Possibly some bad DC Comics news

[UsernameMan12]

Kinda reminds me of the rumor for the Cell Saga where almost every choice Toriyama made was either vetoed or discouraged by his editor so he had to change the villain like 4 times just to satisfy them.
Manga creators certainly don't have much "freedom" as people like to pretend. Even the original DB I heard really didn't get much traction til the Tournament arc, and that's why almost every Shonen series has a forced Tournament arc to appease fans, or to get a series more publicity. Manga are merchandising machines and are often treated as such.

That's why manga like One Piece have horrible pacing, you could tell by Dressrosa. After the timeskip the quality took a hit which was also when One Piece was peaking in popularity. One Piece is super popular in Japan and merchandise sells like hot cakes so shonen jump or whoever is probably making Oda drag it out longer than it needs to be.

 

[Antvasima]

Not true.

The manga industry is suffering from something called "the masala formula problem" which Bollywood and Sandalwood are currently suffering through.

What is happening is that editors and businessmen are essentially asking writers to stick to certain formulas and emulate other works. Writers who don't do so get sidelined and their works get cancelled despite being of good quality.

Well, I have noticed a much greater variety of available genres and styles, along with considerably greater depths of insight about the nature of reality from manga creators such as NisioisiN, but I am sure that you likely are correct about the shounen genre.

 

[Amexim]

The politics angle on it being brought up here is pretty... Yikes. I mean, most of the time those who use the argument are failing to take into account the history of comics doing political shit, act like politics is neither affected by, nor affecting art and creative outlets, and that this is new, wrong, or somehow astonishing in its uniqueness or whatever... And don't even get me started on how instead of criticizing bad politics, like really cringey shit that any and everyone thinks is dumb and fails to appropriately frame their topic in a way that works, they decry it's existence period, when things like this are necessary but must be handled well. I want to see Captain America stand up for human rights every where and at the very least be against this Tomi Lauren tier xenophobia in the US. Kinda like the actor did lmao

Point is; Yeah, it's totally politics and not the fact that it's an outdated medium with next to no advertisement of the actual content aside from other forms of media that don't really require interacting with the source material. People cutting captain marvel's hair is totally why lol

 

[Antvasima]

The politics used to be very basic axioms, such as "stand up against tyranny", and the stories were mainly focused on entertainment. Nowadays the tendency has turned far more extreme, slanted, and pervasive/all-encompassing/inescapable within the narratives, with anybody who disagrees in the slightest and doesn't boot step systematically blacklisted by the industry, so there is no variety of thought available anymore. There has been an enormous shift in recent years, whether or not we like to admit it.

That said, this discussion is starting to take a too controversial direction, so it may be time to close this thread.

 

[UsernameMan12]

The politics angle on it being brought up here is pretty... Yikes. I mean, most of the time those who use the argument are failing to take into account the history of comics doing political shit, act like politics is neither affected by, nor affecting art and creative outlets, and that this is new, wrong, or somehow astonishing in its uniqueness or whatever... And don't even get me started on how instead of criticizing bad politics, like really cringey shit that any and everyone thinks is dumb and fails to appropriately frame their topic in a way that works, they decry it's existence period, when things like this are necessary but must be handled well. I want to see Captain America stand up for human rights every where and at the very least be against this Tomi Lauren tier xenophobia in the US. Kinda like the actor did lmao
Point is; Yeah, it's totally politics and not the fact that it's an outdated medium with next to no advertisement of the actual content aside from other forms of media that don't really require interacting with the source material. People cutting captain marvel's hair is totally why lol

Politics is fine if it's apart of the character (X-Men and their civil rights allegory) but sometimes it feels forced from the writer, like they're expressing their political opinions through their story which is a big nope.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Speaking of which, I heard Japan has a rule against protagonists who are older than late 20's. Rurouni Kenshin's creator originally wanted him to be in his 30's, but the publisher said that was too old for "manga for teens" protagonist, so they made him 28 instead. And that rule is especially true in Visual Novels. The creator of Zero Escape wanted to have a protagonists in his 40's; but due to that rule, he made the main character a college student instead. And later made hints of it in the next installment, about wanting the main character to be middle aged.

 

[UsernameMan12]

They probably think younger protagonists resonate better which means more sales.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I mean, Goku's in, like, his 50s now.

Maybe it's more of thing that younger characters will resonate with the younger audience but as time goes on, you age the character as the audience also ages?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, that is unfortunate, but at least it isn't a complete eradication of all true variation in analytical perspective that has turned so pervasive in western entertainment.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, it more so applies to human characters; Aliens, demons, ect could be much older. InuYasha for example is 200 years old, but his physical age is only 15. And Goku does age slower due to being a Saiyan.

 

[Amexim]

But the idea of giving "variation" in political positions is a dubious one. Extremists who are for race based tyranny like to frame people not taking their shit as an option full stop as "not seeing all sides", and that's because they want to frame their ideals as viable choices so that they can hurt people. It's really bad, and unless the comics industry does things that aren't as fair as "no Nazi writers" or "no racist apologetics", i'd say the problem isn't the narratives but how they present them. Like Steven Universe's lack of real lgbt representation, because they refuse to say "girlfriend" like it's some sort of crime. Or how having redemption arcs for genocidal dictators is a really bad message. Things like that are free to tear apart in my eyes, but when you have shit be based in "politics bad" and "why can't we say mean things about people of color" or whatever, and not saying you do Ant, it's nothing but a yikes to me.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Isn't the reason why SU can't say girlfriend is because the censors won't let them though, so that's entirely the best comparison. I heard it took a huge push just to get the Garnet marriage in. Still though, I agree with the rest of your point.

 

[Antvasima]

I obviously have nothing against condemning genuine National Socialist, Communist, Islamist, or Racist politics, as all of them are tyrannical and genocidal. I am saying that any different analytical perspectives or moderate conservative writers and opinions whatsoever are currently systematically censored, character-assassinated, and blacklisted. That is no different from imposing extremely intolerant systematic brainwashing and mental tyranny/slavery.

Anyway, we have now reached the point where this discussion will inevitably turn far too controversial for a mostly harmless entertainment wiki, so I will close the thread. It is probably best if other staff members do not open it again.