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Based on the title, I'm sure some of you can tell that this will be a thread going over the validity of a "light speed" Raikage statement given to us by a Databook.
This was previously gone over in a separate thread back in 2021 where it was declined for a couple of reasons I want to touch on today.
As far as I can tell from this thread listed above the main reasons for the statement having been declined were differing opinions on interpretations, another conflicting Naruto Speed CRT going on at the time, and some that believed this was an outlier or that it would lead to inconsistent scaling.
- The Different Interpretations of the Statement.
The Statement in question:
光の如きスピードで突進しながら
Rushing forward with the speed of light.
I'll be using an excerpt from the previous thread by Cyberblader90 here:
“Used to describe something that is like something else but isn’t actually” aka simile
The "goto" set of adverb/adjectives is used to call something something else as simile, for example "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" he isn't actually floating like a butterfly or stinging with his ass he's merely light on his feat and strong with his jabs
when it says "light-like" with "goto" it is the same premise
"he moves like light, but he's not actually moving the same as light" all it means is "similar to how light is perceived as super fast, the Raikage is also super fast" it is not saying "Raikage moves at light speed"
it's a phrase that doesn't convey its meaning well in English
I would like to give however an alternative take:
gotoki doesn't always imply that the comparison is non-literal, but it can be used that way
It's the noun-modifying form of gotoshi, which is used to indicate similarity
Ka is か or カ
https://sgp1.digitaloceanspaces.com/proletarian-library/books/1128c6eebeaace3439a924f7ceea5738.pdf
To make an argument for the statement still being usable though, there are two interpretations of it. That the sentence is comparing his speed to light literally (which from the looks of things, the word can be used for), or that it's a simile and is comparing his speed to light non-literally. However, if we're saying the Mifune statement is still fine, then it would be consistent for him to actually be on that level of speed. So with other contexts supporting it, it might be fair to interpret it as a literal comparison.
For example, one of the example sentences where it's used is "She is like Mona Lisa, always smiling."
Which isn't non-literal or anything, so the word can be used either way.
From what I gather there are a couple of ways to look at this Statement.
Version 1: The statement is non-literal and the Raikage can't move at near-light speeds
Version 2: The Statement is to be taken completely literally.
Version 3: Near Light Speed Raikage is literal and the figure of speech comes from him being compared to actual light.
IMO using any of these in isolation would be rather disingenuous to other interpretations as it requires us to assume we know what the author was intending with the statement and assume that one of these interpretations holds more weight than the others which is again disingenuous.
To dissect the validity of the statement I'll be going over which is most consistent with the Source Material.
- Is this an outlier or at all contradicted by the manga?
No, in fact, I believe it is incredibly consistent with the way characters on the Raikage's level of speed are presented, but let's go over some counterpoints from the previous thread and from what I've seen other people say.
"Why use this over a Lightning Speed Raikage?"
The Raikage only being lightning speed would be more contradictory to his lore than him being light speed.
We know due to the manga that a younger Kakashi could cut lightning before it hit the ground.
Guy makes this statement with full confidence in Kakashi's ability to perform feats like this and being someone who knows Kakashi's capabilities better than likely anybody in the series due to being his rival and someone who studies Kakashi's combat proficiency constantly in order to surpass him.
We even have a calc'd feat from an early Shippuden Kakashi intercepting Kakazu's lightning.
In short, the Raikage has too many statements of being far faster than people who are faster than Kakashi to be just the Standard speed of Lightning.
As for the consistency of Near Light Speed or Light Speed Raikage, we learn in Naruto chapter 529 that a Cloud Shinobi named Mabui has a transportation jutsu called the Heavenly Transfer Jutsu(or Ethereal Transmission) that is capable of moving things at light speeds as stated in the Manga.
In chapter 562, The Cloud Shinobi who uses the Jutsu explains that if a person uses this Jutsu they should be torn apart by the massive speeds and she believes that the 4th Raikage is the only person present that could survive said speeds is the 4th Raikage(and the deceased 3rd Raikage.)
After the Jutsu is used not only does it work but the Raikage(who did this in his base form) looks practically uninjured and immediately starts fighting.
This shows us that Ay's body can handle light-speed movement.
"Why is the Light Fang special if several people have relative speed to it?"
The Light Fang in both Anime and Manga is never portrayed as a particularly special Jutsu. Madara uses it in a close-quarters situation one time to try tagging Naruto while he is blocking Limbo. Not only do Naruto and Sasuke never make note that the Jutsu was particularly fast or even mention it at all. Madara never even attempts to use it again despite it being his only Projectile Jutsu that requires no hand signs or even hands. The only thing that even makes this Jutsu special in our eyes is that it has a clearly defined speed given by WOG which is a rarity for most Jutsu in Naruto.
In short, Light Fang should not be used to Gatekeep prior Jutsu from being Lightspeed.
"Why didn't the Raikage just run to the battlefield if he's relative to light speed?"
This is all referring to Combat Speeds, I think it's well established(and hopefully I don't have to spend time arguing this point) that Shinobi don't amp their travel speeds at anywhere near the same levels as their Combat/Short Distance Travel speeds.
It doesn't make sense narratively for there to be light-speed Jutsu in Naruto besides Light Fang/But Outlier tho???
I've heard this a lot but again nothing indicates Light Fang is special, and we have other Light speed Jutsu statements from both in Manga sources as well as WOG databooks: Haku's Mirrors, Mifune's Kyuubi Amp'd sword slash, the Heavenly Transfer Jutsu, as well as Kirin.
Smaller Points that I didn't want to focus on too much but add to the consistency of this.
- Mifune, a samurai who is very likely slower than the Raikage has a WOG statement that with a 1-tailed Kyuubi Cloak, his Issen sword slash projectiles move at light speed. We also see that other Jonin characters with Nine Tails Cloaks and Bee in his tailed beast state have attacks that can keep up with Mifune's SOL projectiles
- Darui, a member of the Raikage's personal guard uses Storm Release(Gale Style), the same Kekkai Genkai as the already accepted SOL Light Fang Jutsu. his Gale Style is shown to have several of the properties of light and is referred to several times as Beams/Light Rays.
- Ay states he is the fastest Shinobi since Minato, who he considered a rival and fought on several occasions. (Tsunade and Bee acknowledge Ay's statement and are shocked to see Naruto capable of competing with Ay's top speeds.), a revived Minato could react and move through a battle that contained 8th Gate Guy(who could warp space with his speed) and Six Paths Madara(the guy who should scale to his own Light Fang's SOL speeds and directly to SOSP Naruto who could dodge it.)
- Edo Madara was able to react and block an attack by the Raikage and Tsunade as they were arriving from being transported by the Light Speed Heavenly Transfer Jutsu.
Based on all of this information I have laid out I have a couple of different proposals.
(BTW These Proposals do use the fan terms for Ay's regular lightning cloak and his top speed as V1 and V2 respectively if that needs to be changed please let me know.)
Option 1: If votes are in favor of Ay's Lightning Chakra Cloak scaling to his Lariat: Massively Hypersonic+, Relativistic+ with V1, higher, possibly SOL with V2
(The reason for the possibly SOL is due to the near-light speed statement made for Lariat which is not his top speed this could also be applied as likely SOL with V2 if people are of the opinion that V2 is faster than the Lariat.)
Option 2: If votes are split and there is some room for different interpretations after we discuss this we can rate it as: at least Massively Hypersonic+, Sub-Relativistic, Possibly Relativistic+ with V1, higher, Possibly SOL with V2
(Option 2 leaves room for the possibly to be a likely if enough consistency is strong enough for it)
Option 3(The Arc Combo Meal): For those that believe Lariat should scale independently from V1(and possibly V2): at least Massively Hypersonic+, Sub-Relativistic with V1, higher with V2, Relativistic+ with Lariat(With room for possibly or likely based on consistency. (How V2 compares to Lariat can be discussed here or in a different thread.)
Option 4: We forget about this thread and go get some food, I'm thinking Mexican food.
I'm curious to see what you all think.
Agree: Testarossa002(Option 1), Halkum145(Option 3), emircaw(Option 1), RanaProGamer, Tdjwo(Option1), GokuSparkle(Option 1), SOULOFCINDERX(Option 1), LordTracer(Option 3), Milly_Rocking_Bandit(Option 1), GTsek(Option 3), , Greatsage13th, narutosage15(Option 1)
Neutral: Nierre, Deceived3596(Leaning Disagree)
Disagree: Damage3245(Willing to compromise with Option 3 if further staff input is also in agreement), Lynieryz, Shadowbokunohero, Arc7Kuroi
This was previously gone over in a separate thread back in 2021 where it was declined for a couple of reasons I want to touch on today.
As far as I can tell from this thread listed above the main reasons for the statement having been declined were differing opinions on interpretations, another conflicting Naruto Speed CRT going on at the time, and some that believed this was an outlier or that it would lead to inconsistent scaling.
- The Different Interpretations of the Statement.
The Statement in question:
光の如きスピードで突進しながら
Rushing forward with the speed of light.
I'll be using an excerpt from the previous thread by Cyberblader90 here:
“Used to describe something that is like something else but isn’t actually” aka simile
The "goto" set of adverb/adjectives is used to call something something else as simile, for example "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" he isn't actually floating like a butterfly or stinging with his ass he's merely light on his feat and strong with his jabs
when it says "light-like" with "goto" it is the same premise
"he moves like light, but he's not actually moving the same as light" all it means is "similar to how light is perceived as super fast, the Raikage is also super fast" it is not saying "Raikage moves at light speed"
it's a phrase that doesn't convey its meaning well in English
I would like to give however an alternative take:
gotoki doesn't always imply that the comparison is non-literal, but it can be used that way
It's the noun-modifying form of gotoshi, which is used to indicate similarity
Ka is か or カ
https://sgp1.digitaloceanspaces.com/proletarian-library/books/1128c6eebeaace3439a924f7ceea5738.pdf
To make an argument for the statement still being usable though, there are two interpretations of it. That the sentence is comparing his speed to light literally (which from the looks of things, the word can be used for), or that it's a simile and is comparing his speed to light non-literally. However, if we're saying the Mifune statement is still fine, then it would be consistent for him to actually be on that level of speed. So with other contexts supporting it, it might be fair to interpret it as a literal comparison.
For example, one of the example sentences where it's used is "She is like Mona Lisa, always smiling."
Which isn't non-literal or anything, so the word can be used either way.
From what I gather there are a couple of ways to look at this Statement.
Version 1: The statement is non-literal and the Raikage can't move at near-light speeds
Version 2: The Statement is to be taken completely literally.
Version 3: Near Light Speed Raikage is literal and the figure of speech comes from him being compared to actual light.
IMO using any of these in isolation would be rather disingenuous to other interpretations as it requires us to assume we know what the author was intending with the statement and assume that one of these interpretations holds more weight than the others which is again disingenuous.
To dissect the validity of the statement I'll be going over which is most consistent with the Source Material.
- Is this an outlier or at all contradicted by the manga?
No, in fact, I believe it is incredibly consistent with the way characters on the Raikage's level of speed are presented, but let's go over some counterpoints from the previous thread and from what I've seen other people say.
"Why use this over a Lightning Speed Raikage?"
The Raikage only being lightning speed would be more contradictory to his lore than him being light speed.
We know due to the manga that a younger Kakashi could cut lightning before it hit the ground.
Guy makes this statement with full confidence in Kakashi's ability to perform feats like this and being someone who knows Kakashi's capabilities better than likely anybody in the series due to being his rival and someone who studies Kakashi's combat proficiency constantly in order to surpass him.
We even have a calc'd feat from an early Shippuden Kakashi intercepting Kakazu's lightning.
In short, the Raikage has too many statements of being far faster than people who are faster than Kakashi to be just the Standard speed of Lightning.
As for the consistency of Near Light Speed or Light Speed Raikage, we learn in Naruto chapter 529 that a Cloud Shinobi named Mabui has a transportation jutsu called the Heavenly Transfer Jutsu(or Ethereal Transmission) that is capable of moving things at light speeds as stated in the Manga.
In chapter 562, The Cloud Shinobi who uses the Jutsu explains that if a person uses this Jutsu they should be torn apart by the massive speeds and she believes that the 4th Raikage is the only person present that could survive said speeds is the 4th Raikage(and the deceased 3rd Raikage.)
After the Jutsu is used not only does it work but the Raikage(who did this in his base form) looks practically uninjured and immediately starts fighting.
This shows us that Ay's body can handle light-speed movement.
"Why is the Light Fang special if several people have relative speed to it?"
The Light Fang in both Anime and Manga is never portrayed as a particularly special Jutsu. Madara uses it in a close-quarters situation one time to try tagging Naruto while he is blocking Limbo. Not only do Naruto and Sasuke never make note that the Jutsu was particularly fast or even mention it at all. Madara never even attempts to use it again despite it being his only Projectile Jutsu that requires no hand signs or even hands. The only thing that even makes this Jutsu special in our eyes is that it has a clearly defined speed given by WOG which is a rarity for most Jutsu in Naruto.
In short, Light Fang should not be used to Gatekeep prior Jutsu from being Lightspeed.
"Why didn't the Raikage just run to the battlefield if he's relative to light speed?"
This is all referring to Combat Speeds, I think it's well established
It doesn't make sense narratively for there to be light-speed Jutsu in Naruto besides Light Fang/But Outlier tho???
I've heard this a lot but again nothing indicates Light Fang is special, and we have other Light speed Jutsu statements from both in Manga sources as well as WOG databooks: Haku's Mirrors, Mifune's Kyuubi Amp'd sword slash, the Heavenly Transfer Jutsu, as well as Kirin.
Smaller Points that I didn't want to focus on too much but add to the consistency of this.
- Mifune, a samurai who is very likely slower than the Raikage has a WOG statement that with a 1-tailed Kyuubi Cloak, his Issen sword slash projectiles move at light speed. We also see that other Jonin characters with Nine Tails Cloaks and Bee in his tailed beast state have attacks that can keep up with Mifune's SOL projectiles
- Darui, a member of the Raikage's personal guard uses Storm Release(Gale Style), the same Kekkai Genkai as the already accepted SOL Light Fang Jutsu. his Gale Style is shown to have several of the properties of light and is referred to several times as Beams/Light Rays.
- Ay states he is the fastest Shinobi since Minato, who he considered a rival and fought on several occasions. (Tsunade and Bee acknowledge Ay's statement and are shocked to see Naruto capable of competing with Ay's top speeds.), a revived Minato could react and move through a battle that contained 8th Gate Guy(who could warp space with his speed) and Six Paths Madara(the guy who should scale to his own Light Fang's SOL speeds and directly to SOSP Naruto who could dodge it.)
- Edo Madara was able to react and block an attack by the Raikage and Tsunade as they were arriving from being transported by the Light Speed Heavenly Transfer Jutsu.
Based on all of this information I have laid out I have a couple of different proposals.
(BTW These Proposals do use the fan terms for Ay's regular lightning cloak and his top speed as V1 and V2 respectively if that needs to be changed please let me know.)
Option 1: If votes are in favor of Ay's Lightning Chakra Cloak scaling to his Lariat: Massively Hypersonic+, Relativistic+ with V1, higher, possibly SOL with V2
(The reason for the possibly SOL is due to the near-light speed statement made for Lariat which is not his top speed this could also be applied as likely SOL with V2 if people are of the opinion that V2 is faster than the Lariat.)
Option 2: If votes are split and there is some room for different interpretations after we discuss this we can rate it as: at least Massively Hypersonic+, Sub-Relativistic, Possibly Relativistic+ with V1, higher, Possibly SOL with V2
(Option 2 leaves room for the possibly to be a likely if enough consistency is strong enough for it)
Option 3(The Arc Combo Meal): For those that believe Lariat should scale independently from V1(and possibly V2): at least Massively Hypersonic+, Sub-Relativistic with V1, higher with V2, Relativistic+ with Lariat(With room for possibly or likely based on consistency. (How V2 compares to Lariat can be discussed here or in a different thread.)
I'm curious to see what you all think.
Agree: Testarossa002(Option 1), Halkum145(Option 3), emircaw(Option 1), RanaProGamer, Tdjwo(Option1), GokuSparkle(Option 1), SOULOFCINDERX(Option 1), LordTracer(Option 3), Milly_Rocking_Bandit(Option 1), GTsek(Option 3), , Greatsage13th, narutosage15(Option 1)
Neutral: Nierre, Deceived3596(Leaning Disagree)
Disagree: Damage3245(Willing to compromise with Option 3 if further staff input is also in agreement), Lynieryz, Shadowbokunohero, Arc7Kuroi
Last edited:
" this thread before stating my opinion.
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