Possibly some bad DC Comics news

[DMB_1]

Visual Novels technically count as video-games, they just usually tend to have very low interactivity to really be considered "games".

But basically, modern generations, especially people between their teens and their twenties, have grown more interest in eastern manga and animated media, as well as Western Comic Books not being able to achieve the quality of their previous stories and either displeasing and/or alienating long-time readers and fans.

 

[Huesito88]

Visual Novels are the greatest though I haven't seen a Isekai oversaturation for them only for Light Novels.

 

[Newendigo]

Light novels and Anime should not count as well.

One is from the medium of animation/cartoons.

The other are books.

 

[DMB_1]

The Isekai oversaturation is due to:

1) Being very easy to make compared to other things like manga, doujinshi, anime and... Outright books.

2) Moderns generations liking stories with escapist themes and protagonist who either find relatable or just wishing they'd be in a similar situation as the protagonist, who is a lot f the times Overpowered and surrounded by attractive and cute girls.

3) Light Novels making a lot of money. Simple as that.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Isekai oversaturating the LN market isn't a bad thing believe it or not. There are many isekai that are genuinely good like Konosuba and Sentouin. And there are books that are ironically good too coming from Isekai. Plus creativity isn't completely abandoned either, remember that there are LNs that aren't Isekai like Toaru, Boogie, and Fate. I'm a LN reader for a year now.

 

[AKM sama]

Probably the first ever character I liked and loved, he was my hero, an inspiration, an idol...came out of DC Comics. Yes you guessed it...Superman.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I hate Isekais...

On another note, I think a big reason as to why Manga does generally better than Comic books now is that there are a lot of Manga with weekly releases, I mean of course there are a lot of monthly to "Berserk" manga, but the popular ones get weekly releases, so you get to experience the story at very consistent fast rate, which makes it more appealing to everyone

Also, there's usually a good place to start, while with Comic books, I have no idea where to start

 

[The_Impress]

I love how instead of like, discussing DC Comics or even paying homage to them, this thread became "Let's flex on Western Comics by telling how much better manga is in comparison"

Like, I know this is a exaggeration, but at this point this feels derailing and borderline spiteful. It's the same as someone going to a Stan Lee Memorial event and saying "Yeah, but Dan Slott ******* ruined Spider-Man" on the stage. It's pointless and attacks the legacy of the subject

And FYI, I personally loathe DC in terms of their business practices and how they treat their IPs, but even then, this is super pushing it

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It feels both more like it just changed topics to Manga discussion and something off topic plus that actually. We really should stop that comparison now, speaking as a bigger fan of manga. The first few responses were fine but yeah, I agree. Let's focus on DC right now

 

[SuperAPM]

While I would generally agree that the Manga industry is currently producing better products than the Comics industry unfortunately, I have to Concur with Zark2099 and Ciruno Fortes. This does feel a little disrespectful.

 

[Leader_Vladimir]

I really hope DC can push through this mess. And no, I don't think that doing the same things manga does won't improve things. Comics and manga are entirely different beasts. DC is my favorite comic book company and they have yet to show their full potential. Rebirth was proof of how amazing their comics can be. I heavily disagree with some of their business practices (sidelining Superman in the DCEU, the Arrowverse's demographic orientation) and their treatment of their IPs (Heroes in Crisis, Batman's current stories), but they can come back from those.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Zark I'm going to level here.

You're surrounded by a community that is at least 85% full of people who are blatantly more into manga than comics, many of whom haven't picked up a Western comic book in years (if ever) and quite a few of whom make fun of Marvel and DC on at the very least an occasional basis.

I don't like it either, and agree that what's going on in regards to the conversation is unnecessary at this point. But this was guaranteed to happen...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Being a patriotic American I prefer comics and its characters to manga and its characters even if I read the latter far more.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I know this may sound cliché but I just enjoy whatever intrigues me regardless of where it's from or genre.

 

[The_Impress]

@MKoN I'm not spiting anyone who contributed to that conversation, hell I answered the question when it was initially asked. I'm just saying continuing to answer said question should probably be stopped now, it was a request not some sort of ultimatum

 

[Huesito88]

I picked up a comic way before I picked up manga, but when I did pick it up. Oof I went for and now I read Light Novels, Visual Novel, actually watch a lot more anime, and even web comics from the east.

 

[Doomrider7]

Or how about neither of the two biggest publishers- who have become ingrained in popular culture and literally saw through several generations- go under?

After Rebirth, I genuinely had hope for DC, although I personally don't see Marvel pulling it's head out of its own rear barring a massive restructuring of its writing team.
As for Marvel improving/having good runs, a broken clock is still right twice a day, I say. The issues that put it where it is are still there, just less prominent.

Rebirth was actually pretty poor sales wise and why Didio ended it. It's also why they hired Bendis cause they think a big name like him will sell more and also why they focus on their biggest money making IP: Batman cause for some reason it sells more cause of the casual audience who sometimes may buy a comic cause it's Batman and edgy. Good story telling doesnt sell anymore it seems like

That's depressing to hear since Rebirth was all-around incredibly good and solid.

 

[Ionliosite]

Rebirth Supes > Everything Marvel has published since 2015 imo. Their constant relaunches since the Secret Wars show they have no idea what they're doing.

 

[The_Impress]

Rebirth Supes > Everything Marvel has published since 2015

REEEEEEEEEE

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I picked up a comic way before I picked up manga, but when I did pick it up. Oof I went for and now I read Light Novels, Visual Novel, actually watch a lot more anime, and even web comics from the east.

Off topic: Could you comic back on the namor thread please?

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Batman is the only one that consistently pulls big numbers even though its all dark and gritty with Snyder retconning his stories. The only good thing in DC is Doomsday clock even that is like one issue a year and some Vertigo. Even Vertigo was shut downed and combined with other. JL is confusing a bit. But its still better than Marvel.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

As a reader of manga and comics I'll say this: Comics are at a disadvantage due to their very nature. You have God knows how many writers who've worked on a character for a particular run. As such, the quality can vary wildly as a result. Tone and direction are also affected as well. This is why you can have people who won't read comics about a particular character for some time. I remember having a buddy who refused to read any Spider-Man stuff after One More Day. Or you can have opinions like 'Only Jim Starlin can write Thanos'.

Manga, on the hand, is usually one person's vision. Yes, quality can improve or dip but you know it's coming from a particular person. In addition, a lot of comics just go on, forever. And once you've read enough comics, you'll know the trends, the gimmicks, the everything. Most manga, should they be allowed to complete themselves, are contained stories with twists and turns that matter. Yes, they may get sequels, prequels or spin-offs, but they are their own tale with a beginning, middle and end. So, if you have a really good manga and it stays good, well you're opinion will probably remain positive about it.

With a comic, however, that opinion will often change. One writer may do an extremely good storyline but then the next comes in a ruins what their predecessor set up. Worse yet, that bad storyline becomes part of the character's history. Enough of such things can sour people's opinion of the character (*cough*Captain Marvel*cough*). And because the character's ongoing story doesn't end, the chances of a reader getting closure are...slim.

To sum: Manga are usually self contained stories that you can easily form an opinion about. Comics are every changing rollacoasters that can tire you out after a while and have a tendency to yank your chain.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

@c2 of omegon Also they have the same villains doing the same thing all over again. Most plots are repetitive. The characters are always the same never developing. Plus, they chunk out different comics of the same character at the same time by different writers. Spiderman alone has atleast three different comics released at the same time. There is no continuation most of the time. Captain Marvel has been like cancelled twice already this year. The only diversity we see in comics is their skin colour. Readers don't like stale stories.

 

[Andytrenom]

Mangas are just comics, why you people making a distinction?

 

[The_Impress]

... Did no one read Multiple Man, Unbelievable Gwenpool, Spider-Man: Life Story, Howard the Duck, Venom, Death of Daredevil, Lemire's Moon Knight or War of the Worlds? Like, all of those had an extremely unique story and great writing...

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It's more to distinct one culture of another in the talk about something like this. Also they're two different categories with how they are made relative to DC and Marvel vs 'Comics' from Japa

 

[Ionliosite]

Mangas are just comics, why you people making a distinction?

Because they are considered different mediums just like cartoons and anime.

 

[AKM sama]

Mangas are just comics, why you people making a distinction?

Because they are considered different mediums just like cartoons and anime.

That was a strikethrough. He wasn't serious.

 

[Andytrenom]

Anyway, this huh? I will admit, I have never picked up a DC comic in my life, but the cultural impact they had is something I recognize for the sheer fact that my address isn't a rock. I hope this won't actually end up in the company closing, I feel that would be legitimately one of the biggest hits that the entertainment industries can take in the present times.

Oh and I am also a big fan of live action series like Flash and Legends of Tomorrow, so I am not totally without personal investment in this situation, even if I don't have the childhood stories others have to tell

 

[Deleted member 2530]

I don't think they will shut it. It brings them billions in revenue.

 

[The_Impress]

I don't think they will shut it. It brings them billions in revenue.

The movies, yes.

The comics, big no.

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Wait, the comics don't bring it. I read a news article some time ago where it was said comics makes over a billion dollars

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The only manga I've actually read through was Mob Psycho 100; I've technically read more comics even though I'm more familiar with manga due to being an admin here

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Comics like Superman, Batman, Spiderman etc... have made over a billion dollars throughout their entire historical comic run. It's not the amount they bring in yearly.

E.g. Superman alone has grossed a total of 1.3 billion since around the beginning of Silver Age up until the present day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

 

[Jared1111]

"Superman has only grossed a billion dollars in 40 years."

... you mean just in comics right? Because I'm like 99% sure he's grossed way more in merchandising along in the past decade at least.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

E.g. Superman alone has grossed a total of 1.3 billion since around the beginning of Silver Age up until the present day.

To be entirely fair, most of DC's bank prior to the movies was in merchandising: something facilitated through the comics (and the cartoons/live action TV later). I'm sure if you looked at toy, clothing, and memorabilia sales since the silver age you'd have a much larger number.

It's just that they have the movies to roll in that money yearly while promoting merchandising far, far better.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Yes, just in comics. That's literally what we're talking about right now. Although the total revenue in everything is there for you too. Superman has grossed a total of 11 billion in everything it sells.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

While I can definitely see them downsizing, I would be very, very surprised if DC's comic publishing went away entirely.

Hard to say that this is a surprise though, considering the rampant cancellations of collected editions, the push to become more like Marvel (read: stupid) which was alienating more and more fans, and the rumored turmoil amongst the upper echelons of writers and editors.

It makes me sad to see the industry in freefall like it is, since I've been an avid comic reader my entire life.

 

[Doomrider7]

As a reader of manga and comics I'll say this: Comics are at a disadvantage due to their very nature. You have God knows how many writers who've worked on a character for a particular run. As such, the quality can vary wildly as a result. Tone and direction are also affected as well. This is why you can have people who won't read comics about a particular character for some time. I remember having a buddy who refused to read any Spider-Man stuff after One More Day. Or you can have opinions like 'Only Jim Starlin can write Thanos'.
Manga, on the hand, is usually one person's vision. Yes, quality can improve or dip but you know it's coming from a particular person. In addition, a lot of comics just go on, forever. And once you've read enough comics, you'll know the trends, the gimmicks, the everything. Most manga, should they be allowed to complete themselves, are contained stories with twists and turns that matter. Yes, they may get sequels, prequels or spin-offs, but they are their own tale with a beginning, middle and end. So, if you have a really good manga and it stays good, well you're opinion will probably remain positive about it.

With a comic, however, that opinion will often change. One writer may do an extremely good storyline but then the next comes in a ruins what their predecessor set up. Worse yet, that bad storyline becomes part of the character's history. Enough of such things can sour people's opinion of the character (*cough*Captain Marvel*cough*). And because the character's ongoing story doesn't end, the chances of a reader getting closure are...slim.

To sum: Manga are usually self contained stories that you can easily form an opinion about. Comics are every changing rollacoasters that can tire you out after a while and have a tendency to yank your chain.

Big this. I've had issues getting into a lot of comics due to how daunting it feels to jump into where I need to read not just the previous runs, but several other crossover runs as well just to feel up to date. And this is before getting into split run stuff where issue #6 of Superman's run is continued in Action Comics #23 or something which just adds to the confusion. Something like say One Piece is daun6to get into due to its sheer length, but once there it's a fairly straightforward line of continuity. There's also the issue of different writers and runs with radically differing quality and character interpretations.


The political stuff mentioned earlier is hardly relevant as that's been there since the inception of the medium in one way or another though authors can go on horribly distracting tracts from time, but overall it's a minuscule issue and if anything the diversity has likely been a major factor in keeping the medium from going under sooner.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

To be entirely fair, most of DC's bank prior to the movies was in merchandising: something facilitated through the comics (and the cartoons/live action TV later). I'm sure if you looked at toy, clothing, and memorabilia sales since the silver age you'd have a much larger number.

It's just that they have the movies to roll in that money yearly while promoting merchandising far, far better.

That's generally how it is for most things. Pokemon is the highest grossing franchise, at it makes the vast majority of its revenue through merchandising. Star Wars is another good example. About 10 billion in movie sales, but 40 billion in merchandising.