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Questioning the legitimacy of High 6-A Devil May Cry

> The tremors were generated by demonic power, this doesn't mean they don't are similar to real ones

Completely irrelevant and nobody said anything about this. Where did this response come from?

> And off course the city remained still, Magnitude 3/4 tremors doesn't destroy them, they are for superficial damage if I'm not mistake

No. The narrator literally states that only that one building was affected by the quake. The rest of the city, including the surrounding city block, was perfectly fine.
 
Desperation ? Really ?

We have two other Tier 6 feats and one of them is statements about shaking the foundations of the world, calling what i'm doing here as desperation is just disrespectful, really

Completely irrelevant and nobody said anything about this. Where did this response come from?

You were saying "unnatural tremors", so I said that just be sure, if it wasn't that your point, fine

No. The narrator literally states that only that one building was affected by the quake. The rest of the city, including the surrounding city block, was perfectly fine. This isn't even how earthquakes work.

"Remained still" and "perfectly fine' are two different things

He also explicity states that the world shook, can you give me the scan he explicitly states that only one and only one building is shaking ? Because saying that the building is shaking doesn't mean that's it is the only thing shaking

Also, the laws of physics were warped by another ability from the Beastheads, which is Reality Warping, that's why everything was silent, the novel even cared to explain this and Dante explicity says "The end of the world is quiet" because of them
 
> We have two other Tier 6 feats and one of them is statements about shaking the foundations of the world, calling what i'm doing here as desperation is just disrespectful, really

That's fine. You can have the other two Tier 6 feats. Doesn't matter to Low 6-B because we are talking about this feat specifically, and this feat does not exist.

> "Remained still" and "perfectly fine' are two different things

"Te entire building shook violently. The rest of the city remained still, but the labs were vibrating wildly. The arrhythmic pulses toppled over beakers and researchers alike."

Stated without any vagueness by the narrator that the building shook violently, but the rest of the city remained perfectly still

> He also explicity states that the world shook.

Metaphorically, while completely debunking a literal worldwide quake in the very next paragraph which says nothing is shaking at all, sure. They are literally at the very epicenter, right next to the Beastheads where the quake would be at its strongest, yet they explicitly state that nothing unusual is happening to the surroundings, that everything is quiet and fine, and that the only thing they can hear is the wind ruffling around them. Compare this to the building shake, which had Dante knocked off of his feet and where literally everything said it was shaking.

It is literally impossible to argue that the statement is literal. Sorry, no Low 6-B based on this.
 
That's fine. You can have the other two Tier 6 feats. Doesn't matter to Low 6-B because we are talking about this feat specifically, and this feat does not exist.

Yeah, so DMC doesn't depend on this feat to be Tier 6, so i'm not desperate here, and neither are you

"Te entire building shook violently. The rest of the city remained still, but the labs were vibrating wildly. The arrhythmic pulses toppled over beakers and researchers alike."

Stated without any vagueness by the narrator that the building shook violently, but the rest of the city remained perfectly still

He said that the city "remained still", and not "remained perfectly still", going by Magnitude 3/4 Earthquakes, a city can remain still, with just superficial damage

Also, one of the pages explicity states that the tremors subsided after the "shooking the world" part, so it isn't a surprise that now the rest of the city could be without tremors, it is after the world has been shaked

They are literally at the very epicenter, right next to the Beastheads where the quake would be at its strongest, yet they explicitly state that nothing unusual is happening to the surroundings.

It is literally impossible to argue that the statement is literal.

That's because the laws of physics were warped by the Beastheds, which the novel explicity explained, it is literally their main power tho
 
> He said that the city "remained still", and not "remained perfectly still", going by Magnitude 3/4 Earthquakes, a city can remain still, with just superficial damage

Except he said the entire rest of the city remained still and only that particular building was shaking. And no, the quake can't have been Magnitude 4 at its epicenter. Magnitude 4 quakes can barely be felt. They wouldn't make a whole building shake violently, so this is wrong.

> Also, one of the pages explicity states that the tremors subsided after the "shooking the world" part, so it isn't a surprise that now the rest of the city could be without tremors, it is after the world has been shaked

This is blatantly false. The line where it says the tremors subsided is more than 80 pages after the "world shaking" line. Moreafter, that line takes place after the scene where the building shakes and the city is mentioned to be unaffected, not before it, and it is explicitly referring to the building's tremors, considering said tremors were mentioned in the previous page, and not to the non-existent worldwide tremors. So no,

> That's because the laws of physics were warped by the Beastheds, which the novel explicity explained, it is literally their main power tho

No. The tremors we see the statue trigger can explicitly be felt, so it doesn't affect the quakes.
 
And they were quite clearly magical tremors as shown in when the building shook but the seismographs registered nothing. And when the world was shaking not everything "stood still and nothing unusual was happening in the surroundings" they were just noting how strangely quiet it is.

"The world shook.
The immutable laws of physics wrestled with forces intent on ignoring them. It was the birthing pains of a creature from a dimension anathema to our own.
"This is pretty quiet for the end of the world." A deflated Dante said, coddling Ebony and Ivory. "I expected somehing more, somehow. It's taken the wind out of my sails."
His traditional bluster had been replaced by an understated sobriety. The seaside was more than quiet-it was utterly silent. The waves crashed soundlessly against the cliff. The wind ripping through the tall grass behind Dante and Beryl accompanied by its traditional rustling. It was as if nature itself feared provoking the Beastheads."

Things were clearly happening it was just quiet, probably some Beastheads reality warping at work.
 
> And they were quite clearly magical tremors as shown in when the building shook but the seismographs registered nothing.

Which is irrelevant.

> And when the world was shaking not everything "stood still and nothing unusual was happening in the surroundings" they were just noting how strangely quiet it is.

Yet, when an actual magical tremor by them happens, Dante explicitly notes it is happening...
 
So what? That is referring to how Dante talks loudly. If something was actually happening, but it was simply not audible, then they'd still notice the actual visual effects.
 
"His traditional bluster had been replaced by an understated sobriety"

I mean how much more clear do I need to make it out to be? It's really not that hard to comprehend.
 
> So what? That is referring to how Dante talks loudly.

How much more clear do I need to make it out to be?
 
So the novel only notes a building being affected outside of "The World Shook"? Without any sufficient support of the world actually shaking, I think we can take that 3-word statement as a metaphor for the chaos about to come, aka "the calm before the storm".

I'm back to being against the world shaking.
 
"hate and harshness for the series"...? How? Denying vague and unclear "feats" that have no support is somehow "hateful" to the series?

DMC is arguably one of my favorite series on this wiki, perhaps in general. Sorry if it seems like I'm "hating" on it for calling out false information on "2-C/3-A/4-A/4-C/High 6-A/6-B" feats (or at least questioning them when they are actually valid. So far only one of them seems to be likely valid).
 
CinCameron20 said:
So the novel only notes a building being affected outside of "The World Shook"? Without any sufficient support of the world actually shaking, I think we can take that 3-word statement as a metaphor for the chaos about to come, aka "the calm before the storm".
I'm back to being against the world shaking.
Click to expand...
I... I really don't like being assertive about things on here, since I can have a bit of trouble filtering myself and so it also makes me look like an ass. But I'm going to have to be quite clear on this. How on earth can that statement be interpreted as a metaphor for what's going to happen? Not only is the example you provided of "the calm before the storm" literally the exact opposite of what is described, but there is absolute zilch to say that such a direct statement would be a metaphor. In fact, while I can understand it in many cases due to potential hyperbole, I'm honestly astonished how often the metaphor excuse is used in Devil May Cry to invalidate statements.


It doesn't matter that it is one sentence. The book very specifically and directly states that the world is shaking, and your response is that it is purely metaphorical without any evidence to back it up. By stating that we should not take the statement as literal, you have the burden of proof here, and you have not provided any even remotely decent proof.
 
Not intended towards you,said in general,most dmc threads i seen has a couple of people trying to make the series not get any upgrades or anything or when a feat with huge potential comes imediately shut down
 
Again, show me evidence of the "entire world shaking". One 3-word statement claims "the world shook" (Page 80something) and then we get something where one building is shaking (around page 160~170), a cliff-side is affected(before the "shook" statement), and that's about it. There's no mention of the actual world being affected by quakes. I'm saying it is a metaphor because I've yet to read anything that proves otherwise.

I've re-read the entire encounter and fight with the Beastheads. Nothing points to the world shaking, nothing implies quakes/tremors, and nothing implies anything outside of a small range being affected.

As Kepekley also pointed out, all that's ever said to be "shaking" or "quaking" is a building where Chen and the rest are. Not the planet.

The one who lacks proof here is you. So you'd do well to start providing evidence and stop making an accusation that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

It's the same thing with the "Void Mundus Feat". Claimed by people here on the Wiki, NO EVIDENCE.
 
I know that it's not related to 6-A tier discussion... But since it's DMC discussion... and we're probably gonna tone down Sparda to 7-A or 6-C. I have a question.. does this info change anything for him?

"The Dark Knight Sparda split his power in three parts. One blade bore his own name; the second blade was named to embody retaliation; the final blade was named to embody a god of death."

So Sparda powers = Sparda, Yamato, Rebellion.
 
Figured this is as good a place as any to talk about this, but I've seen some people claim on youtube that the beowful gauntlet makes the DMC3-Era star level and I've seen others on here claim that its simply hyperbole.

It's actually neither, its's simply misinterpreted.

https://imgur.com/a/HbEvZ

Notice the description of the move. "Slam the ground with your first to create a small super-nova"

Small* Super-nova. Notice that it does not say anything about hitting with the force of a super-nova, it only says it creates a small one.

How small? It's literally only a car sized explosion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nus3qCMZnI

Needless to say, a super-nova is only super-nova level in energy because it is...super-nova sized... It's output across a square foot is nothing in comparison to its total energy output across its total area. Take off a car sized chunk of a super-nova and it represents a miniscule amount of the total energy. In fact scientists have created their own mini super-novas in labs. There is nothing remotely Tier 4 about this.
 
Again, Low 6-B isn't accepted (yet, or ever, depending how this discussion goes), so hold your horses.

Looking like 7-A downgrade for top tiers, 6-C~High 6-C if my Qlipthoth calc is acceptable for mid/high ends.
 
You know that your 6-C feat scales to most of the 7-As, right ?

We don't have any evidence that Vergil was moving the Qliphoth, it was going by itself, the game states that the tree have a incredible power and that it is "alive" hunting Human Blood

Then we have another statement, the Fruit is even more powerful than the tree, and Mundus ate it, so scalling this to him, Argosax, 2/4 Dante and Sparda is fine

The Low 6-B feat come from a direct, clear, explicit statement about Post Fruit Urizen being capable of shaking the world to its foundations. Most of the DMC Supporters and Dark already accepted the feat
 
You ignored what I said.

My calc isn't even accepted (yet). And even if Vergil didn't do the feat (fail to see why not when he basically grew a chair out of it on the fly), he ate a fruit that was confirmed to possess denser quantities of human blood and power in it than the entirety of the tree combined. Vergil > Qlipthoth tree regardless. I'm fully aware who scales. You're not, apparently.

Mundus ate the fruit from a different Qlipthoth tree. It could have been far smaller than the one in this game, and even so, Dante was confirmed to have surpassed Sparda by the events of DMC2, so for him to suddenly be weaker than someone weaker or equal to Mundus (by that logic) wouldn't make sense.

Show me said statement.
 
My calc isn't even accepted (yet)

I asked for a evaluation, we'll see what happens

And even if Vergil didn't do the feat (fail to see why not when he basically grew a chair out of it on the fly), he ate a fruit that was confirmed to possess denser quantities of human blood and power in it than the entirety of the tree combined. Vergil > Qlipthoth tree regardless.

Show me a statement that proves that Vergil was moving the tree

I'm fully aware who scales. You're not, apparently.

lol

Mundus ate the fruit from a different Qlipthoth tree. It could have been far smaller than the one in this game, and even so, Dante was confirmed to have surpassed Sparda by the events of DMC2

Would be smaller than this one because...reasons ?

Right here: https://devilmaycry.fandom.com/wiki/Urizen#cite_note-0

You'll find the statements of him being capable of shaking the world after eating the fruit and that Pre Fruit Urizen > Mundus

so for him to suddenly be weaker than someone weaker or equal to Mundus (by that logic) wouldn't make sense.

My logic doesn't point to this

Urizen had his own power + The Devil Bringer (according to V he gained a great power from it) + Qliphoth's Blood, saying that he's comparable to Mundus just because ONE of the sources of his power is just...wrong
 
Dante Demon Killah makes a lot of sense to me.
 
Lol, I don't have a statement of Vergil moving the tree, but as I stated, it doesn't matter if he did or not. The Fruit makes him > The Tree by default.

"reasons"... The tree only grows based off of how much human blood it has absorbed. Nothing implies Mundus ate the fruit from a tree of equal or larger size, or with anywhere near the density of human blood that Urizen ate.

A statement... from Nico's Reports. Heh, let's look at the statement: "...he had the power to shake the foundations of the world". Well first of all, this is Nico's opinion. Not exactly databook-tier intel. Also, "shaking the foundations of the world"... Do I really need to go into explaining why this does not directly point at literally shaking the planet? Here we go again:

Word-for-word, using both definitions of "foundation", That statement implies "Urizen had the power to shake the basic principles of the world" rather than literally shaking the planet. But it's so wrong to assume that he could shake the planet itself from a character statement that could be implied as a metaphor or has a completely different meaning from what you are trying to pass.

Using the entire passage, here's what she says: "All that blood...all that life force focused into the fruit of the Qliphoth. When Urizen ate that thing, his whole "king of hell" gig seemed like nothing--he had the power to shake the foundations of the world."

Grammatically speaking, this supports my next point fully.

If this isn't clear enough: He didn't gain powers to literally shake the planet, nor did he EVER show such power. He attained power to affect the laws of the Demon and Human world (literal laws, not reality warping). He was going to change the laws of the world, and had vastly surpassed Mundus and Argosax, who were both powerful, but never could take full control over the human world, which has been a running theme for this series.

Wanna argue against this? Show actual evidence that he can shake the entire planet.
 
Grammatically speaking, what you said doesn't make any sense

Nothing implies that Mundus ate a fruit of equal or largar size

Nothing implies that he ate a fruit smaller in power, and we have Trish saying that the Fruit's power is huge and gave Mundus example from when he ate the Fruit to become the King, literally to explain her point, both fruits are comparable

Now, do you really believe that Nico, a character with that personality, would use that kind of language on her report ? Not only the foundations part, but the "SHAKE" part, there is absolutely no reason to believe that she meant to say that he can change "the laws of the Underworld" or the "principles", she literally said he can SHAKE, not change, SHAKE the Foundations of the world, which is Low 6-B by our Standard, it's incredible that you are trying to somewhat debunk every Tier 6 feat here even to the point of creating stories about a Shakesperian Nico, who talks on her reports with a quite literal language

Also, Nico is very smart and knows her verse very well, every info that you find there is true not only because most of that she saw for her own eyes or was involved, but because it is a Guide for the players to use for verse infos, so what, are you telling me that she or the game is lying about Urizen or something else ? The only thing on her reports that are vague are about Sparda, not only because DMC always showed things related to him as vague, but because we never saw a 100% Sparda, who defeated Mundus and his army by himself with an Unknown difficulty, that's why we see her saying that Dante is possibly stronger than Sparda, and this is the main argument that people say to believe the she's not reliable

Wanna argue against this? Show actual evidence that he can shake the entire planet.

I have a statement from the guides, and since we are not in 2016 VSB, we use statements

Now please show me the statement about Vergil moving the Qliphoth, because without it, it is a feat from the Qliphoth itself and since the Fruit is superior, it scales to Mundus
 
I do agree that the "shaking the foundations of the world" statement may be a bit vague, but dismissing Nico's reports as unreliable is pretty dishonest if you ask me.
 
I agree with RebubleUselet. The statement may be slightly vague, but we have no reason to believe that Nico is incorrect in her reports, intentionally or otherwise. Also, while the statement is slightly vague, the implications behind the statement are pretty obvious. Technically speaking, she could have been saying that he changed the way the underworld worked (to oversimplify) but that's just such a strange thing to both know and bring up. Also, while the definition of foundation may have more to do with rules, that's a bit of a red-herring argument. Yes, that may be the definition. But almost everybody uses the word "foundation" in a literal, physical way. Physical foundation, like the one you'd find holding up a building. I may not be getting my point across very well here (I'm currently tired and really, really sick, so my writing is way off from what I'm trying to say) but my point is that 9/10 times when someone says "foundation" they don't mean it in a figurative, "rule" way. I don't see why we should assume that Nico would. Again, I'm probably not making any sense. I'll restate my point here later when my head's a little clearer...
 
So at this point in time we cant properly scale Dante and his Void feat.. We can either downplay him or wank him...

Can someone ask Itsuno on twitter about Power Scalling? It worked with Cory Balrog.
 
That's actually a good idea. He would be considered WoG for DMC2-5, and unlike Kamiya I see no reason to think he'd be unreliable.
 
I do not personally have a Twitter account, although I would like to see this be asked. Is anybody willing to do so?
 
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