
I agree that MS Sasuke is somewhat comparable to dying Itachi though. But he didn't ever break out of Tsukuyomi.
 
Who and where did this notion that using the MS makes you weaker? You slowly lose your vision yes, but you do not use your MS abilities. Madara while blind could use his Susano'o, Itachi while blind could use his Susano'o. They have the same stats still, just loss of sight. Itachi with blurry vision was able to counter Kirin, something Sasuke has no feat comparable to. Itachi with regular vision and regular Sharingan was going H2H with KCM Naruto. The same KCM Naruto that was faster than V2 Raikage. The same V2 Raikage that went FTE to MS Sasuke.

They're not comparable.
 
ShrekAlmighty said:
@Zensum By awakened i mean when he tapped his forehead he transfered Ms to him similarly how shisui did it to itachi
Click to expand...
He tapped his forhead and delivered an transcirption seal. Which was trigger for amataerasu when he saw tobi. Shisui just gave itachi his eye which is how he can use koto.
 
It was said multiple times that having both eyes makes the dojutsu far stronger

KCM naruto that is not serious also that is prime itachi im talking about dying itachi

Sasuke fought and dodged a lunge from V1 killer bee who fought that same itachi

they are comparable
 
TheFinalOrder said:
Raikage is vastly faster than most characters who scale to Mach 1200+. We can easily and fairly assume that Raikage is lightning fast based on that in v1 alone.
Click to expand...
You can't use that in a calc it will be calc stacking. I remeber Dariel or Dodo calcing this feat where they used the speed of A that we had back than and it was rejected by multiple calc members because of stacking. If the Databooks says that he isn't moving at the speed of lighning then this whole calc is invalid.
 
ShrekAlmighty said:
It was said multiple times that having both eyes makes the dojutsu far stronger
KCM naruto that is not serious also that is prime itachi im talking about dying itachi

Sasuke fought and dodged a lunge from V1 killer bee who fought that same itachi

they are comparable
Click to expand...
Yes the EMS Dojutsu is superior to MS. Edo itachi is weaker then dying itachi he just isnt sick so it looks more impresive. Sasuke was getting outclassed by Bee and Edo Itachi was keeping up with naruto and bee simutaneously without much effort.
 
@ShrekAlmighty

He go into base form because he overtaxed cursed seal chakra and probably himself. If he wanted Itachi able to 1-shot Sasuke with his Tsukuyomi.

Itachi only used fire style and genjutsu against Base Bee. You can't compare their fight.

Naruto-1569320
Naruto-8347
 
>It was said multiple times that having both eyes makes the dojutsu far stronger

It makes the abilities stronger and grants access to more abilities. With Itachi, one eye grants Tsukiyomi, the other grants Amaterasu, both together give access to Susano'o. Nothing about reactions, that'd be your assumption.

>KCM naruto that is not serious also that is prime itachi im talking about dying itachi

Dying Itachi doesn't have lesser stats. It's his stamina and endurance that weakens. Also, why would KCM Naruto not be serious, this is an actual fight to the death since Pain and Itachi have no control over themselves while Naruto needs to hurry?

>Sasuke fought and dodged a lunge from V1 killer bee who fought that same itachi

Sasuke also was nearly killed by Bee using Seven Sword Style despite Sasuke having Karin, Jugo and Suigetsu. Itachi was fine against Bee using Seven Sword Style. Also, Itachi has a moment of fighting KCM Naruto and still dodging Bee in the fight and evading them.

They're not comparable.
 
LordWhis said:
My personal opinion was that it was Itachi who was casual during the fight with KCM Naruto and Bee.
Click to expand...
Then a regular Sharingan Itachi is beyond the capabilities of an MS Sasuke to the point this whole thread should be closed as there is nothing to scale or discuss regarding the Raikage's speed. No point in it as the databook quote was wrong and you can't scale Raikage to Kirin which is already sub-lightning speed.
 
LordWhis said:
My personal opinion was that it was Itachi who was casual during the fight with KCM Naruto and Bee.
Click to expand...
Itachi wasnt casual. He had no control over his level of leathality. Kabuto set the edos to kill.
 
1 eye gives u all the abilities heck sasuke had all abilities with one rinnegan

same with obito and madara

You are the one thats assuming when there are literal statements that prove 2 eyes are far more powerful than 1

He has lesser stats even zetsu states how itachi is slower than usually

Kcm was casually talking with itachi the whole fight

Indeed but Bee also had naruto and knew all the attack that were coming as itachi was saying what he was gonna do not to mention this is prime itachi that has help from Nagato

they are comparable
 
why hasnt sasuke ever used used itachis genjutsu then since he has his eyes?? sasuke also was nearly kill by bee in his tailed beast cloak which is stronger than A right?? Sasuke was also able to read kill bees movements in this form with MS even thought this killer bee is stronger than A.
 
back to business whats gonna happen with the speed revisions and stuff cause one side has Kep who calced it to be sub rel while your side says we cant use the feat
 
It derailed because the quote is a mistranslation, the Raikage isn't stated to be lightning speed. Those in favor of sub-rel Minato then tried scaling the Raikage's speed to Sasuke's Kirin (even though Kirin is lightning, Zetsu explicitly states it to be slower than the lightning used on the board) since the lightning quote is false. So the argument has become comparing Itachi's Sharingan reaction to Sasuke's. There was also the bringing of scaling the Raikage to Pain who has a calc'd feat of Mach 1200+. I must question though, this would be hard calc stacking and indirect scaling of the Raikage to Pain. Fallacious on many levels. The discussion seems over at this point however.
 
It would be better if discussions like this were kept for calc group members only (along with DontTalkDT and Kaltias).
 
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