Re:adding Resistance to Time Stop and Updating Hit's Range | Dragon Ball Super Revision

[Antvasima]

I have only read the first post of this thread, but it seems to make sense to me to re-add time stop resistance.

What are the conclusions so far here, and what do the staff members who have replied think?

 

[ArmBill]

Zamasu Chan also gave some arguments for Inmensurable speed DBS, however, It also got rejected by many staff members, I already said how the infinite speed is a inconsistency, many characters would have to scale no matter what, and exceptions between characters can't be made, every Z fighter will have to scale no matter what, as they were able to keep with the fight between UI Goku and Jiren, you can't deny how dumb this sounds, but is how It is, that's why this all is ilogical nonesense.

So you guys should just stop pushing for a infinite speed Goku, no matter how sad, angry or frustrated you guys feel, you will have to accept Stuff decision and move on, you can't just try to push them for a infinite speed rating, Ignoring the incredibly amount of plotholes, PIS, and Antifeats on the show.

Just accept reality and recognize that things are not always going to turn out as you want.

If there's no contradictions like I said then they should scale. We're talking about cartoon most things will sound illogical and dumb. We're talking about the same show where piccolo went to like solar system lvl to universal doing push ups.

 

[ArmBill]

I have only read the first post of this thread, but it seems to make sense to me to re-add time stop resistance.

What are the conclusions so far here, and what do the staff members who have replied think?

It's being discussed if it's immeasurable speed feat or not. Vados mentions that Hit isn't stopping but actually skipping. Multiple character counter the time skip, such as Goku, Dyspo, Jiren, etc. Meaning they traveled forward in time, due to hit doing that with his ability. Since Multiple characters have done it, it can't be an outlier.

Thoughts?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

If there's no contradictions like I said then they should scale. We're talking about cartoon most things will sound illogical and dumb. We're talking about the same show where piccolo went to like solar system lvl to universal doing push ups.

There is no contradictions but it sounds insanely dumb, can you imagine Krilin with Inmensurable speed??, no....., This would literally shit on all the scaling, It would create a chaos, people like Master Roshi will have infinite speed, lol, almost every fighter will have it.... Sorry, but as much I would like this to work, this won't be accepted.

 

[AwkguyDB]

So let’s just make this simple either

A.
Give Goku Precognition, Possible Info Analysis, and Resistance to Time Stop
for Rez’s reasons

Or

B.
Give Goku Immeasurable Speed/Limited Time Travel and everyone above U6 arc SSJBKKx10 Goku would scale (3-As/ Low 2-Cs/ 2-Cs from the Black Arc - ToP)
for Armbill’s reasons

If Goku gets neither of these then it’s blatant ignorance from Staff’s part but both of these have supporting feats and validity even consistency within the show

 

[ArmBill]

There is no contradictions but it sounds insanely dumb, can you imagine Krilin with Inmensurable speed??, no....., This would literally shit on all the scaling, It would create a chaos, people like Master Roshi will have infinite speed, lol, almost every fighter will have it.... Sorry, but as much I would like this to work, this won't be accepted.

Even you admitted there is no contradiction. If the staff deny this for sounding dumb, then that's very irrational. I would hope they would have more integrity than that.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I have only read the first post of this thread, but it seems to make sense to me to re-add time stop resistance.

What are the conclusions so far here, and what do the staff members who have replied think?

So let’s just make this simple either

A.
Give Goku Precognition, Possible Info Analysis, and Resistance to Time Stop
for Rez’s reasons

Or

B.
Give Goku Immeasurable Speed/Limited Time Travel and everyone above U6 arc SSJBKKx10 Goku would scale (3-As/ Low 2-Cs/ 2-Cs from the Black Arc - ToP)
for Armbill’s reasons

If Goku gets neither of these then it’s blatant ignorance from Staff’s part but both of these have supporting feats and validity even consistency within the show

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

A.
Give Goku Precognition, Possible Info Analysis, and Resistance to Time Stop
for Rez’s reasons

I choose this one, the most logical and rational for me

 

[Thedoctor]

goku was faster then hits time skip, hit even improved it and he still could keep up ssjb KKx10 so immeasurable speed goku could be possible, especially with MUI it just strengthens the possibility of goku reaching immeasurable speeds since MUI basically maximizes Goku's speed and power

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Even you admitted there is no contradiction. If the staff deny this for sounding dumb, then that's very irrational. I would hope they would

Becouse this is like giving every fighter on the show Inmensurable speed, of course It sounds ilogical and fills the show with plotholes and PIS.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I choose this one, the most logical and rational for me

At this point I would rather us get somewhere than to avoid the sea of death note derailment

 

[AwkguyDB]

But note there is still supporting evidence for Immeasurable

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

At this point I would rather us get somewhere than to avoid the sea of death note derailment

True, to avoid a chaos in speed scaling I would rather choose the first option, and is consistant with the show and is more clear

 

[ArmBill]

Becouse this is like giving every fighter on the show Inmensurable speed, of course It sounds ilogical and fills the show with plotholes and PIS.

Saying theres a plothole implies a contradiction though. Unless you're just meaning like an asspull then, yeah it is. But super has plenty of those.

 

[Thedoctor]

except nobody could stand up to UIO and MUI goku during the TOP besides Jiren and he's the only other mortal capable of overpowering hits time skip so only those two and the angels will probably have immeasurable speed plus probably xeno goku as well

 

[AwkguyDB]

Um question do we consider Hit’s dimension of time equivalent to the Universe in size?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Unless you're just meaning like an asspull then, yeah it is. But super has plenty of those.

Plenty of those that literally strawmean the speed a considerable number of times.

 

[Antvasima]

I am only going to accept resistance to time stop, not immeasurable speed, as we need considerably more consistent reliable evidence for such an extreme ability, and it would also not make any sense with the displayed scale or coherence of the setting. We did not give Natsu of Fairy Tail immeasurable speed either, for example.

What would be the reasons for information analysis and precognition?

 

[AwkguyDB]

Ok after rewatching the fight here's what I understood
At the beginning of the fight Goku was just predicting where Hit will time skip himself this is a pretty amazing feat for Precog upgrade

But later Hit kinds of alters his time stop as now he isn't just simply moving into the future but he is actually attacking Goku with in the time skip this is more like time stop than skip

Later on after Goku goes kaioken X10 he is capable of moving in Hit's time skip too so a resistance to time stop should be fine and you don't need immeasurable to move in stopped time infinte is good enough but I consider that too to be an outliner

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama

It is probably good if you respond in this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Ok after rewatching the fight here's what I understood
At the beginning of the fight Goku was just predicting where Hit will time skip himself this is a pretty amazing feat for Precog upgrade

But later Hit kinds of alters his time stop as now he isn't just simply moving into the future but he is actually attacking Goku with in the time skip this is more like time stop than skip

Later on after Goku goes kaioken X10 he is capable of moving in Hit's time skip too so a resistance to time stop should be fine and you don't need immeasurable to move in stopped time infinte is good enough but I consider that too to be an outliner

Limited battle precognition seems to make sense to me in that case, but it does not seem to fit with information analysis.

 

[ArmBill]

With the first option in terms of time stop resistance its ignoring the fundamental properties of time skip. I'm fine if you want to say time stop resistance is a bi product. However, the most realible statment, which is from vados. Progates the notion that he travels through time.

Plenty of those that literally strawmean the speed a considerable number of times.

Do you mean strawman? Can I get further elaboration

I am only going to accept resistance to time stop, not immeasurable speed, as we need considerably more consistent reliable evidence for such an extreme ability, and it would also not make any sense with the displayed scale or coherence of the setting. We did not give Natsu of Fairy Tail immeasurable speed either, for example.

What would be the reasons for information analysis and precognition?

What else do you need that would fit this, can you delinate your point in more detail? We have 4 different people countering the time skip. People surpassing and reacting to infinte Zamasu who can move his essence through time, goku had the reaction time to hang onto a time machine while it was Mid flight. Jiren was stated to trancend time as well.

 

[Thedoctor]

I mean time skip is pretty much the poor man's time stop but he's still fast enough to catch up to hit while he's in the future so that kind of sounds like infinite speed

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

What else do you need that would fit this, can you delinate your point in more detail? We have 4 different people countering the time skip. People surpassing and reacting to infinte Zamasu, goku had the reaction time to hang onto a time machine while it was Mid flight. Jiren was stated to trancend time as well

Yeah, and the rest of the fighters including Low tiers like Roshi that should also scale.

Not to mention that the "Jiren transcends time thing" it's been debunked trillions of times, and this wouldn't give Jiren resistance to all types of time manip, unless you apply NLF

 

[ArmBill]

Limited battle precognition seems to make sense to me in that case, but it does not seem to fit with information analysis.

He already has analytical prediction

 

[ArmBill]

Yeah, and the rest of the other fighters includong Low tiers like Roshi that should also scale.

Not to mention that the "Jiren transcends time thing" it's been debunked trillions of times, and this wouldn't give Jiren resistance to all types of time manip, unless you apply NLF

Saying that since they get it that it shouldn't be applied is pedantic. In a certain point if view he did trancend time, since there's multiple layers that classify it. It's is supporting evidence however.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

Wait so let me get this straight. The argument against Immeasurable speed is that Roshi was able to react to MUI Goku vs Jiren, yes?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

In a certain point if view he did trancend time, since there's multiple layers that classify it. It's is supporting evidence however.

Oh God, No no, are you saying that Jiren's has resistance to all types of time manipulation??

 

[AwkguyDB]

Limited battle precognition seems to make sense to me in that case, but it does not seem to fit with information analysis.

Why limited 1.
2. Basic Info Analysis is because he knew how it worked just by watching it

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Wait so let me get this straight. The argument against Immeasurable speed is that Roshi was able to react to MUI Goku vs Jiren, yes?

And almost every Z fighter, and It would shit on the recent scaling. DBS is just a mush up of inconsintencies like this

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Why limited 1

True, I also think It should be complete precognition.

 

[Thedoctor]

Limited battle precognition is what he was doing in OG dragon ball vs tao, MUI goku probably has mastery of precognition to the extent that he doesn't even need to think anymore

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Becouse this is like giving every fighter on the show speed, of course It sounds ilogical and fills the show with plotholes and PIS.

Like everything with Immensurable speed chatacter

 

[Antvasima]

We need very consistent and reliable proof of a character being able to completely transcend linear time, treat it like a regular axis of movement, and attack an opponent before the fight started or travel enormous distances literally faster than instantly in order to consider immeasurable speed. That is not remotely the case here, so I would appreciate if everybody stop spamming posts that won't lead anywhere here, and just wait for AKM to clear the time stop resistance and battle precognition instead.

 

[ArmBill]

Oh God, No no, are you saying that Jiren's has resistance to all types of time manipulation??

I'm not NLF it. I'm saying he trancends it to a certain extent. Akin to people transcending infinty but not multiple infinties.

 

[AwkguyDB]

And almost every Z fighter, and It would shit on the recent scaling. DBS is just a mush up of inconsintencies like this

Tbf
You got slow Roshi who’s speed feats would scale to DBZ feats and yet he could keep up with speeds that surpass the BoG speeds which is EXTREMELY HIGHER than what he is capable of

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am going to bed now. Please do not spam hundreds of posts that won't lead anywhere anyway while I am gone.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Anyway, I am going to bed now. Please do not spam hundreds of posts that won't lead anywhere anyway while I am gone.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Ok can everyone who is against Immeasurable detail or show an example of true immeasurable.

and then

those who are for Immeasurable can you show feats that CONSISTENTLY fit those descriptions and examples

this is the only way we can get to some level of agreement here

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Ok can everyone who is against Immeasurable detail or show an example of true immeasurable.

and then

those who are for Immeasurable can you show feats that CONSISTENTLY fit those descriptions and examples

this is the only way we can get to some level of agreement here

No we should just stop spamming and wait for any more Staff imput, this won't lead us to anywhere soon if we still with this bloody what