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Rebirth Superman and World Forger Revision

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As I said earlier in the thread, in most circumstances 6-D destruction + an infinitely superior dimension statement is Low 1-C, but DC cosmology makes about as much sense as Elder Scrolls lore to a newbie

@Bobepipipiri etc etc is not a very good way to increase your counters, just lay out your counters constructively.
 
Antvasima said:
a multiverse filled with 52 universes
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Lois lane of the 6D said he has been creating countless universes.
Antvasima said:
In addition, it seems like Mister Mxyzptlk likely gave Superman a temporary amplification in order to work on a 6th-dimensional level,
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True.
Antvasima said:
Mxyzptlk powering him up to 1-A makes absolutely no sense though
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Mr mxyzptlk said no one can enter the 6D,only superman cause he had been infusing him with 5D energy and the rest of the justice league wont be able to survive there. (If I remember well even mr mxyzptlk stated he too can't go there)

And I think you can look at all the scans I sent when making these CRT,and talk it out with other knowledgeable staffs on detective comics E.g firestorm and any other you know off.
 
Anyway, I haven't read much of this event since I fell out with DC Comics but why do I have the nagging feeling that scaling Superman to the World Forger comes with a lot of issues?
 
Planck69 said:
Anyway, I haven't read much of this event since I fell out with DC Comics but why do I have the nagging feeling that scaling Superman to the World Forger comes with a lot of issues?
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Indeed its a massive tier gap, but we (at least me) are saying that Superman can scale because it was a amped version of Superman, its not a normal Superman, its a amped version, which can justify tier gaps (maybe not that high) but comics works like that, they have massive gaps, anyways, I guess its better to we wait more DC experts
 
Planck69 said:
Anyway, I haven't read much of this event since I fell out with DC Comics but why do I have the nagging feeling that scaling Superman to the World Forger comes with a lot of issues?
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It does. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that either Mxyzptlk or the sun dips could power him up to such an insane degree.

I would much rather that this thread stops drowning in uninformed biased spam, so the genuinely knowledgeable members get the time to properly analyse potential solutions, and I can do many other important tasks as well.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, there are two feats within that comic book story: Destroying
a multiverse filled with 52 universes (which essentially makes Superman into a much greater mass-murderer than Parallax Hal Jordan btw, so the writer really did not think through the implications of that feat), and punching out the World Forger in the 6th dimension.

One of these feats seem like 2-C to me, and the other would require 1-A, if our current ratings are true (which they are most likely not).

In addition, it seems like Mister Mxyzptlk likely gave Superman a temporary amplification in order to work on a 6th-dimensional level, similarly to how Boom Tubes work, in which case this feat had very little to do with Superman's own inherent power, and should possibly be ignored, but that would also create a massive backlash from many Marvel and DC Comics fanboys against this community, so I suppose that we would likely have to use an extra key for the external power-up in that case. Mxyzptlk powering him up to 1-A makes absolutely no sense though, so I would personally prefer the footnote explanation option, but am very open to suggestions from the knowledgeable members that I usually notify for these types of threads.
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@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer

I would greatly appreciate your help to figure out a workable solution here.
 
Does anyone scale to the Superman who performs the feat?

Is there a post arc statements where Superman notes he no longer that strong (or something to that effect)?

Is the true form of this World Forger guy actually 1-A? because his profile states he has "beyond dimensional existence" and the fact he's shown relative size to Superman (from what i could tell) would imply he was amped due to reaching that plain to begin with.
 
I hope that we will rescale the World Forger in a manner that makes much more sense eventually, but much of this is just superhero comic book writers having no ideas what they are doing in coherent powerscaling respects.
 
Sorry for not contribute anything but i have question, if this World Forger guy is truly 1-A, how Barbatos who is 2-A could slap him, i know this Forger guy have 2-A key but i doubt if his true state is 1-A Barbatos could not easily kill him or am i missing something, i'm not in touch much with superheroes comic like DC and Marvel
 
@Antvasima Mxy is barely “amping” him in the traditional sense, he’s just making him bigger, way bigger. Heck maybe the portal itself is doing that, sorta as a side effect of entering the realm.
 
I think
Kal Rb amp+sun dipped
should be like this
At least 2C (Destroy World Forger masterpeice multiverse that replaced regular 52/53 universes)
possibly/likely 2A (Knock out World Forger to the ground made him black eye and cuaghing blood.)
 
I don't see any issues with sun dips providing a boost of any magnitude. If that's the excuse the writers want to make for the massive boost, we have no reason not to take it as legitimate. (Until and unless we have some kind of inconsistency where comparable amounts of sun dips didn't provide him with a comparable boost.)

I personally find the feat to be contentious for other reasons. One where the editor said that the multiverse was already unstable and got destroyed as a side effect of Superman destroying the anvil. But whatever. I do agree with the arguments made against the 1-A stuff.
 
I have a question, why are we even giving Superman another key, despite it being a temporary power up that lasted just an issue or two? I remember the Venom thread where Ant said that we shouldn't give characters separate keys for temporary power ups.
 
Antvasima said:
I would greatly appreciate your help to figure out a workable solution here.
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I was a bit busy yesterday so I'll have to start reading over the story today to give my thoughts. Sorry for the wait.
Confluctor said:
I have a question, why are we even giving Superman another key, despite it being a temporary power up that lasted just an issue or two? I remember the Venom thread where Ant said that we shouldn't give characters separate keys for temporary power ups.
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Eh, I don't think that's a very fair comparison. Superman gets sundipped more than most other amps, and this is just the peak of his sundip.
 
AKM sama said:
I do agree with the arguments made against the 1-A stuff.
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I mean it's not really up to us, either he was in the sixth dimension and thus 1-A for being that big or he wasn't and thus would never scale to 1-A. Even if it's an outlier for Mxy to make him that big, it doesn't discredit what happened.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't think Mxy's portal was to the 6th Dimension. As far as memory in concerned the World Forger had taken control of Mxyzptlk at the time to help ensure that the old multiverse died so that he can replace it with his multiverse, and when he was controlling him he had Mxy send Superman to a dimension completely deprived of sunlight and basically starve him to death so he didn't stop his plans.
So if the question is if Mxy sent Superman to the 6th Dimension, then no that doesn't appear to be the case
 
Superman? He didn't, he never went there by Mxy because Mxyzptlk had tricked him and sent him to a dimension without a sunlight to deprive him by the orders of WF.
If it's for Mxy, I don't think he ever could go there if it's beyond his power
 
Oh ok, so the comic title in the OP is just misleading then? In that case Supes is probably fine where he is unless Jared has further arguments.
 
Why 1 Million, if I may ask? (Been a long time since I read that comic)
 
Okay, after reading through the comic, I agree with most of the others. Mxy's amp would only be a comprehension amp stopping him from going mad, and as others have pointed out, he didn't bring him to the 6th dimension, but rather a Galaxy with no sunlight. I also agree the feat doesn't happen within the 6th dimension, that's pretty much just the title of the comic. The only other evidence I could find is too vague. While Superman is said to be in a place "beyond everything", that could just mean outside of everything else, as a reference to the Galaxy he's in. The comic also mentions the 6th dimension while Superman is in the Galaxy, but this is just continuing how previous issues explained dimensions in the first few pages. Considering Alpheus would replace the current Multiverse with his, the feat should stay at 2-A, unless the Multiverse is downgraded to 2-C.

Also, real quick I'd like to touch up on Superman possibly scaling to Alpheus. While I get the whole "everyone can fight everyone in comics" thing, Alpheus himself thinks a sundipped Superman could kill him, and for that reason, he wants to move the suns away. So, it's not just Superman coming down and knocking him down, but something that Alpheus believed would even kill him. As well as this, considering in-Multiverse Alpheus is 2-A, it wouldn't be an outlier for this Superman to do so, since destroying the Multiverse should put him on a similar level. Although, I think the Anti-Monitor thread might downgrade Alpheus as well (correct me if I'm wrong), so this may just be a moot point.

TL;DR: In my opinion, Superman didn't destroy a 6th dimensional Multiverse, just one that's equal to one currently rated as 2-A, so the feat should stay at 2-A unless the Multiverse is upgraded or downgraded. Superman also isn't amped by anything aside from the suns, and can possibly scale off of in-Multiverse World Forger.

Edit: Whoops, I forgot to add this little bit supporting why it didn't take place in the 6th dimension. Alpheus brought Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman etc. into the 6th dimension with no problem. So basically, Mxy telling Superman only he could handle the 6th dimension due to Mxy's comprehension amp was just him getting the JL to believe only Superman could go there, and even Batman didn't need an amp to survive in the "6th dimension".
 
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Thank you for the analyses.

Ehnkr2beboh, would you be willing to insert a footnote explanation regarding the feat into Post-Rebirth Superman's page?
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you for the analyses.

Ehnkr2beboh, would you be willing to insert a footnote explanation regarding the feat into Post-Rebirth Superman's page?
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Sure, how's this:
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I don't think I've ever written a note for a page before, so if there's anything that needs to be fixed, please tell me.
 
I made some slight wording changes. How about this?
 
Ehnkr2beboh said:
While Superman is said to be in a place "beyond everything", that could just mean outside of everything else, as a reference to the Galaxy he's in. The comic also mentions the 6th dimension while Superman is in the Galaxy
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He literally says realm he's in is beyond everything, the 2nd scan you posted says 6th dimension is beyond everything,

İssue 19 is called "sixth dimension chapter 1"
issue 20 description from dc.comics.com
“The Sixth Dimension” part two! The Leaguers come face to face with their future selves in the Sixth Dimension and explore the path that lies before them. Meanwhile, Superman is trapped on a world with no light and hundreds of dead Supermen! Can the Man of Steel escape before his powers completely disappear? To do that, he’ll need to learn who captured him!
issues 19-25 is called "sixth dimension storyline"
entire setting of those issues are located in 6th dimension

The comic also mentions the 6th dimension while Superman is in the Galaxy
Click to expand...

the scan linked to this LİTERALLY says "oh superman, you ventured to 6th dimensions youre ****** up" It also says "a place where you see things you werent meant to see" which is exactly what's happening in the upper pannel

To summarise : superman gets teleported to a realm that was stated to be beyond everything, justice league volume 4 is called "sixth dimension" (issues19-25 which these all takes place in) and literally exist to explain how 6th d is beyond everything, he basically got teleported to somewhere in 6th d with no light, later amped himself with 6th d suns which is a 1A amp
 
OblivionSama said:
He literally says realm he's in is beyond everything, the 2nd scan you posted says 6th dimension is beyond everything,

İssue 19 is called "sixth dimension chapter 1"
issue 20 description from dc.comics.com
“The Sixth Dimension” part two! The Leaguers come face to face with their future selves in the Sixth Dimension and explore the path that lies before them. Meanwhile, Superman is trapped on a world with no light and hundreds of dead Supermen! Can the Man of Steel escape before his powers completely disappear? To do that, he’ll need to learn who captured him!
issues 19-25 is called "sixth dimension storyline"
entire setting of those issues are located in 6th dimension



the scan linked to this LİTERALLY says "oh superman, you ventured to 6th dimensions youre ****** up" It also says "a place where you see things you werent meant to see" which is exactly what's happening in the upper pannel

To summarise : superman gets teleported to a realm that was stated to be beyond everything, justice league volume 4 is called "sixth dimension" (issues19-25 which these all takes place in) and literally exist to explain how 6th d is beyond everything, he basically got teleported to somewhere in 6th d with no light, later amped himself with 6th d suns which is a 1A amp
Click to expand...
No offense but did you read what I said?
While Superman is said to be in a place "beyond everything", that could just mean outside of everything else, as a reference to the Galaxy he's in.
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Where Superman is located is away from the Justice League, with barely any sunlight. Beyond, as in away, from everything.
The comic also mentions the 6th dimension while Superman is in the Galaxy, but this is just continuing how previous issues explained dimensions in the first few pages.
Click to expand...
Again, the beginning of each comic is explaining dimensions, this one being no different. As well as that, it makes no sense for Superman to be using 6D suns. Alpheus brought Superman to a place to weaken him, why would he give Superman 1-A suns? Lastly, the comic being called "the 6th dimension" doesn't have to mean it took place there, the whole point was Alpheus lying to them. You also gave no counters to me pointing out how even someone like Batman traveled there with no sort of amp.
Antvasima said:
I made some slight wording changes. How about this?
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Sure that's fine with me. However, I'll have to be gone for the next few hours, so you can either unlock it now, or get someone else to do it later. However, it seems there are still some questions (which I'll also need a few hours to respond to), so it may be best to keep it open for the moment.
 
I will unlock the Superman profile page for you now. Tell me here when you are done.
 
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