"Smurfing through time" A Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[Antvasima]

Let's wait for Lephyr to see what he says.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Changing to Option 1

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Let's wait for Lephyr to see what he says.

I honestly maintain there's nothing to scale here. My vote is to leave stuff as it is.

 

[TiltedFN]

I honestly maintain there's nothing to scale here. My vote is to leave stuff as it is.

But hit would literally be manipulating the time axis. We have known there is time outside of the macrocosm because of the higher timeline copying everything below, so hit would have to be manipulating it.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I honestly maintain there's nothing to scale here. My vote is to leave stuff as it is.

You really can’t though lol Hit had to use Time from somewhere

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To be noted, you don't need my vote. One more staff voting for option 1 and the thread passes.

I simply disagree with both conclusions.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

LephyrTheRevanchist:

Can you more thoroughly explain your viewpoints here please? I might agree with them.

 

[TiltedFN]

LephyrTheRevanchist:

Can you more thoroughly explain your viewpoints here please? I might agree with them.

There is simply nothing for him to explain, for some reason he just disagrees with both points. Can we have your opinion on option 1 or 2?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

LephyrTheRevanchist:

Can you more thoroughly explain your viewpoints here please? I might agree with them.

Simply put, I disagree with the notion this qualifies to be tierable under our standards. We already accept the in-between space has some form of time, it's simply not tierable. And nothing suggests Hit is manipulating the hyper timeline itself.

The writers simply didn't care about these things and I greatly disagree with us trying to force series to our standards for the sake of upgrades.

That's why I prefer leaving things as they are with respect to Hit's abilities.

 

[TiltedFN]

Simply put, I disagree with the notion this qualifies to be tierable under our standards. We already accept the in-between space has some form of time, it's simply not tierable. And nothing suggests Hit is manipulating the hyper timeline itself.

The writers simply didn't care about these things and I greatly disagree with us trying to force series to our standards for the sake of upgrades.

That's why I prefer leaving things as they are with respect to Hit's abilities.

I get you disagree, but this is literally wrong. We know the neutral space is not tierable, we get that, but the options say that with hit manipulating time outside of the macrocosm, A: The neutral space has its own time axis, or B: Hit is manipulating the all encompassing 5D hypertimeline, therefore, hits time skip is 5D. We simply just note that the neutral zone shares the time of the hypertimeline, which means hit actually manipulates the hypertimeline. The only thing not tierable is the spatial makeup of the neutral zone's 5th axis, thats all.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Or option 3: Is none of the above, is simply nonsense.

Edit: Though as I have alluded to multiple times, if others agree with whatever options, that's up to them. But I in good conscience can't support something I don't believe in.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Simply put, I disagree with the notion this qualifies to be tierable under our standards. We already accept the in-between space has some form of time, it's simply not tierable. And nothing suggests Hit is manipulating the hyper timeline itself.

That’s kinda the point. We accept that the size of the neutral zone has no solid size thus isn’t tierable. Not that it has its own time dimension. Considering how Hits ability works it literally has to be one of the two options either the nuetral zone has its own time axis. Or it doesn’t and fro there the only time he can be manipulating is for the timeline itself.

Unless Hit has some unknown ability to create timelines we know nothing about.

The writers simply didn't care about these things and I greatly disagree with us trying to force series to our standards for the sake of upgrades.

Not really it’s always been time skip since day one. A character even goes out of their way to explain the ability when the cast was working under the theory of time stop.

 

[Everything12]

I'm siding with LephyrTheRevanchist here.

 

[TiltedFN]

So we just ignoring what we're shown simply because you don't like it?

 

[Everything12]

Or just like everyone here I have my own opinion and we should stop acting like their is any actual objective way to treat any of this.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"It's a nonsensical showing that don't really support any meaningful upgrade, simply unquantifiable"
"Ah, so you don't like it lol"

And they wonder why staff don't bother with DB threads.

 

[Everything12]

"It's a nonsensical showing that don't really support any meaningful upgrade, simply unquantifiable"
"Ah, so you don't like it lol"

And they wonder why staff don't bother with DB threads.

To be fair, Dragon Ball fans are faaar from the only community on this site to act like this.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Or option 3: Is none of the above, is simply nonsense.

Edit: Though as I have alluded to multiple times, if others agree with whatever options, that's up to them. But I in good conscience can't support something I don't believe in.

Can you explain why it is none of the above, please?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To be fair, Dragon Ball fans are faaar from the only community on this site to act like this.

True enough.

 

[TiltedFN]

But it's not nonsensical? We literally know there is an overarching timeline coming into play here outside of the macrocosm, which hit can manipulate, there is literally no other way to interpret this. You literally said, "I don't believe in it", gave reasons, and we told you those, "reasons" are incorrect based on whats accepted, I really don't understand. And now you're coming after DB fans fans for no reason. I find this extremely disingenuous

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You feel I'm wrong. I don't believe I am. That's simply it. You don't have to convince me, I've said it many times already, if others agree so be it. I will defend it going forward, as that's my job as staff.

But when you try to reduce my thoughts with a strawman, I am going to express exasperation.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Soo uhh let me get this straight, and please someone correct me on this.
Hit used his time related abilities in the neutral zone, which means either the neutral zone has time in order for the abilities to work, thus making it 6D. Or hit effected the timeline, making it hit time skip abilities 5D. And the counter for this is..that it's nonsical. Is this everything, right?

 

[Killerdrone123]

Soo uhh let me get this straight, and please someone correct me on this.
Hit used his time related abilities in the neutral zone, which means either the neutral zone has time in order for the abilities to work, thus making it 6D. Or hit effected the timeline, making it hit time skip abilities 5D. And the counter for this is..that it's nonsical. Is this everything, right?

Basically yes

 

[TiltedFN]

You feel I'm wrong. I don't believe I am. That's simply it. You don't have to convince me, I've said it many times already, if others agree so be it. I will defend it going forward, as that's my job as staff.

But when you try to reduce my thoughts with a strawman, I am going to express exasperation.

I'm strawmanning you? Okay lets go over it then

Simply put, I disagree with the notion this qualifies to be tierable under our standards. We already accept the in-between space has some form of time, it's simply not tierable. And nothing suggests Hit is manipulating the hyper timeline itself.

We literally told you we know the neutral space is not tierable, this thread aimed to change that via hit using time hax outside of the macrocosm, either by manipulating the time axis of the neutral zone, or manipulating the higher timeline, because like I said, theres nothing stopping the neutral zone from using the hypertimeline as his source. You also said it was the writers? The writers made it so there is a higher timeline that encompasses these lesser timelines with distinct time axes, thats what is shown. We showed you that it is NOT nonsensical, and it makes sense within the shown cosmology, with that out of the way, your argument is reduced to, "But I in good conscience can't support something I don't believe in". Is this not argument from incredulity? You are unwilling to believe in what we told you because of your personal belief. "You feel I'm wrong. I don't believe I am". But the fact is that in terms of what is already accepted, you quite literally ARE wrong, you misunderstood the argument multiple times, and when corrected, you still believe you are right. You said I straw manned you because I said, "So we just ignoring what we're shown simply because you don't like it?". Which is pretty much what's going on here, "you don't believe in it" can also be equated to not liking it because TO YOU it doesn't make sense, and ultimately not choosing either of the options means just ignoring the abilities and showings for basically no reason. "And they wonder why staff don't bother with DB threads". There was absolutely no reason for this, so you don't think the DB supporters would call out if a staff, or any person for that matter is being unreasonable and base part of their arguments off of objectively wrong reasoning off of what is already accepted? Make it make sense dude. It's fine if you disagree with something based on good reasons, but you reasons don't fit what I would call, "good".

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Simply put, I disagree with the notion this qualifies to be tierable under our standards. We already accept the in-between space has some form of time, it's simply not tierable. .

Just correcting one thing here, neutral zone being untierable 5D was due to the space that separates the universes having no proof of at least universal size, this, being 5D but insignificant, is is however, significantly 4D as it contains multiple 2C structure. There has never been any form of time associated with the neutral zone, that's actually one of the main reasons why it was insignificant along the 5D axis, as it was assumed to be serviced by the timeline itself.

But I understand if you still don't feel like picking any option

Soo uhh let me get this straight, and please someone correct me on this.
Hit used his time related abilities in the neutral zone, which means either the neutral zone has time in order for the abilities to work, thus making it 6D. Or hit effected the timeline, making it hit time skip abilities 5D. And the counter for this is..that it's nonsical. Is this everything, right?

Just one thing, the Neutral zone won't be 6d if the second option passes, the timeline would be

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I have asked @Qawsedf234 to comment here, as he has a better understanding than me on these topics. Depending on what he says, I can change my mind.

So I'd ask to wait for his response.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It's fine if you disagree with something based on good reasons, but you reasons don't fit what I would call, "good".

My point exactly. This entire post is completely unnecessary, when this is the crux here.

Regardless, because I'm so unreasonable, I have asked further evaluation from a better expert than me.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Just correcting one thing here, neutral zone being untierable 5D was due to the space that separates the universes having no proof of at least universal size, this, being 5D but insignificant, is is however, significantly 4D as it contains multiple 2C structure. There has never been any form of time associated with the neutral zone, that's actually one of the main reasons why it was insignificant along the 5D axis, as it was assumed to be serviced by the timeline itself.

But I understand if you still don't feel like picking any option

Just one thing, the Neutral zone won't be 6d if the second option passes, the timeline would be

Thanks for correcting me. Both options sound equally good to me, but I'll probably pick the 6D timeline option.
However, did any staff that disagreed put an argument as to why it's not valid besides dropping "It's nonsense" argument?

 

[RedReaper616]

Unless Hit has some unknown ability to create timelines we know nothing about.

His Time Dimension is referred to specifically as "Parallel World," which is specifically used for Higher Order Timelines that Trunks and the gang travel through. So that's a legitimately valid explanaton to the phenomena, actually. Though it would mean he wouldn't be able to gather any new time for his Dimension, which isn't indicated anywhere.

Not really it’s always been time skip since day one. A character even goes out of their way to explain the ability when the cast was working under the theory of time stop.

We've went over this in a different thread but this doesn't mean anything because it legitimately makes no sense whatsoever. Time Skip as an ability is simply so internally inconsistent that this testimony, while valid for supportive evidence, can't be utilized/indicative of any major changes because it's supporting a contradictory set of information.

 

[Tomfer]

It's crazy how the dude chooses to continue to press the same button multiple times instead leaving it alone and just wait for Qawsedf's vote, lmao.

 

[TiltedFN]

It's crazy how the dude chooses to continue to press the same button multiple times instead leaving it alone and just wait for Qawsedf's vote, lmao.

What are you talking about

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

What are you talking about

I think they are referring to me

 

[RenderGK]

His Time Dimension is referred to specifically as "Parallel World," which is specifically used for Higher Order Timelines that Trunks and the gang travel through. So that's a legitimately valid explanaton to the phenomena, actually. Though it would mean he wouldn't be able to gather any new time for his Dimension, which isn't indicated anywhere.

Hit Dimensione is a new ability that Hit got after the fight in neutral space against Goku.

since he didn't have it until the rematch against Goku.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Thanks for correcting me. Both options sound equally good to me, but I'll probably pick the 6D timeline option.
However, did any staff that disagreed put an argument as to why it's not valid besides dropping "It's nonsense" argument?

None so far

I believe the main issue for the disagreement is how the ability is treated inverse as opposed to the actual scientific ramifications

It feels like the writers just made his abilities that way to make a hax guy, not thinking about the consequences from a powerscaling POV

At least that's my take on it

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Hits abilities are super simple, he has time skip, he can also stop and store time and create a dimension were he can do mumbo jumbo shit. I dunno what's confusing.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

None so far

I believe the main issue for the disagreement is how the ability is treated inverse as opposed to the actual scientific ramifications

It feels like the writers just made his abilities that way to make a hax guy, not thinking about the consequences from a powerscaling POV

At least that's my take on it

So if they don't have an actual argument..THEN WHAT THE **** ARE THEY BASING THIER DISAGREEMENT ON?

 

[TiltedFN]

So if they don't have an actual argument..THEN WHAT THE **** ARE THEY BASING THIER DISAGREEMENT ON?

Lets just wait for more qawsed, or whoever else shows up

 

[Qawsedf234]

I have asked @Qawsedf234 to comment here, as he has a better understanding than me on these topics. Depending on what he says, I can change my mind.

Hit storing time and then using it for timestop wouldn't automatically involve controlling the hypertimeline, since that would mean he's controlling three different temporal axis (A, B and the governing C body).

Without reading any additional comments and just the OP, I would assume it'd just be choice B rather than some 5D Smurf thing.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Hit storing time and then using it for timestop wouldn't automatically involve controlling the hypertimeline, since that would mean he's controlling three different temporal axis (A, B and the governing C body).

Without reading any additional comments and just the OP, I would assume it'd just be choice B rather than some 5D Smurf thing.

@TiltedFN wanna argue this?

Also, thanks Qawsedf