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In today’s thread, I will be going over the powers of the two magical beings and some misconceptions.
Hecate and Upside Dowman are Magic itself:
It has been mentioned sometimes that Heacte was Magic. However, in some writings, she isn't. The origin of Magic began during the dawn of the Multiverse and the plane of possibilities formed into the Sphere of Gods which surrounded the Multiverse, in which the first magical inhabitant was Hecate. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
This makes sense since if we use Hecate and Magic interchangeably it wouldn't make sense. For example when the Otherkind was invading reality and the magic users used magic in a way that wasn't to Hecate liking. She wanted to revert it back to the primal state in which her Magic will replace the current reality order of Magic. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #56)
It doesn't make sense because well isn't she Magic itself? It's simply that people hadn't grasped this concept yet. If she was Magic itself, she shouldn't have to change it back. It should be to her “full control.” She has an opposite, a shadow reflection called the Upside Downman (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1) which tells us that she cannot be full magic if it were split into two. It's more so has to do with the fact she represents all light possibilities and Upside Downman all the dark twisted versions. (Justice League Vol.2 #18)
We know that she tries to return Magic back to its primitive state not tainted by the rules set in motion by Lords of Order and Chaos who wrote the first Books of Magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #2). At best, she was writing the rules of magic to fit her desire to return Magic back to the old time when it was raw, wild, and primitive. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #57)
Also while on the topic of her not being Magic. Why does she need to replace this current magic with her own? Why a need to write her own Books of Magic? This proves again she isn't Magic itself. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
She also took a piece of the Dark Multiverse giving the first Chaos Magic. Something she doesn't represent fully. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
Circe just tells us stuff like “represents,” “reincarnation,” and “is” stuff like that to explain her relationship to Magic. She isn't it. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #56)
Also, Hecate can be replaced as the goddess of Magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #14) Her magical powers are very replaceable despite reasoning saying she is Magic itself. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #15)
Hecate Feats:
She managed to turn and twist the Parliament to change it from the Green to the Flower. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
This feat should be expressed as maybe above the Orrery which is a Low 2-C structure. Given it's in its reality of its own separate from Copreal reality and is near the Sphere. So this is a 2-C feat. Plus, this was during her control over Magic before she was consumed by her darker counterpart.
Hecate was remaking Nada Parbat into her toasted vision of a magical afterlife.
Given this location is somewhat relative to Earth. This should be a realm outside a regular Universal structure. This is a 3-A to Low 2-C feat. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
She matches Upside Dowman, her dark counterpart fused with all twisted versions of her Light. Also, it was replaced by Eclipso, who could eat away at her magic. A power to eclipse her own. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #16)
Matches another 2-C being.
Upside Downman Powers:
Like Hecate, this monster formed his reality from his image. Their realms are meant to mirror each other with different working. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #24). His realm is the source of the dark magic that Chaos used to shape the Universe with their will, unlike Order who use the desire of those to shape the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3)
Upside Downman scales to beings who as a collective could possibly destroy the Sphere. So 2-C, possibly 2-B feat.
In the Dark Multiverse, in the Void of Darkness, he showed that Darkness into the Otherplace is meant to contrast the Sphere. He is the Lord of the domain as he tainted that space with his magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #25). However, he tainted this place, and due to this he is Lord but he doesn't have full control. It's a matter of will to control this realm and he was almost beaten and the Otherplace changed by Parliament of Worlds Swamp Thing. He rules over it because no one fought over it. (Justice League Vol.2 #25)
However, he did shape a larger domain. Not the whole structure but a large enough one that should be larger than the Orrery. This could be 2-C.
Also, he is the archetype of Horror itself. (Justice League Vol.2 #18). A predatory being made of Magic itself. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3) The reason why he exists as an archetype is due to belief shaping everything from gods and magic that fuels Existence. Hecate horror of seeing it and that belief shaped it into what he is. (Justice League Vol.2 #26).
As an archetype as well as beings scaled to the Sphere ruling over its supposed reflection should be 2-C.
When he tested it into reality it could bring down that entire structure. (Justice League Vol.2 #7) His they were feared and believe in them, removing them would be near impossible. In fact, he could just tear reality with Chaos Magic not set by the rules of the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3). I mean Hecate and Rama's fighting has the power potential to destroy the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #4) Upside Downman is the equal of Hecate plus he has the Otherkind behind his back. In fact, he would eventually tear the barrier that surrounds the Multiverse to desperate him from the Light Multiverse. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #10).
This should be a 2-C feat. If that barrier surrounds the entire Multiverse, which we can consider a Low 2-C then it comes just a little higher.
Also, he is the pinnacle of the Otherkind. (Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark Vol.1 #1) This is because of his father, creator, and maker of the Otherkind race. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #26). He even arranged to keep his body despite being blasted by a huge power by Fate. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #26)
PS: I rather not go over the individual member of the Otherkind.
These guys are at least 2-C, maybe a little higher into it but nowhere near their tier right now.
Hecate and Upside Dowman are Magic itself:
It has been mentioned sometimes that Heacte was Magic. However, in some writings, she isn't. The origin of Magic began during the dawn of the Multiverse and the plane of possibilities formed into the Sphere of Gods which surrounded the Multiverse, in which the first magical inhabitant was Hecate. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
This makes sense since if we use Hecate and Magic interchangeably it wouldn't make sense. For example when the Otherkind was invading reality and the magic users used magic in a way that wasn't to Hecate liking. She wanted to revert it back to the primal state in which her Magic will replace the current reality order of Magic. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #56)
It doesn't make sense because well isn't she Magic itself? It's simply that people hadn't grasped this concept yet. If she was Magic itself, she shouldn't have to change it back. It should be to her “full control.” She has an opposite, a shadow reflection called the Upside Downman (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1) which tells us that she cannot be full magic if it were split into two. It's more so has to do with the fact she represents all light possibilities and Upside Downman all the dark twisted versions. (Justice League Vol.2 #18)
We know that she tries to return Magic back to its primitive state not tainted by the rules set in motion by Lords of Order and Chaos who wrote the first Books of Magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #2). At best, she was writing the rules of magic to fit her desire to return Magic back to the old time when it was raw, wild, and primitive. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #57)
Also while on the topic of her not being Magic. Why does she need to replace this current magic with her own? Why a need to write her own Books of Magic? This proves again she isn't Magic itself. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
She also took a piece of the Dark Multiverse giving the first Chaos Magic. Something she doesn't represent fully. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
Circe just tells us stuff like “represents,” “reincarnation,” and “is” stuff like that to explain her relationship to Magic. She isn't it. (Wonder Woman Vol.5 #56)
Also, Hecate can be replaced as the goddess of Magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #14) Her magical powers are very replaceable despite reasoning saying she is Magic itself. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #15)
Hecate Feats:
She managed to turn and twist the Parliament to change it from the Green to the Flower. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
This feat should be expressed as maybe above the Orrery which is a Low 2-C structure. Given it's in its reality of its own separate from Copreal reality and is near the Sphere. So this is a 2-C feat. Plus, this was during her control over Magic before she was consumed by her darker counterpart.
Hecate was remaking Nada Parbat into her toasted vision of a magical afterlife.
Given this location is somewhat relative to Earth. This should be a realm outside a regular Universal structure. This is a 3-A to Low 2-C feat. (Justice League Dark and Wonder Woman: Witching Hour Vol.1 #1)
She matches Upside Dowman, her dark counterpart fused with all twisted versions of her Light. Also, it was replaced by Eclipso, who could eat away at her magic. A power to eclipse her own. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #16)
Matches another 2-C being.
Upside Downman Powers:
Like Hecate, this monster formed his reality from his image. Their realms are meant to mirror each other with different working. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #24). His realm is the source of the dark magic that Chaos used to shape the Universe with their will, unlike Order who use the desire of those to shape the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3)
Upside Downman scales to beings who as a collective could possibly destroy the Sphere. So 2-C, possibly 2-B feat.
In the Dark Multiverse, in the Void of Darkness, he showed that Darkness into the Otherplace is meant to contrast the Sphere. He is the Lord of the domain as he tainted that space with his magic. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #25). However, he tainted this place, and due to this he is Lord but he doesn't have full control. It's a matter of will to control this realm and he was almost beaten and the Otherplace changed by Parliament of Worlds Swamp Thing. He rules over it because no one fought over it. (Justice League Vol.2 #25)
However, he did shape a larger domain. Not the whole structure but a large enough one that should be larger than the Orrery. This could be 2-C.
Also, he is the archetype of Horror itself. (Justice League Vol.2 #18). A predatory being made of Magic itself. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3) The reason why he exists as an archetype is due to belief shaping everything from gods and magic that fuels Existence. Hecate horror of seeing it and that belief shaped it into what he is. (Justice League Vol.2 #26).
As an archetype as well as beings scaled to the Sphere ruling over its supposed reflection should be 2-C.
When he tested it into reality it could bring down that entire structure. (Justice League Vol.2 #7) His they were feared and believe in them, removing them would be near impossible. In fact, he could just tear reality with Chaos Magic not set by the rules of the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #3). I mean Hecate and Rama's fighting has the power potential to destroy the Universe. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #4) Upside Downman is the equal of Hecate plus he has the Otherkind behind his back. In fact, he would eventually tear the barrier that surrounds the Multiverse to desperate him from the Light Multiverse. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #10).
This should be a 2-C feat. If that barrier surrounds the entire Multiverse, which we can consider a Low 2-C then it comes just a little higher.
Also, he is the pinnacle of the Otherkind. (Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark Vol.1 #1) This is because of his father, creator, and maker of the Otherkind race. (Justice League Dark Vol.2 #26). He even arranged to keep his body despite being blasted by a huge power by Fate. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #26)
PS: I rather not go over the individual member of the Otherkind.
These guys are at least 2-C, maybe a little higher into it but nowhere near their tier right now.
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