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honestly i want f/gos main story to finish so nasu can focus on other projects unrelated to fate, like the other side of red gardenSounds like the doom posters just want attention and likes if this is the case
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honestly i want f/gos main story to finish so nasu can focus on other projects unrelated to fate, like the other side of red gardenSounds like the doom posters just want attention and likes if this is the case
This was made some days ago, but had to comment:Maybe because the erasure of souls system didn't need to be that complicated since no one is able to survive from it in the first place ?
Shiki could also destroy his soul since she directly gets her hax from the Root, just like SHS. It's just that there was no need for such a powerful thing to simply erase souls in the cycle of life. There are maybe issues in how Roa's soul is being handled here, but to be honest I can't be bothered in searching if and how it's really the case.
I have an opinion that, though never stated, has some merit (or at least I think so) - 「 」is trying to define something that is "boundless". That is, it is a boundary around something that should lack boundaries. This seems like a contradiction, but it actually follows the logic of the Nasuverse, because:“If you really wished to pronounce the term, call it「Kara」”
This first line is the second most important part of the entire statement. It claims that 「 」meant Kara. A Japanese word for “Emptiness” or “Nothingness.” 「 」is an Apophatic attempt to describe what the ineffable 「 」is. That means the symbol 「 」is God. In short, 「 」is the silent way of saying God(Apophatic Theology) by saying nothing or doing nothing, which makes quite a lot of sense since its translation is called “Kara,” which also means “Nothingness.”
“Its meaning varied depending on each individual's understanding. To put it in simple terms, it was the Spiral of Origin.”
So, while it is ONE thing, it doesn't have any type of limit or boundary, the "thing" that defines anything as "one thing". It can only be such because it is the realm where this contradiction, or co-existence of opposites, can be in the same place, together.As stated by law, emptiness is a territory of freedom. Free from binary opposition, it is the heart that contemplate the world both as it should be and as it is.
01 - Golden Grail [EX]
The golden grail that BB owns. Also called the Holy Grail.
A negative grail that grants its owner's impudent and selfish wishes.
The grail held by the great ***** of Babylon who appears in the Revelation to John. Though it is a fake Holy Grail, it is for that reason that it has become a "genuine" Holy Grail that grants the desires of humans regardless of right or wrong.
And it seems to indeed be the case, looking at some people's comments on both recent CRTs and discord.There are maybe issues in how Roa's soul is being handled here, but to be honest I can't be bothered in searching if and how it's really the case.
This whole comment was rather useless because of this :
And it seems to indeed be the case, looking at some people's comments on both recent CRTs and discord.
So yeah I was right, there is an issue somewhere.
Here.Do you have a link to the CRT where Roa's soul was discussed?
I can maybe try searching it up. I can think of some things that may be happening, but it would involve rereading Fate games and Tsuki, aka, lots of quotations and searching.
Roa's soul is at least described (emphasis in described, as in, different words, that may or may not be a different in lore thing) differently in Tsuki/TsukiRe, and in Fate games souls are again given descriptions that are hard to piece together. It's easy to see how trying to aggregate all that lore in one idea may go wrong somehow. One of the things that is hard to get around is what exactly Roa did to/with his soul, especilly because souls in Nasu are weird.
So servants are pretty much unmatchable against non-nasuverse characters, is there any possible verse left that could work then?That note should probably be removed.
In short, most servants are hard to match make with as they, as Divine Mysteries, negate all damage that does not have Mystery. Heracles takes this a level beyond with God Hand.
Most servant match ups are with D&D characters or other servants because the ability to ignore Invulnerability on this scale is rare. Although now that servants are much higher in tier 6, D&D matches are also likely to go away. So basically, you don't have to worry about God Hand if you use servants or other Nasu characters.
And here I thought that it was "If it's on the same tier as his durability, it will affect him. Otherwise, it's game over"That note should probably be removed.
In short, most servants are hard to match make with as they, as Divine Mysteries, negate all damage that does not have Mystery. Heracles takes this a level beyond with God Hand.
Most servant match ups are with D&D characters or other servants because the ability to ignore Invulnerability on this scale is rare. Although now that servants are much higher in tier 6, D&D matches are also likely to go away. So basically, you don't have to worry about God Hand if you use servants or other Nasu characters.
And here I thought that it was "If it's on the same tier as his durability, it will affect him. Otherwise, it's game over"
Also, isn't Mystery vaguely defined as anything supernatural by the standards of the modern world?
......I thank you for service in explaining this fact but I humbly request that you translate this information like you're talking to a casual visual media (movies, animation, comic books, etc) geek who's knowledge of philosophy and physics is only "slept on the table" highschool levelIt's more like higher mystery = wider range of possible flow of phenomena, it's in KNK. A, so to say, variable answer (outcome) to the same question (process), or vice-versa (because the piling up of time itself, and therefore the perception of what is the process and what is the outcome is itself a human thing). The interpretation of Mystery = supernatural falls flat really fast when things like "the mystery of the metamorphosis of butterflies" is invoked for Pappilo Magia or things like that, or when True Ancestors or Elementals are basically "Nature" Incarnate.
It's a mystery not in the sense that it is a secret ("A" process = "A" outcome, but you don't know that), but in the sense that it's mysterious. You could, maybe, even say that the making of this mystery a secret by Age of Man (the "shining of the light" of science upon its darkness) is the thing that lead to its decline in AoM.
I can't remember exactly, but even the use of "supernatural" here is very questionable. As far as I can remember, Nasuverse itself always make the opposition of natural (and here the natural would include the magical shit, Elementals, Fairies, Mana itself - Marble Phantasms, for example) and artificial (that is written, in kanji, basically as man-made, that is also the meaning in english, but people tend to forget that), and Nature Incarnate themselves being basically one of the highest types of Mystery, calling it SUPERnatural would be contraditory.
Believe me, I understand your feelings, he talk in a unnecessarily complex and weird way that make things hard to understand, so to answer the question:......I thank you for service in explaining this fact but I humbly request that you translate this information like you're talking to a casual visual media (movies, animation, comic books, etc) geek who's knowledge of philosophy and physics is only "slept on the table" highschool level
Essentially speaking yes, is anything supernatural, however due to the standards of the verse itself with all the detailed background information, mystery is accepted at minimum as 4D in nature in the wiki, which is why servants can't have matches against non-smurfs, and even then the opponent need to be a strong smurf to also bypass the servants resistances and such.Also, isn't Mystery vaguely defined as anything supernatural by the standards of the modern world?
That is actually the way the things are described in the novel itself, so if they are unnecesarily complex or weird, blame NasuBelieve me, I understand your feelings, he talk in a unnecessarily complex and weird way that make things hard to understand, so to answer the question:
To claim "Mystery = Supernatural", using Nasuverse in-lore, is problematic because the things that are natural are one of the most mysterious of the things in the verse, for example, True Ancestors and Marble Phantasms. It's hard to explain not phylosophically because the basis of the very verse is philosophical as ****. (with Waifus, because waifus make every better)......I thank you for service in explaining this fact but I humbly request that you translate this information like you're talking to a casual visual media (movies, animation, comic books, etc) geek who's knowledge of philosophy and physics is only "slept on the table" highschool level
Cool, that isn't excuse to write such post purposely complex for a really simple question, something that btw you do in general each time you post (even with really simple questions).That is actually the way the things are described in the novel itself, so if they are unnecesarily complex or weird, blame Nasu
Is supernatural, the things you are mentioning are supernatural by the definition, things like vampires, authorities, magic, etc.To claim "Mystery = Supernatural", using Nasuverse in-lore, is problematic because the things that are natural are one of the most mysterious of the things in the verse, for example, True Ancestors and Marble Phantasms. It's hard to explain not phylosophically because the basis of the very verse is philosophical as ****. (with Waifus, because waifus make every better)
The definition of Mystery just doesn't translate to other works (or to any deterministic description) because it is not something that is merely hidden, but something that actually cannot be explained, at least in a specific point in time by the humans. This is a main point of Waver's "Sherlock-esque" problem solving, he never try to discover the HOW something was done in cases involving Mystery/Magecraft, because that's futile.
So, for example, "Kami", the natural god-like spirits of nature - you may call them supernatural in our reality, they do have Mystery in the context of Nasuverse, but they are literally NATURE ITSELF in Nasuverse, so calling them supernatural is like calling physical matter metaphysical. It's a contradiction from the beginning.
Cool, that isn't excuse to write such post purposely complex for a really simple question, something that btw you do in general each time you post (even with really simple questions).
Is supernatural, the things you are mentioning are supernatural by the definition, things like vampires, authorities, magic, etc.
Also, that example about gods is so wrong because in real life nature and concepts don't manifest as physical beings with their own personalities and superpowers, that is the most blatant definition of supernatural that there can exist. Additionally, nature itself taking form in fiction is pretty common but that don't make it any less supernatural.
Dude, if you want to have such a unnecessarily weird and incorrect view of things, and you are happy with it, then fine, you are in your right.You are literally not talking about Nasuverse anymore. The way you are using words, you can call Mystery Chi and itcould be right. And you are not even right, that's the point, because Kami actually were believed to be manifested in nature itself and not apart from the physical reality we live in, but you are forcing western metaphyisical interpretations upon things that just never had any influence or even contact with them...
It's okay to not understand what something is trying to say, specially because it's a translation + it's not trying to be easy to understand in the first place, but you are not explaining them, you are just confusing the verse concepts with different things...
Thanks, now that you have given me permission, I will gladly continue.Dude, if you want to have such a unnecessarily weird and incorrect view of things, and you are happy with it, then fine, you are in your right.
what verse can actually be matchable with servants now?Thanks, now that you have given me permission, I will gladly continue.
I believe you have to get around 4D resistance/hax.what verse can actually be matchable with servants now?
According to the wiki, it's because it's above dimensional theory and has apophatic theology(mistakened for []) which are both 1A justifications by default.Hi guys, Here's a question: in Nasuverse there are confirmed dimensions only for 1-C. Why Root is 1-A?
Buut dimensional theory within Nasuverse only scales to 1-C...According to the wiki, it's because it's above dimensional theory and has apophatic theology(mistakened for []) which are both 1A justifications by default.
That's not how it worksBuut dimensional theory within Nasuverse only scales to 1-C...
A 1-A entity doesn’t need an infinite hierarchy to get this tier.Buut dimensional theory within Nasuverse only scales to 1-C...
Current CRT will change this.A 1-A entity doesn’t need an infinite hierarchy to get this tier.
It would still be 1A via Apophatic TheologyOh shit
Is there a link for this or is it WIP?Current CRT will change this.
Staff discussionIs there a link for this or is it WIP?
That thread about apphatic theology in nasuverse is getting clappedIt would still be 1A via Apophatic Theology
Huh??That thread about apphatic theology in nasuverse is getting clapped
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOThat thread about apphatic theology in nasuverse is getting clapped
Not really. Even DT doesn't agree with Apophatic stuff (or related). Overvoid is in a very similar situation with it being above all conceptions and its downgrade to 1-C will be cemented and also result in downgrade of The Root if the thread passes.It would still be 1A via Apophatic Theology
It doesn't contradict apophatic theology.And you do realize how badly that contradicts apophatic Theology? The biggest issue is the fact that Roa can reach and survive the root. Something beyond description, comprehension and only reached by negation is supposed to never be reachable to Roa and even if it somehow was, it's supposed to completely erase him yet he can withstand thay using magic of what? Why can he resist something that's supposedly apophatic in nature? Makes no sense.
DT doesn't agree to give it a tier just for the sake of itNot really. Even DT doesn't agree with Apophatic stuff (or related). Overvoid is in a very similar situation with it being above all conceptions and its downgrade to 1-C will be cemented and also result in downgrade of The Root if the thread passes.
Overvoid doesn't even have Apophatic Theology. DT barely knows anything about Apophatic Theology. It's Ultima who understands it. And Apophatic Theology is already a justification used on this site.Not really. Even DT doesn't agree with Apophatic stuff (or related). Overvoid is in a very similar situation with it being above all conceptions and its downgrade to 1-C will be cemented and also result in downgrade of The Root if the thread passes.
souls passing it is already bs. Souls logically arent supposed to reach an Apophatic entity which is why I keep saying root is different from「 」but I'm not ready to argue thay againIt doesn't contradict apophatic theology.
Roa can't reach and survive the root. Every soul pass through the root.
Now you see, here is the exact reason why Ultima tried making Apophatic Theology tier 0. Because an apophatic being is beyond description and comprehension thus unreachable and ineffable which makes it tier 0 because not even language can comprehend it. It being 1A is already bs which is exactly what Ultima explained in the past.Being beyond description comprehension etc doesn't mean it's not reachable (otherwise would just be tier 0)
Concepts also trace on till they reach the root which also contradicts the root being unreachable.Magic litteraly came from the root so having a advanced part of it being able to do it is not that streched.
They nothing that stop soul reaching an apopathic entity (even more when the whole verse exist within it and that without bs soul are on same level than the root).souls passing it is already bs. Souls logically arent supposed to reach an Apophatic entity which is why I keep saying root is different from「 」but I'm not ready to argue thay again
Now you see, here is the exact reason why Ultima tried making Apophatic Theology tier 0. Because an apophatic being is beyond description and comprehension thus unreachable and ineffable which makes it tier 0 because not even language can comprehend it. It being 1A is already bs which is exactly what Ultima explained in the past.
Concepts also trace on till they reach the root which also contradicts the root being unreachable.
Oh sweet summer child..Overvoid doesn't even have Apophatic Theology. DT barely knows anything about Apophatic Theology. It's Ultima who understands it. And Apophatic Theology is already a justification used on this site.
Can't tell me this doesn't essentially just sound like The Root.The Monitor-Mind is the unconscious void of nothingness that lies as the background of all creation, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledge of the Source Wall wherein Thought itself ceases to be and all dual concepts are dissolved into unity. Represents the white canvas of the comicbook itself, being the ground of being in which all characters and concepts of DC Comics are drawn in, and acting as the middle ground between the fictional reality occupied by them and the world of the Writer