Possibly some bad DC Comics news

[Antvasima]

I love how instead of like, discussing DC Comics or even paying homage to them, this thread became "Let's flex on Western Comics by telling how much better manga is in comparison"

Like, I know this is a exaggeration, but at this point this feels derailing and borderline spiteful. It's the same as someone going to a Stan Lee Memorial event and saying "Yeah, but Dan Slott ******* ruined Spider-Man" on the stage. It's pointless and attacks the legacy of the subject

And FYI, I personally loathe DC in terms of their business practices and how they treat their IPs, but even then, this is super pushing it

My apologies for my participation in that then. I was wenting some of my frustration about the business practices of the current Marvel and DC Comics staff, not intending to bash the core traditional characters.

 

[Jared1111]

I don't know how accurate that Superman sales chart is, it mentions a one off book that states that from 1938-2007 Superman only made 1.7 Billion in total profit across all media yet in 2016 alone he made over 800 Million on profit JUST on merchandise.

I don't know just seems a bit low, though I guess sales data pre 1960 is hard to find.

Also the comic industry being a billion dollar a year one is mentioned in the Forbes article. Though only 35% of that goes directly to DC https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsal...-in-atts-vision-for-warnermedia/#44efe9ad79b7

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. Likely too controversial. Nothing to see here. Please carry on.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Now I want to see it even more.

 

[Antvasima]

I just mentioned the two people currently mainly respectively responsible for what has happened to Marvel and DC Comics recently, but it seemed best to drop it. I do not have a very good sense of judgement regarding what is or isn't appropriate to talk about.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Agreed

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Do Mangas sell more than Comics? I know that the top 10 mangas easily sell more than a million copies.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, they sell far more, and have even greater amounts of readers if all the scanslation sites are counted. The absolutely best selling superhero comicbooks are currently selling around 100000 copies an issue. One Piece has over 459 million copies in print around the world in sum total.

 

[Antvasima]

See here for further information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_comic_series

 

[Stefano4444]

Probably the first ever character I liked and loved, he was my hero, an inspiration, an idol...came out of DC Comics. Yes you guessed it...Superman.

My first DC character was also Superman (while Batman was the second), when i was a little kid my dad did buy videotapes which contained several episodes of Fleischer's Superman (the cartoon from the 40'), and while it was silly i love them and even now as an adult i still go watch them on youtube.

Since then i always have a soft spot for Superman, even if i didn't read any of comic books for most of my life, although i started to read comic books online, which incluse his own series.

 

[Js250476]

I remember hearing One Piece was close to overtaking Batman as the second best selling comic book series of all time.

 

[Ogbunabali]

snip

Oh man Fleischer's Superman cartoons are my childhood. I loved watching them.

 

[TartaChocholate]

I'm honestly shocked as well. I was just the other day thinking to myself how making a profiles for Superman would be hard given it's not like his stories would end soon. Though to be fair, I am pretty ignorant on the issue.

Given how meaningful icons such as Supes, Batman, Wonder Woman and many others are you'd think they would always be unstoppable, especially in this age where Superhero films are in full force gaining a whole new audience for them. I know about the issues about the DC films, but precisely how passionate fans are about their feelings regarding them I always thought the comics industry was going strong.

I really didn't expect DC could face troubles like this. I also had heard that Marvel also was having trouble on comic sales some time ago, but I thought it was exaggeration...

 

[Antvasima]

I remember hearing One Piece was close to overtaking Batman as the second best selling comic book series of all time.

Take into account that Batman has been around for 80 years, and One Piece only for 22 years, that One Piece is sold in collected editions rather than individual 22 page issues, and that the Weekly Shonen Jump issues featuring One Piece have also likely sold around 2 billion copies.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Just want to point out: Webcomics are still very likely to continue for DC if they do end up downsizing their hard-copy divisions.

Webcomics in general seem to have taken much of the spirit that the original DC and Marvel comics brought to the table. They take far more risks with their tone and themes, and while this can often lead to levels of degeneracy that rival modern Marvel and DC at their worst, it also leads to some of the best stories I've read to date.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also, we do also need to consider the differences between generations. Because entertainment/media in general wasn't as global in older periods as it is now. Originally, it was only wealthier or more advanced countries such as The U.S. and U.K. who had access to various video games, comics, or animated works. But now, the world is changing so that there's even plenty of people in Africa or the Middle Eastern region who have access to such things.

 

[PaChi2]

Let DC die.

If they didnt adapt to the audience, they deserve what they got. That's the market.

Sorry to hear it, though.

 

[Doomrider7]

Just want to point out: Webcomics are still very likely to continue for DC if they do end up downsizing their hard-copy divisions.

Webcomics in general seem to have taken much of the spirit that the original DC and Marvel comics brought to the table. They take far more risks with their tone and themes, and while this can often lead to levels of degeneracy that rival modern Marvel and DC at their worst, it also leads to some of the best stories I've read to date.

Agreed. Hiveworks, Tapas, Webtoons and several other sites individual or otherwise are just printing better stuff and with greater variety of voices and ideas.

 

[LordUrien935]

And just when DC was getting back on track too. Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, and the new Young Justice season are all incredible. Even their movies are somewhat improving (although they definitely aren't at the level of Marvel's best films).

I'm wondering why no one else is talking about it. I'm not seeing any mention of this in the DC subreddit, DC forums, the DC Universe blogs, or even social media sites like Instagram and Facebook.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Hiveworks, Tapas

Pleasently surprised to see these two on the front of your list. Webtoon gets all the rave here and on other sites, while Hiveworks and Tapas have equally awesome stuff to offer.

 

[UsernameMan12]

And just when DC was getting back on track too. Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, and the new Young Justice season are all incredible. Even their movies are somewhat improving (although they definitely aren't at the level of Marvel's best films).
I'm wondering why no one else is talking about it. I'm not seeing any mention of this in the DC subreddit, DC forums, the DC Universe blogs, or even social media sites like Instagram and Facebook.

Nah, new YJ season is all over the place with many plot threads and the cast is boring

 

[SuperAPM]

UsernameMan12

Plus its animation and pacing is all over the place

 

[UsernameMan12]

Let DC die.
If they didnt adapt to the audience, they deserve what they got. That's the market.

Sorry to hear it, though.

Nah, DC can write good comics and they still die out. Comics as a whole is losing popularity. Adapting to your audience just means making overrated family friendly blockbusters with good marketing and hype which Disney was smart enough to do while DC fails at, even with sucesses like Aquaman and Shazam

 

[UsernameMan12]

UsernameMan12
Plus its animation and pacing is all over the place

The animation is so lifeless

 

[Doomrider7]

Hiveworks, Tapas

Pleasently surprised to see these two on the front of your list. Webtoon gets all the rave here and on other sites, while Hiveworks and Tapas have equally awesome stuff to offer.

I only a few comics from Tapas like Gamercat and Erma while Webtoons has stuff like Hooky and Space Boy, both of which DESPERATELY DESERVE some good studios to animate. Hiveworks has a LOT of great stuff as well especially by names like Foglio's Girl Genius or stuff like Namesake.

 

[PaChi2]

"Nah, DC can write good comics and they still die out. Comics as a whole is losing popularity. Adapting to your audience just means making overrated family friendly blockbusters with good marketing and hype which Disney was smart enough to do while DC fails at, even with sucesses like Aquaman and Shazam"

I didnt mean that.

Comics can sell as much as manga because the target audience is basically the same and the product is more or less similar (in strict terms, the difference is mostly the art and some details).

But if the stories are bad, the setting is the same (why must we have "A DC multiverse"? Why cant we have independent stuff? Why do we have to retcon things once, twice, thrice?) and things dont evolve, the audience gets bored and moves on.

If superheroes are old, let's create something new.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

"If superheroes are old, let's create something new."

Ironically, this opinion ended up being the launching pad for a lot of new characters, stories and tropes that showed up in comics in the late '80s and the '90s. People were getting tired of superheroes back then too, and then characters like Swamp Thing and John Constantine started gaining popularity, works like Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's Watchme painted their superheroes in a completely different light, and independent imprints like Image Comics, Dark Horse Comics and Chaos! Comics sprang up and started giving the market a much-needed kick in the ass. And all of this actually prompted Marvel and DC to at least try to start diversifying their stories and characters a bit, because all of those good non-superhero stories in the '90s? They were selling, and they were selling hard.

And now, after about twenty years, it seems we've come full-circle. I can't help wondering what that's going to mean...

 

[Deleted member 2530]

"If superheroes are old, let's create something new."

Ironically, this opinion ended up being the launching pad for a lot of new characters, stories and tropes that showed up in comics in the late '80s and the '90s. People were getting tired of superheroes back then too, and then characters like Swamp Thing and John Constantine started gaining popularity, works like Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's Watchme painted their superheroes in a completely different light, and independent imprints like Image Comics, Dark Horse Comics and Chaos! Comics sprang up and started giving the market a much-needed kick in the ass. And all of this actually prompted Marvel and DC to at least try to start diversifying their stories and characters a bit, because all of those good non-superhero stories in the '90s? They were selling, and they were selling hard.

And now, after about twenty years, it seems we've come full-circle. I can't help wondering what that's going to mean...

Yeah. But with the MCU superhero sells the most. That's what they think but most of the MCU fans don't read comics or general. MCU is good and all but many forums are saturated by moronic comic book movie fans than comic fans. Doomsday actually has good sales despite huge breaks is because it is diifferent than most comics. If they only launch a character in a single storyline with the team up continuing their story it will be a bit more successful. Superman is currently in coma in doomsday clock, in antimatter universe in Justice league, in one of his own stories he is in earth and another he js in Krypton leading a revolution. They are doing the same thing that lead to them retconning in COIE. Also, constant retcon also possess many confusions. When the comics are doing rather than retconning it and later on facing the same problems they could just improve the storylines and fixing the problem.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

And now, after about twenty years, it seems we've come full-circle. I can't help wondering what that's going to mean...

We'll either hit a new age of comics, with industry revitalized and creativity abounding at the forefront. OR, it's all about go out not with a bang but a whimper. I don't think there will be a middle ground...

 

[UsernameMan12]

"If superheroes are old, let's create something new."
Ironically, this opinion ended up being the launching pad for a lot of new characters, stories and tropes that showed up in comics in the late '80s and the '90s. People were getting tired of superheroes back then too, and then characters like Swamp Thing and John Constantine started gaining popularity, works like Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's Watchme painted their superheroes in a completely different light, and independent imprints like Image Comics, Dark Horse Comics and Chaos! Comics sprang up and started giving the market a much-needed kick in the ass. And all of this actually prompted Marvel and DC to at least try to start diversifying their stories and characters a bit, because all of those good non-superhero stories in the '90s? They were selling, and they were selling hard.

And now, after about twenty years, it seems we've come full-circle. I can't help wondering what that's going to mean...

Would those stories even sell well today? Back then people weren't spoiled by superhero movies. Now DC did try stuff like Young Animal and Vertigo and it still gets cancelled in favor of black label with more endless Batstuff.

 

[Huesito88]

Because he's the Batma

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Username

1. That's an example of DC's not-terribly-wise decision making in recent years more than anything else. Many of their recent deviations from their established norm (the Dark Multiverse stuff comes to mind) have gotten more overall popularity than anything else they've done in recent years.

2. Take one look at The Walking Dead, The Luther Strode series, and even DC's own Swamp Thing live-action series, and how much popularity they got. (Latter's cancellation being in spite of its success rather than due to any lack of such) There's a market for this stuff. Companies just need to tap into it more.

 

[Andytrenom]

Is Swamp thing separate from the arrowverse stuff btw?

 

[UsernameMan12]

@Username
1. That's an example of DC's not-terribly-wise decision making in recent years more than anything else. Many of their recent deviations from their established norm (the Dark Multiverse stuff comes to mind) have gotten more overall popularity than anything else they've done in recent years.

2. Take one look at The Walking Dead, The Luther Strode series, and even DC's own Swamp Thing live-action series, and how much popularity they got. (Latter's cancellation being in spite of its success rather than due to any lack of such) There's a market for this stuff. Companies just need to tap into it more.

I agree DC should diversify but the Dark Multiverse stuff was just evil Batman fest. It was only popular due to the Batman IP, that's why fanfiction esque characters like the Batman who laughs is popular. Nothing was unique about it, the what if the hero turns evil has been overdone to death

 

[LordUrien935]

Is Swamp thing separate from the arrowverse stuff btw?

Yeah. If it's not on the DC Universe app, it's CW crap.

 

[UsernameMan12]

I also dont understand why the All-Star label was cancelled. All Star Superman was good stuff. They just need to hire passionate writers. We need more good elseworld stories. Black label is garbage trying to be dark

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Yeah. If it's not on the DC Universe app, it's CW crap.

Arrow was really good in the first season after that I left. The Flash is relatively good. Supergirl is just ripping off Siperman's villains and storylines.

 

[LordUrien935]

I think the failure of the DCEU is a major reason for why DC is on the downward slope. As they say, first impressions are important, and the first 4 movies are complete utter garbage. BvS and JL are some of the most expensive films ever made (Each had around $300 million for their budget) and I have no idea what they did with the money. If I took a wild guess, I'd say a good 2/3 of the budget was spent on cocaine, because neither looks like a 300 million dollar film. The massive box office bombs for the films is probably what led to Diane Nelson quitting and Geoff Johns being removed from his position.

 

[UsernameMan12]

Don't hire hacks to direct your most famous characters. Batman already had Burton films and Nolan films, Wonder Woman's movie was okay and made her more popular, Flash has a tv show, Cyborg is a not an A-lister, Aquaman and Shazam are doing good as well. But Superman? DC's golden boy and the original superhero is handled horribly by DC, they make garbage like Man of Steel for his 75th anniversary. They need to hire people who care about the character and aren't hacks with giant egos like Snyder and Goyer. The only DC A-lister who's gotten as bad treatment is Hal Jordan. (GL TAS cancelled, 2011 movie staining the character's popularity)

 

[Huesito88]

Infinity War was 300 million also. Never forget that 25 million amazing looking cgi mustache removal.