Re:adding Resistance to Time Stop and Updating Hit's Range | Dragon Ball Super Revision

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

None of the scenes in dragonball ever perfectly represent even ftl speeds. Furthermore, there's no reason that immeasurable speed characters can't just fight while time passes. Plus your statment is incorrect. In the TOP we see multiple people move through time at will to counter the time skip.

You're missing the point. If they were truly Immeasurable and can move freely forward in time, what also stops them from just going backward in time as they fight? There's no reason to assume they always fight regularly and only ever move forward in time to counter time skip, while never thinking of just moving backwards in time too much like how they can move forward in time

That way, they would counter the time limit for the tournament of 48 minutes. But this is not the case. The time limit is a clear problem for all of the cast, including Jiren and MUI Goku.

 

[sanicspood]

im gonna say it: just because you’re fast enough to move through time doesn’t mean you have the capabilities or power to actually carry out the function or ability to do so.

with that logic Immeasurable speed characters would be moving through time every moment they use said speed.

.

 

[sanicspood]

I mean considering how these characters are bare minimum hundreds to septillions of c. logically speaking the entire ToP should have been over in less than a second. I'm not particularly fond of the time limit argument tbh

Although Heroes could be more likely to have immeasurable with feats of flying to alternate timelines and points in time via flight

.

 

[ArmBill]

You're missing the point. If they were truly Immeasurable and can move freely forward in time, what also stops them from just going backward in time as they fight? There's no reason to assume they always fight regularly and only ever move forward in time to counter time skip, while never thinking of just moving backwards in time too much like how they can move forward in time

That way, they would counter the time limit for the tournament of 48 minutes. But this is not the case. The time limit is a clear problem for all of the cast, including Jiren and MUI Goku.

Like many people stated already. The time limit for the TOP isn't a very good example debunking it. If we wanted to be very pedantic, we could say dragonball characters are the speed of sound due to fighting and talking at the same time. If I remember correctly, they wouldn't use it to go back in time due to it being against Godly law and it creating a new timeline.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also correct me if I wrong, doesn't the immeasurable speed feats happen in Hits Time dimension.....so basically time limit wouldn't even apply properly there.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I'm pretty moving in time stop doesn't give immusurable speed anymore unless the context makes this pretty clear or was stated or shown don't know why you people braught that up and it's like it's gonna be accepted

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I'm pretty moving in time stop doesn't give immusurable speed anymore unless the context makes this pretty clear or was stated or shown don't know why you people braught that up and it's like it's gonna be accepted

There isn't a time stop though....its movement in time itself.

 

[Orange]

I'm pretty moving in time stop doesn't give immusurable speed anymore unless the context makes this pretty clear or was stated or shown don't know why you people braught that up and it's like it's gonna be accepted

Budy, that wasn't a time stop, a time skip, preformed on hit, hit is skipping through time, goku got fast enough to tag someone who can skip into time

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Like many people stated already. The time limit for the TOP isn't a very good example debunking it. If we wanted to be very pedantic, we could say dragonball characters are the speed of sound due to fighting and talking at the same time.

There is a difference between inconsistency and something that is completely contradicted not only to mention that that's only a single immusurable speed which is infinitely superior than everything Goku did in his life which can easily be considered an outlier

 

[AwkguyDB]

someone said this already but imma just say it again

Using the time of the tournament as a counter argument is point less because you have an individual who is moving FTL (up to 2000x) in the span of 45 minutes fighting people. Logically the tournament should end in seconds. It’s like Frieza’s five minutes

 

[AwkguyDB]

There is a difference between inconsistency and something that is completely contradicted not only to mention that that'd only a single immusurable speed which is infinitely superior than everything Goku did in his life which can easily be considered an outlier

Busting or having the power to bust a 4D universal space time is infinitely superior to Solar System busting and yet here we are

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

someone said this already but imma just say it again

Using the time of the tournament as a counter argument is point less because you have an individual who is moving FTL (up to 2000x) in the span of 45 minutes fighting people. Logically the tournament should end in seconds. It’s like Frieza’s five minutes

Feats like this are not considered infinite speed anymore.....

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Busting or having the power to bust a 4D universal space time is infinitely superior to Solar System busting and yet here we are

DB characters has multiple feats, statements, scaling showing that they have 4D AP unlike the immusurable speed feat

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Goku should just have limited time travel

 

[ArmBill]

There is a difference between inconsistency and something that is completely contradicted not only to mention that that's only a single immusurable speed which is infinitely superior than everything Goku did in his life which can easily be considered an outlier

It isn't an outlier. People have moved in the time skip multiple times. Plus we have people surpassing and reacting to Infinte Zamasu who can move through time. There's even more that I mentioned before. People need to learn what an outlier is . Someone having a feat beyond what they shown before dosen't automatically make it not valid.

 

[sanicspood]

nothing here is getting accepted if it doesn't go through akm

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It isn't an outlier. People have moved in the time skip multiple times. Plus we have people surpassing and reacting to Infinte Zamasu who can move through time. There's even more that I mentioned before. People need to learn what an outlier is . Someone having a feat beyond what they shown before dosen't automatically make it not valid.

Goku should only get limited time travel. Hit skips time a few seconds, and Goku can surpass It, which leads to Goku skipping time for secs

 

[Orange]

Lets all put time feats and examine them :
Goku reacting and attacking someone who can time skip.
Moving in an erased timeline.
Reacting to zamasu spreading.
Dyspo and jiren doing the same thing goku did.
Jiren being stated to be above time.
And goku catching up with the time travel machine [but I am iffy on it].

Just put a different thread and reevaluate all of these feats instead of calling them "outlier" and "inconsistent"

 

[ArmBill]

nothing here is getting accepted if it doesn't go through akm

Get him to look at the new arguments ig

Goku should only get limited time travel. Hit skips time a few seconds, and Goku can surpass It, which leads to Goku skipping time for secs

Movement through time via speed by definition is immeasarable speed. You can't measure that in the conventional way. Plus hit reacted to people countering his time skip, meaning his fighting speed is on that tier.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Lets all put time feats and examine them :
Goku reacting and attacking someone who can time skip.
Moving in an erased timeline.
Reacting to zamasu spreading.
Dyspo and jiren doing the same thing goku did.
Jiren being stated to be above time.
And goku catching up with the time travel machine [but I am iffy on it].

Just put a different thread and reevaluate all of these feats instead of calling them "outlier" and "inconsistent"

Actually, It could be time stop, as the chapter where Hit was sent to kill a rich Alien, he apparently stopped time and then strikes the Alien in the Heart and faints

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Actually, It could be time stop, as the chapter where Hit was sent to kill a rich Alien, he apparently stopped time and then strikes the Alien in the Heart and faints

Different techniques.

 

[Orange]

Actually, It could be time stop, as the chapter where Hit was sent to kill a rich Alien, he apparently stopped time and then strikes the Alien in the Heart and faints

He used time stop on the man, but not goku or dyspo, but he used it on jiren [memory Is a bit fuzzy so eh]
yup, hit used time skip on dyspo

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Movement through time via speed by definition is immeasarable speed. You can't measure that in the conventional way. Plus hit reacted to people countering his time skip, meaning his fighting speed is on that tier.

Inmensurable speed was rejected over and over, even in the last thread regarding DBH's and DBS'S "Low 1-C and infinite speed" what makes you think that this Will be any different??

 

[sanicspood]

DBS'S "Low 1-C and infinite speed"

that wasnt rejected, zamasu chan just gave up

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

that wasnt rejected, zamasu chan just gave up

Anyway still, I fear this will get rejected aswell sadly...........

 

[ArmBill]

Inmensurable speed was rejected over and over, even in the last thread regarding DBH's and DBS'S "Low 1-C and infinite speed" what makes you think that this Will be any different??

It's possible It will be rejected. However, I'm not gonna act like they don't have immeasurable speed. That's what the evidence propgates. All the counter points don't substantiate their position very well.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It's possible It will be rejected. However, I'm not gonna act like they don't have immeasurable speed. That's what the evidence propgates. All the counter points don't substantiate their position very well.

Well then you should probably make a separate thread explaining DB characters immusurable speed feats in detail and try to explain why it's not an outlier since we are going off topic here

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It's possible It will be rejected. However, I'm not gonna act like they don't have immeasurable speed. That's what the evidence propgates. All the counter points don't substantiate their position very well.

Anyway, AKM and many Staff Will disagree with this, and this will get rejected, don't matter how hard you and the people that agree with this try, however, if we consider the "time stop" technique that Hit used against that Alien, the same as the technique that he used against Goku, then this could lead us to a positive fate for Goku.

So we only have to options:

Accept that this Will get rejected.

Give Goku time stop resistance based on what've said before.

 

[Orange]

But he used time skip not time stop.two different abilities, why should we assume he did use it when he didn't use it at all

 

[ArmBill]

Anyway, AKM and many Staff Will disagree with this, and this will get rejected, don't matter how hard you and the people that agree with this try, however, if we consider the "time stop" technique that Hit used against that Alien, the same as the technique that he used against Goku, then this could lead us to a positive fate for Goku.

So we only have to options:

Accept that this Will get rejected.

Give Goku time stop resistance based on what've said before.

I rather try and get goku the proper information. I'm not interested in conceding to misinformation. If he gets nethier it is what it is.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

But he used time skip not time stop.two different abilities, why should we assume he did use it when he didn't use it at all

We exactly don't know actually, when Hit arrived in that castle and used that "Time stop technique" to kill the Alien, the mechanism was identical to when he seemengly "freezed" Goku in time. So we can't assume that he wasn't using some Sort of time stop against him

 

[ArmBill]

at :50 Vados mentions Hit isn't stopping time, he's skipping it.

Time skip is specified as skipping. The same move he used in the u6 arc and Top.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I rather try and get goku the proper information. I'm not interested in conceding to misinformation. If he gets nethier it is what it is.

If we don't give Goku some sort of Limited time travel or Time stop resistance, this won't lead us to anywhere, inmensurable speed won't be accepted and this thread will turn into a chaos, no, let me reword that.....,a holy third world war

 

[ArmBill]

Well that's a false dichotomy for one. Also, we're discussing cartoons, if someone gets heated that's on them. I never really got why mods would close already discussed topics. Discussion foments new ideas and is healthy.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

at :50 Vados mentions Hit isn't stopping time, he's skipping it.

Time skip is specified as skipping. The same move he used in the u6 arc and Top.

Limited time travel, the same that Flash can do, but a much smaller scale. As we use those feats in the wiki for every verse, then this should apply to Goku aswell

 

[ArmBill]

Limited time travel, the same that Flash can do, but a much smaller scale. As we use those feats in the wiki for every verse, then this should apply to Goku aswell

The Flash has immeasurable speed listed though.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

The Flash has immeasurable speed listed though.

Yes, but this count more as an ability than a speed feat, at least in Goku's case

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

The Flash has immeasurable speed listed though.

And also, Post-Crisis Barry Alen has It on his first key, and on his first key he has time travel, but only MFTL+ Speed

 

[Orange]

We exactly don't know actually, when Hit arrived in that castle and used that "Time stop technique" to kill the Alien, the mechanism was identical to when he seemengly "freezed" Goku in time. So we can't assume that he wasn't using some Sort of time stop against him

It was stated he was using time skip, time stopped appeared later
wehave no reasons to assume it was time stop

 

[ArmBill]

Yes, but this count more as an ability than a speed feat, at least in Goku's case

No it's both. Moving through time via movement, can't be measured in a conventional way, aka immeasarable speed. Can you corroborate why this isn't the case. This possibly being rejected is a irrelevant point.

And also, Post-Crisis Barry Alen has It on his first key, and on his first key he has time travel, but only MFTL+ Speed

Unless I'm perceiving that page wrong. It says mftl and immeasarable via running through time overall.