One Piece Discussion Thread Fourteen Marineford

[PlumCrayfish376]

It is unfortunately you Fix that is misunderstanding. Migue redid the formula and apply that to another series, not One Piece. Check Stefano4444 to see the One Piece version.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Found it. Since no one linked Stefano's calc in Damage's thread I was not aware. Thanks @Plum

EDIT: Someone needs to link it to the profiles assuming it has been properly approved.

 

[CinCameron20]

Omfg the arguments here regarding WSS/WSC/WSM are absolutely STUPID. If we take it at face-value:

Whitebeard is stronger than any other human(oid) in the world, But then Kaido's title is contradicting that, but then we never heard of him being the WSC until after time-skip, and then Mihawk is "stronger than anyone with a sword".

Whitebeard's is the only one that's really justified to mean "Stronger than anyone" since he is feared by ALL of the marines (They set up the 3 Admirals, tried to get the 7 Shichibukai, and pulled in all of their Vice Admirals and main forces just to deal with him and his crew), not to mention he face-rolled Akainu while missing part of his head and he had a hole in his sternum.

Kaido being labeled as the "World's Strongest Creature" seems quite satire given that it would imply he is stronger than even WB (assuming he had the title when he was alive), and his nickname is "1000 beast kaido", and leads an army of Zoan Smile users.

As for Mihawk, I seriously doubt he battled every single sword-wielder in the world, and even if he did, someone like Whitebeard or Roger who uses a blade do no dedicate themselves to using such weapons. They use their blade as a supplement for their fighting forms, while Mihawk strictly uses blades and ONLY blades. You can use a sword, but if you're using hand-to-hand, guns, other weapons, and the blade is merely part of your whole fighting-style, are you REALLY a swordsman?

• Zoro never fights without his blades unless, like in Davyback, he has no blades to use.

Now the problem with this is the titles are comparing them to literally everything in that category, but 1) WB has not fought every single human in the world, 2) Kaido certainly has not fought every single creature in the world, and 3) Mihawk has not fought every sword-user in the world, or at least everyone who is a self-proclaimed swordsman.

 

[PsychoWarper]

In terms of pure physical strength who do you guys think is stronger: Kaido or Shirohige (Both in their primes)?

 

[Dr.Fix]

Yeah I take titles with a grain of salt. They need to have proper context to be used otherwise we have War-Lord Buggy and Yonko Luffy and contradictions galore.

Kaido's title came with his history of proving his strength against all the top players

WSM could just be a heavyweight lifting champion for all the reader knows.

 

[Eminiteable]

What is Rogers other fighting style? Oda is the one who gave them these titles and had given no actual reason to doubt it, the only argument against it that holds any weight is "well we don't know if they have proven it by defeating every other person" we don't need to see that, this isn't a case of death of the author as the author states it for us during the timeline that they hold these titles they are indeed what the title implies until proven otherwise not before.

 

[Eminiteable]

Mihawk also wasn't called the world's strongest swordsman in Rogers era and it is implied he did go around challenging people; for example shanks.

 

[CinCameron20]

Roger uses a sword, but he also has a gun, and he is also shown to be a brawler, but we don't know anything else beyond what is implied. He's designed to be a stereotypical pirate.

He has no "other fighting style" that we know of. Using a blade is just part of it.

 

[Eminiteable]

When was he shown being a brawler? Because he held up a fodder marine by the neck? For all we know the marine wasn't worth using a sword or said sword was already used to cut him down and Roger lifted him to say that little message.

Also unlike the Warlord and Yonko status the Worlds storngest is self implied and isn't shown to be made up of other variables other than strength, false equivalents.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Honestly Roger seems like he just fights with what ever he has, weather its a sword, gun or whatever he just seems seems to use what hes got.

Though we havnt seen nearly enough to really say what he is atm.

 

[Eminiteable]

Also I think I already mentioned this put all the current haki abilities shown are applicable with a sword, and honestly yeah you could say roger if he wanted to could take down some people with his fists, but, considering hes used his sword to fight/clash and take down opponents close to his tier it can easily be assumed that swordsmanship is Rogers strongest means of combat.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I still bet on Roger and Shanks being HH Masters

 

[Eminiteable]

I mean I guess it's a fair bet considering they're both like Luffy role models, but I sorta always took that as Luffy being unique in a sense among pirates only using his fists.

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, wait, so the 6-B is NOT invalid now?? Ugh, if that's the case, the discussion regarding upgrades was put on hold almost 2 weeks for literally no reason >:/

 

[CinCameron20]

@Damage - Ah, i read a mistranslation about how long the battle lasted. I thought the clouds were rolled in within the time-frame of them clashing and then beginning the battle. Nevermind~

But the panel shows the battle starting, SO I ASSUME that still happened, unless we skipped ahead partially for no reason >_>

 

[Damage3245]

@Cin; the calc in its current state was wrong, so the revisions were rightly put on pause. It just turns out that there is now a method that can be used to get the right result.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Also if all titles are taking at face value then how would we take Dragons title of "The World's Most-Dangerous Criminal"? Since that implies hes more dangerous than any Pirate, he even held the title when WB was alive.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@Cin Are you willing and able to make the edits now?

 

[Eminiteable]

Danger =\= strength, Dragon could be top tier for all I know but he is dangerous due to the threat the Revolutionaries poses to the current world system where as Whitebeard was a pirate and wasn't really going to war with the Government other than being a pirate.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Fix and Damage - If the results are going to change at all, I'll probably wait since anything could happen regarding WB's placement. Could be lower or higher from what I gather.

But if you want me to make the changes right now, i will do so. Law's tier is the only one that needs discussed, as I doubt he'd last as long as he did against Doflamingo, Fujitora, or Black Knight if he were <1/1000 any of them, even w/ Hax. (Just a reminder, Law is currently 7-A+ while Fuji/BK are At least High 6-C after changes, and Doffy Poss Low 6-B. This dude managed to avoid capture from Fuji + Doffy together for several minutes)

 

[Ryuga21]

Zoro pushes back Fujitora with a air slash. Law should be comparable to him at very least.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

Roger should get Air Manipulation for his air slash he did against Oden

 

[Ryuga21]

Limited

 

[PsychoWarper]

Danger =\= strength, Dragon could be top tier for all I know but he is dangerous due to the threat the Revolutionaries poses to the current world system where as Whitebeard was a pirate and wasn't really going to war with the Government other than being a pirate.

Alright fair.

 

[CinCameron20]

We don't know exactly what Dragon did, but I'm sure he has taken down a large number of marines + their bases, and is more directly focused on destroying the Celestial Dragons more than anything. He could have taken down countless marine bases that could have been at the level of the whole Enies Lobby fiasco, taken out notable marine officials and nobles, had direct combat with the Admirals, or even managed to MURDER a Celestial Dragon.

It's my opinion that the Rev army is a major threat because they are seen more reliable to citizens than the WG at times. We had that incident w/ Peachbeard as an example, where they were given contact info to the Rev Army, so I believe they influenced countless small regions to turn their back on the WG for turning a blind eye to them. At the same time, this would inspire many people to join their cause. The WG would not want this to be wide-spread, as the entire world would enter a possible civil war between the WG and the Rev Army if they got large enough.

All we do know is that Dragon leads an army, and he's been a major threat to the marines for x reasons. Right now, it's impossible to guess why he is "most wanted" over the likes of Whitebeard (I would include Roger, but he likely died before Dragon's notoriety had increased).

 

[Eminiteable]

You just wrote down and summed up why he is the most wanted.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Btw, whatever happened to Zoro getting higher via Shishi Sonson? I remember there being a discussion about it a few months ago. And why doesn't Zoro also have higher for Asura?

 

[KobsterHope07]

@ RoronoaxRobin - I blame procrastination and forgetfulness on my part

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I know the chapter is much more important, but as a quick reminder, the Law DLC for OP: World Seeker came out.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Wait, Law is now available for World Seeker?! Hell yeah. Just waiting til Christmas to finally play the game

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Yup, Luffy, Zoro, Sabo, and now Law are all available as long as you get all of the DLC. I will say that Law is pretty fun to play as and I like his gimmicks.

 

[Ifeano0]

@damage:
1. Kaido was never called WSC until WB died.

2. I never even mentioned titles, I just showed a scan saying that Zoro will become the greatest swordsman ever and noted that Roger was a swordsman. No titles being mentioned here at all.

again kaido was called worlds strongest creature while WB was alive this is shown in the ace novel

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I have finished the Law DLC and I will say that it wasn't that bad at all, was actually a little fun. Law as a character is actually really good and his range attacks are pretty broken and he's really fun for me. But damn, there are so many light dodging feats in this dlc, it's insane...

 

[LordWhis]

Zoro pushes back Fujitora with a air slash. Law should be comparable to him at very least.

It's not like this is on his profile. But to be fair on this wiki if Zoro solos Kaido people will probably say his sword ignores durability and he's still 7A.

 

[LordWhis]

not to mention he face-rolled Akainu while missing part of his head and he had a hole in his sternum.

It's not like he got those wounds from Akainu or anything.

The thing is that isn't Zoro's goal to become the man with the title of strongest swordsman in the world.

His goal is to become the strongest/greatest swordsman ever. He doesn't care about the title or the fame, he cares about the power.

He wants to become the best not the man with a title saying he is the best.

 

[CinCameron20]

You just wrote down and summed up why he is the most wanted.

? It's pure speculation, not fact. All that was fact is that the Rev Army is catering to the citizens to get them on their side. Also, caring for them.

 

[Damage3245]

I still want to discuss these upgrades more when the time comes. I don't believe they should be upgraded.

 

[Ryuga21]

Zoro pushes back Fujitora with a air slash. Law should be comparable to him at very least.

It's not like this is on his profile. But to be fair on this wiki if Zoro solos Kaido people will probably say his sword ignores durability and he's still 7A.

I didn't say that this is on his profile. It's should be (probably). Maybe with a "likely" or "probably", Gear Third is Fuji level for the same reason after all, Zoro was too casual and could send his back, he also could to break free of his gravity stomp. So yeah, Zoro has some feats to probably scale from Fujitora.

 

[Eminiteable]

? It's pure speculation, not fact. All that was fact is that the Rev Army is catering to the citizens to get them on their side. Also, caring for them.

It is pure speculation but if there was any reason for him to be the most dangerous man it would likely be due to being the leader of the Revolutionaries or like you said actions he's done in the past.

 

[Damage3245]

It's extremely unlikely that Fujitora was using anything close to his full power; all he was doing was pinning Zoro down to keep him from interfering and then he easily blocked Zoro's flying slash.

Zoro never hurt him or pressured him at any point.