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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

SPOILER_unknown.png


Why Van Gogh is female.
 

WARNING : Including A LOT OF lores/spoilers of ~ Lostbelt 5 and Imaginary Scramble’s story (November 14th), so anyone who’s planning to fully enjoy the story PLZ WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATORS.

WARNING 2 : Since the event story is still not finished all of the info here are tentative to changes.



Source : 閑話3 (Secret Story 3)、第4幕　潮解する怪理（3/3）



About “Outer Gods”



  • Per Gilles Caster’s lecture, our newly introduced lore professor, there are 7 noteworthy characteristics about them
    • 1. Absurdly large, GROSS and strong
    • 2. Do not abide by physical or magical laws and thus making them normally impossible to interact or communicate with
    • (IMPORTANT) 3. They claim themselves of “the rightful ownership of the planet earth” and as “the creator (written as “inventor” in the original Japanese text) of earth’s lifeforms”
      • ...Isn’t there a familiar looking face claiming themselves as “the president of the earth” while dressing and acting like Kim-Jong-Un???
      • Yep, according to this theory of Gilles all lifeforms, including humanity, are created/developed by these eldritch beings. BRETHREN MOON IS THAT YOU?
    • 4. If we somehow decide to abide by their demands and leave the earth in their care, well, no one knows what exactly will happen but it’ll definitely become a VERY BAD NEW.
    • (IMPORTANT) 5. Most of them are currently sealed.
      • Maybe it’s time for me to reread EoR4. I suspect that I might find a lead that could tell me why the outer gods start appearing in FGO’s universe in the first place ‘cause I already forgot most details of this chapter…
    • (IMPORTANT) 6. While they mostly act independently, some are allying themselves to other(s). Hostile relationships among them are also present.
    • (IMPORTANT) 7. They are not conceptually invincible/immortal. They simply possess flesh bodies. The true nature of substances that made up their bodies are simply too incomprehensible/alien for us. That’s why they are TECHNICALLY KILLABLE AND possess LIMITED LIFESPAN.
About the Foreigner class



  • Gilles’ statement again, he thinks that, rather than describing them as a “priestess”, a “vessel”, an “avatar” or a “replica” of the gods, it’s more accurate to identify them as “(Anti) Hero”.
    • Outer gods can only interfere with our world using “Throne of Heroes”. And using himself as an example, he tells us that madness and vice will eventually give birth to terrifying legends and eventually, Anti-Heroic Spirits like himself or Medusa etc.
      • And Foreigners are in fact infancy Anti-Heroic Spirits, individuals who are on the process of getting engraved to the throne as Anti-Heroes. So basically outer gods exploit the birthing process of an Anti-Hero to create a proxy for themselves to interact with our world.…Isn’t there a certain being who has modified THREE heroic spirits saint graph to act as their emissaries…? (Their class aren’t foreigners though)
  • BTW Gilles was totally silent and had no comment when asked about “Then what’s about her (XX)?” by Sion (LOL)
About Van Gogh



  • All of the infobits here come from Xiang Yu’s predictions + Nemo’s and Skadi’s speculations so it’s still tentative atm (but imo they are almost 100% certain)
  • There is an outer god who’s planning to invade our world through Imaginary Number Space. This being planned to use INS as it’s base of operations and some foreigners as it’s lackeys. So first they searched for an individual heroic spirit with suitable property/abilities to remodel IMS as the god’s new HQ for invading the earth. One of it’s required target is Hokusai since she has the potential to reshape INS and enable it to interact with our world (since our world is “real number”, which makes it theoretically impossible for INS to interact with us, in normal cases). However the problem is that Hokusai has the skill “Father-Daughter Bond” which prevents the corruption/maddening effect of the outer god from spreading, and her “Item Contruction” rank is also too low to enable her to reshape INS to fit the outer god’s objective.
  • That problem lead the god to shift it’s first priority towards Vincent Van Gogh, an artist who was approached by an outer god through his artworks. Not only that he’s one of the Foreigner who can live within INS without any help, his NP as an heroic spirit “De Sterrennacht (The Starry Night” also has the ability to modify and enhance Foreigners, and also forcefully “deific” them (deification of a Foreigner = amplifying the intensity of their “Insanity” skill, ascending their Saint Graph and making them closer to the outer god they represent).
  • With this reason Vincent became an essential part for it’s invasion plan but the problem is Vincent was a brave and noble individual who denies and rejects the approach of the outer god until the end of his life (his suicide in FGO is interpreted as his final attempt to not fall under the god’s influence). These traits of “absolute denial of any outer god” and “I will definitely suicide if I see any prospect of myself getting controlled by an outer god” is deeply engraved in his Spirit Origin’s record in the throne so he won’t succumb to the outer god’s control and use his NP for his sake even if he was summoned normally…
  • This forced the outer god to improvise Vincent and artificially fused him with another Heroic Spirit, Cyltia, the water nymph daughter of Oceanus and Tethys in Greek Mythology. She faced with immense sadness and regret after Helios rejected her “but she didn’t suicide=refused to die” and instead turned into a heliotrope, which would become a modern day Sunflower. By utilizing Vincent’s strong connection with Sunflowers and their similar personalities (Vincent’s depression and Cyltia’s broken love), the outer god managed to successfully “stitch” them together : The newly made Foreigner has the memory and abilities from Vincent Van Gogh but was also implanted with many significant traits from Cyltia, including her personality, motif as a sunflower (hence her strong emphasis on the flower in both 1st and 2nd ascension and her jumpscare flower-face) and also her divinity.
    • While surely Vincent’s memory won’t allow the servant to submit without question it certainly softened the resistance, allow it to exploit Vincent’s ability to some extent, the more important thing that this fusion managed to achieve is the trait of Cyltia, “refusal to suicide” was successfully implanted. Therefore it guaranteed that the new servant won’t be able to suicide even if the Vincent’s part of her strongly urges her to do so.
    • As a bonus, since Vincent is also a huge Hokusai’s weeb the outer god exploited this connection to “call” Hokusai to the INS, and put her under the influence of Gogh’s NP. After hearing the “call” and receiving the effect of the NP (around the moment she approached Guda in the prologue of this event), her Item Contruction rank got increased dramatically while her “Father-Daughter Bond” was also severely weakened (signifying as Toto-sama being rendered completely catatonic for the entire period of Oei being under the NP’s effect). This started the process of slowly corrupting her into the outer god’s lackey, granted her the ability to modify INS to suit the god’s objectives, and also the ability to perfectly infiltrate Nautilus by morphing into one of the Nemo Marines.
  • The servant Van Gogh (in the story they called her “Cyltia=Van Gogh” so I’ll called her “C=Gogh” from now on) regular showing of symptoms of depression, bipolar, uncontrollable giggles (reminds me of Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker), self-loathe and self-harm tendencies are the result of her personality, identity and existential crisis that stems from the constant clash between the elements of Vincent and Cyltia within her. This is why she and Frankenstein feel strong similarity between them : they’re both pathetic abominations forcefully stitched together by a horrid experiment. While Fran, per her own statement, has already fulfilled her wish by being together with her “Papa”, “Babbage”, Chaldean’s crews and Guda (she initially seeked an individual to be her soulmate (Adam) but later found that being together with these people also satisfied her), C=Gogh obviously still can’t get over her issues and accept herself like Fran did. This is why Fran immediately sympathized with and opened up to her when they first met.
    • In a sense C=Gogh’s existence is quite similar to Nemo, Moriarty and Hessian Lobo that all of them are fused existences who are closer to “Phantoms” than a heroic spirit. However unlike the other Phantoms the clash and friction between her fusion materials are so intense thanks to her creator’s complete lack of concern towards her well-being, resulted in this sad girl who is constantly tormented by severe mental issues.

      Edit: Added infos

      About the credibility of Gilles' statements regarding Outer Gods
      - Per his own admission, the 7 points about Outer Gods I wrote in this post were only results from him tapping into the unknown (thanks to his Prelati's Spellbook) "only for a little bit". And he couldn't accurately describe these points to DaVinci and Sion either, so he chose to simplify them instead. Yes, these points I posted are the already oversimplified versions (and thus are NOT 100% accurate. Don't believe these stuffs to every letter). Basically every bit of info we've gotten about Outer Gods up until now was all from 2nd hand sources so take them with a grain of salt. Let's hope that we will have a chance to confront an Outer God directly in the future so that we can get more concrete info about them :D

      Normally any stuff relating to Outer Gods aren't supposed to be comprehensible to any being originated from the earth so Gilles couldn't just delve into the abyss of eldritch beings carelessly because even him will get consumed by madness from witnessing things that men ain't suppose to look at.
Click to expand...
For those who cant access reddit.
 
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New Info from today (Nov 15th) event story



  • There’s still an epilogue on Nov 18th left so this info is still tentative


The identity of Gogh’s host/creator



  • In game boss name : “The Outer God of Flower” (花の邪神). It’s the big green Ifrit Foreigner class boss.
  • Skills name :
    • “Thousand Years Slumber” (千年の眠り)
      • “Sleep”-Induction skill on self and applying a 2-turns delayed “sleep” onto a target that attacked it.
    • “Thousand Years Insanity” (千年の狂気)
    • “Allure of the Fairy” (妖精の誘惑)
      • Instant “Charm” with a ton of offensive debuffs
    • “Fleeting Form” (仮初めの実像)
  • It’s plan, after it finished it’s descent onto Imaginary Number Space, was to put us into a “thousand years slumber” while making us to experience a “pleasant dream” without any physical harm to us (Pretty similar to Summer BB’s plan…).
  • In 閑話2 (Secret Talk 2), the reason Gilles came to speak up with Sion and DaVinci in the first place is that he had a “premonition” that “Two stars that are besides Mars are shining violently in dark green” —signifying that there’s an upcoming invasion from an outer god.
  • I haven’t read a single piece of Lovecraftian work so I don’t have any confidence on my own speculation but I think that the identity of the god is “Vulthoom”, not the color as many might expect. (https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Vulthoom ; https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aihai)
  • The initial plan of it was of course to abuse Hokusai’s abilities. If Oei wasn’t restored to her sense in time she would eventually turned INS into a “shrine” that will welcome it’s descent.
    • However we rendered the plan moot by detecting that Oei was hiding in and infiltrating our ship, trying her best to trap us here and buy time for her evolution to completely deify her.
    • With this the god was forced into using it’s contingency plan : Activating a fail-safe program that will override Gogh’s personality, isolate her and forcing her to undergo the process of turning into a suitable vessel for it’s descent. If the descent is complete then it’ll ofc have control over Gogh’s NP and can use it without any restriction to brainwash and modify other Foreigners (mainly Hokusai for her abilities to modify INS to become it’s new HQ). The risk is of course, it needs to openly declare it’s presence as the enemy so it’s enemies (Chaldean) will surely try to sabotage it’s descent.


Screenshots of the scenes/dialogues I extracted my info from :







Click to expand...

The next part of that reddit post.

So its not color out of space huh.....
 


WARNING : This is basically SPOILERS OF EVERYTHING IN THIS EVENT so proceed with cautions.



WARNING2: Discussions in the comment section may easily include spoilers FROM THE OTHER TYPE-MOON WORKS (especially the ongoing ones). In my previous thread someone surprisingly didn't know about this and actually caused a little fight to happen, make sure that you don't do the same silly mistake.









About what actually happened in the event



  • Gogh’s deity (let’s assume that it’s actually Vulthoom) dragged us into the dream world that this event happens (hence the reason why masters who only finished Lostbelt 1 (= far before we actually meet Sion and Nemo, let alone the completion of Nautilus) can participate in this story). Gogh then called out to Hokusai and altered her Saint Graph to make her susceptible to becoming a proxy/vessel for her own outer god (Cthulu). The now insane Hokusai then infiltrated Nautilus and used her ability to repaint Imaginary Number Space onto a suitable ground for outer gods to collect/farm their “eldritch power” (can be obtained by feeding on fears and madness, much like how Pennywise does in the IT series, but for Hokusai case only, she can also farm this power by the continued usage of her repainting power). Vulthoom, through Gogh, then sought out cooperation from Cthulu but got refused (it thought that, with Gogh’s NP modifying Hokusai and both of them (kinda) belonging to the same faction of the outer gods, the propose of alliance would succeed and they could’ve farmed/collected “eldritch power” and descended together). With no other option left Vulthoom was forced into trying to collect the “eldritch power” and descend before Cthulu manages to do so, and that’s why it sent Gogh to infiltrate our ship, not only to sabotage and delay Hokusai/Cthulu’s progress, but also since the only source of “eldritch power” left for Vulthoom were fears and madness of Nautilus crew so it can’t afford to let us die until it can fully descend.


  • However another unexpected event happened : the summoning of Yang Guifei, a proxy for another god (prob 99% Cthugha at this point). She took advantage of the vacant seat in the summoning, interrupted it and enabled herself to be summoned, thus becoming another participant in the “eldritch power” farming/grinding race. Similar as Vulthoom’s case, she must rely on Nautilus’s crews to farm so she allied herself with us and became Guda’s temporary servant (in fact, she can ignore the effect of command spells at any time so she doesn’t have to worry about Guda using them to stop her after she reveals herself and betrays them). With no one noticing (including the other two gods’ factions), she continued posing as Nautilus’ ally and had been secretly waiting for her chance to strike…


  • After that we managed to expose and neutralize Hokusai immediately, effectively removing Cthulu from the race. Vulthoom’s victory seems to be certain at this point but, not so surprising, we also managed to expose it too and forced it to immediately begin the descent (despite the fact that the amount of “eldritch power” collected wasn’t yet enough for it to immediately descend to it’s true form). Thanks to it’s power still being pretty far from the optimal condition, we managed to take it down too.


  • We then tried to get out from INS and go back to Chaldea, using Gogh’s ability to assimilate the remnant of powers left floating in INS after all the fightings and condense them into a holy grail, and use it’s power to undo the rewriting/modification of INS back to it’s original state. This is the chance that Yang had been waiting for, she snatched the grail and forced us (as the master) to command her onto using the grail’s wish for her goal. She managed to do this through those creepy cursed dolls she gave to us, Nemo Marines and Bakery. Her wish was to summon as many female foreigners as possible here to initiate her “Grand Foreigner Festival”, a battle royale among foreigners (including herself) to consume each others, gain more powers and grasp the chance of world domination. With the power of the grail she forcefully woke up the negative aspects of every Foreigner’s personality, enhanced them alongside their insanity, effectively turned them hostile and forced them to become the participants. This “Grand Foreigner Festival” was, for Yang, a “rear palace” (the building where concubines of Chinese emperors reside ; the royal harem) for Guda, since she came to saw him as “my beloved emperor” (much like how Kiyo sees us as her Anchin-sama). All of Guda brave actions she saw and their natural charisma made her into believing that they’re her beloved emperor. This delusion was actually the side effect from all of those “eldritch powers” that she had been collecting : It accidentally magnified her Insanity passive.


  • Actually Yang could’ve just used the power from the grail to complete the descent of Cthugha right then and there and grilled everyone into teriyakis but the delusion stated above caused her to add the totally unnecessary step of “Grand Foreigner Festival” and basically **** Cthugha’s plan up to the point of no return just by giving us the chance to counter attack.


  • Thanks to the now insane Yang completely trolling herself and her god, we got the chance to retaliate and potentially save everyone. It was even luckier for us since Gogh wasn’t affected by Yang’s usage of grail : the incomplete Vulthoom we destroyed there was, in fact, the “proxy/receiver” part of Gogh that physically separated itself from her to proceed with it’s plan of descending into Vulthoom (since obviously doing it without any mental resistance from Gogh was the surest and fastest way for it, and it totally believed that it’s power by that point was more than enough to take us on). With the proxy/receiver part inside her gone, she’s now much less prone to descend into uncontrollable insanity and the influence of the outer gods on her is also greatly weakened so she managed to shrug off Yang’s mental modification.


  • Skadi proposed that we used Gogh’s NP to surgically remove the “proxy/receiver” part from every foreigner too since, without the influence/direction from Vulthoom, she should have much more control over it’s effect. We then proceeded to defeat all of the mind-controlled foreigners and turned them back to their usual selves thanks to this.


  • Of course we also tried to expel Cthugha’s influence on Yang and turned her back to good too but, unfortunately, 90% of her saint graph has already been modified and corrupted so it was not possible to remove only the outer god parts without destroying her existence. With all hopes gone and we seemingly forced into a situation where we must kill Yang, Wu Zetian proposed an idea of doing a temporary fusion dance with both Fran and Gogh to use the latter’s NP (if Wu only fuses with Gogh her nature as a foreigner will crush Wu’s sanity so having Fran, a similar existence to Gogh as a patched abomination, as a mediator was necessary). Wu is Yang’s grandmother-in-law so her usage of Gogh’s NP will naturally have much better effect on Yang. Even so, the most Wu managed to do was to impose a geas on Yang, “You’ll only be able to be with your beloved emperor (Guda) only if your human side continues to grow”. This was to make the 10% human side of Yang to gradually increase it’s influence and control over the 90% outer god side so when the time that it has grown enough we’ll be able to extract and remove it safely like how we did to the other foreigners.


  • Afterward we then succeeded in opening an exit from the INS. But during the time of departure, we suddenly fell asleep and this was the time when Gogh reveals that this was actually a dream. While the content of Vulthoom’s plan is still the same as stated above, the method it used to contact us in the first place was our dream (Vulthoom used it’s power to make all events in this dream “real”), somewhat similar how Douman pulled us to Shimousa (makes sense due to Vulthoom’s heavy association with sleeps and dreams). Gogh then tells her goodbye to us, thanking us for freeing and saving her and said that she’ll wait for the day we can meet again here, at INS, “the reverse side of the world” before giving us one final handshake…or so.
Gogh :
“For the last thing, let me give you one final handshake…”
“…wai- what!? My tentacle!? IT'S STUCK! I CAN’T PULL IT OUT!”
“WAI- NOOOOOOOOooooooo………” (and that final scene you saw happens, she got herself accidentally dragged with us back to the real world’s Chaldea LOL)
Click to expand...


  • Just before our return to the real world, BB (on the moon) was alert of the already weakened and suppressed outer god’s side of Yang and dragged her to the moon. She then used the power of the moon’s grail (Moon Cell?) to extract ONLY the human/rational side of Yang to basically, well interrogate her and she spilled out everything stated above (except the “actually this event was a dream” part). BB said that she learnt many valuable lessons from this incident and that her plan will succeed. She then said that “let’s meet again at the time of swimsuits on the next year”, heavily indicating that BB will eventually receive another form. Nyarlathotep BB is apparently not the final nightmare we’ll have to face…


How Yang came to be a foreigner



  • Apparently Yang wasn’t a person who showed any interest or insanity that made her to contact with an outer god in the first place. But Xiang Yu speculated that, from the fact that “her body went missing”, after her death implied that it was stolen and the outer god modified her to change her immense love and loyalty towards her emperor into her worship towards the outer god (before she went further into insanity and started seeing Guda as her beloved emperor, she had been believing that her beloved emperor “is on Fomalhaut”). So in the other word, she’s a successful attempt of modifying/recreating a servant into a proxy/vessel for an outer god, quite unlike Gogh’s case.


  • After she was sent back from the moon by BB, her memory about this event disappeared (but the geas is still intact) so this explains her attitude towards Guda when summoned onto Chaldea.


The foreshadow that indicates the possibility the real Vincent Van Gogh will be implemented eventually



  • Actually, Vincent has another NP “Portrait of Père Tanguy”which is stated to be unusable by “The 「Foreigner」 Clytie Van Gogh” since this is a NP of the “rather pure and innocent” side of Vincent Van Gogh, an ability which is unadulterated by the influence of outer gods. Mashu said this word out, she thought that this was the “another NP” that Clytie Van Gogh used to buff Frankenstein during the fight with Vulthoom. The first time Gogh used her NP to save herself, Mashu, Raikou and Yang and bring all of them back to Nautilus safely, everyone forgot what her NP really was but Yang said to Guda and Mashu that she remembered that it was named “Portrait of Père Tanguy” : This is the reason why Mashu misunderstood this as Gogh’s alternate NP. The moment Gogh denied this being her NP was exactly the moment we realized, albeit too late, that Yang has been, in fact, a traitor all along.
    • The word “rather pure and innocent side” was clearly highlighted in the actual scene. So the possibility of us eventually having the real Van Gogh in the future is pretty high IMO. → This one : https://imgur.com/a/nY2g2PT
    • EDITED 2 : The reason I speculated that there'll definitely be AT LEAST 1 another story about Foreigners is from Gilles' premonition (Screenshots : ) (again, Prof. Gilles has been doing A LOT of works here lately). He said about outer gods who are associated with the planet Mars, Hokusai's patron deity AND IT'S OTHER 2 SIBLINGS.Hokusai's patron is currently having an enmity with it's brother (if the patron is actually Cthulu then is this "brother" Hastur?). But the problem Gilles is worrying about is the other sibling, stated to be the "youngest sister", who's associated with Mars. The details of this deity is, comparing to her elder brothers, mostly unknown and that his premonition speculates that she's trying to be an arbitrator between her brothers, unites them together, form an alliance of triple eldritch deities and plans an invasion. At first I thought that the part "A binary stars that shines violently besides the mars" was a premonition connecting to Vulthoom (due to it's connection to the mars) but Gilles stated that this binary stars system is supposed to represent Hokusai's patron deity and it's brother homeland. He also mentioned Fomalhaut entirely separately from this topic so it's pretty clear that this premonition of the mars isn't about the story in this event.
      • This should make an interesting plot development too : Vulthoom "tried" to form an alliance with Hokusai's patron but failed so it's plan got delayed, not to mention Cthugha's further intervention, and as a result, we're being given more space to counter attack and deal with them one by one. Even with this advantage on our side, plus we acquiring Gogh's NP to use on the second half of the event, we still only managed to survive "barely" through a lucky string of multiple events (for example, 1. Gogh's "Starry Nights", when used properly, is basically a hard counter to outer gods' descent upon foreigners 2. Yang's insanity became too unstable and ruined Cthugha's plan). Now if the next event is not "the gods contesting among each other" but "the gods banding together" instead, we'll need to have more reliable new allies to have any chance to survive, and that would be a perfect opportunity to implement the real Vincent, who should have more access to his abilities and would be obviously much more stable as a servant than Clytie (he would prob still be the depressed/gloomy person he was but at least he won't have any of identity crisis Clytie has).
Click to expand...

The eldritch god of XX is.....
"Actually XX-san has an outer god inside her..." but immediately followed by "...you still don't know ? it's a wicked god named C A P I T A L I S M.”
Click to expand...
 
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Hmmm, I can feel we might be a getting a second Summer BB. Either that, or Summer BB is getting a new costume for the next summer.
 
Just finished seeing Fate Stay Night Heaven's Feel Spring Song and hoo boy was it amazing

But I do see some Visual Novel Fans complaining
 
Here's my review of the entire movie, don't worry, it'll be in spoiler text for those who haven't seen it yet
First of all, I loved the movie, so many scenes were handled amazingly and I'm honestly mega impressed how well some scenes were adapted, I do have some nitpicks regarding things that were cut and paced, but they are minor compared to my enjoyment of the film

Shirou vs Berserker was handled great, I knew going in it was going to be short, but I am ecstatic to see how well they handled the scene with him fighting the wind with Archer, that shit was glorious and hoo boy, when we see the Heracles flashbacks, just perfect

Kirei vs Assassin and Zouken was pretty good, I did feel combining it mid-way with Kirei's speech and backstory was a bit convoluted and made it hard to pay attention to both things at once, but Kirei juking Assassin and then face slamming Zouken was pretty awesome

Forming the Jewel Sword was handled in a pretty awesome flashback scene where we actually see the Greater Grail be created, however I feel that the whole explanation of the Jewel Sword would be very confusing for Anime Only's and it's not given the best explanation

Rin vs Sakura was pretty good I would say, but once again, a lot of confusing bits for Anime Only's, but still great nonetheless

Now Rider and Shirou vs Saber Alter.... OMG, this was easily the best fight and scene in the movie, the choreography, animation, music, voice acting, and everything is just phenomenal, when Shirou jumps in and says "I am the bone of my sword", OMG, I loved it to ******* death, and Rho Aias+Bellerophon was just glorious, and then when Saber's on the ground and Shirou pulls up to deal the final blow, that was simply amazing

Shirou saving Sakura was better in this Movie than the Visual Novel I feel, they really put weight and action into Shirou saving her and the scene is directed beautifully, it's much better than just having Shirou slowly walk up and stab her

Now the big one, my favorite fight in the Visual Novel... Shirou vs Kirei, this one I was both the most hyped for and most concerned for, I knew that there was no way in hell they could do the fight proper, it's all about the dialogue in the Visual Novel and they are on mega limited time, so here it is, the visuals and combat were really solid, but I would be lying if I said it was perfect, they talk in the middle of the fight and that's fine, but no "I like Kirei Kotomine" and no last 7 blows from Shirou while he is dying, which is a big hit to the fight, I feel I need to watch it again to gather my thoughts, but I will say it was fine for what it was, but my expectations were not entirely met

Illya was done really good in this movie, she finally got the attention she really deserved in this movie, and her send off was really sad, I know that was short, but I don't have much more to say, I also don't have much to say about the ending other than I liked that Taiga, Issei, Mitsuzuri were in the final picnic scene

IMO, a 8.5/10 Movie, really solid everything, but the movie did cut some things I loved and didn't do an amazing job on how much pain Shirou using Archer's Arm was, I'm sure dumbasses will claim Shirou is OP as **** again, because of how this movie makes Shirou appear, besides some minor nitpicks, I still loved the movie and can't wait to watch it again
 
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I actually want to discuss something about the most recent event.

Would it be a spoiler or can I assume everyone's seen it at this point?

Also, does anyone think the Crypters are getting a bit too much story focus? I mean, it's supposed to be the story of how Risuka saves humanity, and now it seems she's been relegated to the role of a camera, while the Crypters get fawned over by us fans and players. The only time I explicitly saw him/her have any importance was when Surtr realized that killing Ritsuka would immediately and directly doom humanity once and for all.

And as someone who's on JP: Wodime does NOT deserve Ophelia.

TLDR: I think the writers are having too much fun with the Crypters.
 
I don't see the issue with giving the spotlight to the Crypters from time to time. Basically all of them clearly have a deeper story than just "we're jelous of Ritsuka for stealing our mission so we're gonna destroy human history" and thus these kind of moments serve to explore their characters outside of their interactions with Chaldea. Besides, even in Arc 1, Ritsuka always played second fiddle to others, back then it was to Mash, since his role as the silent protagonist means not much can be done with him beyond some basic situations.
 
'Cause it's not 'from time to time'. It's all throughout the entirety of Part 2.

In Russia, Ritsuka--who I'll remind you has seen Tiamat in all her destructive majesty and the struggles of the heroes in all the Singularities--gets BSOD'd by the simple question from Ivan, of whether he/she's ready to kill the Lostbelt and everyone in it.
--Even disregarding the FACT that a Lostbelt means this future is a lost cause, he/she should very well know what's at stake--the 70 billion lives of the Pan-Human History. Why he or she is struck dumb, I do not understand. A moment of reflection, sure. But needing Patri to take a bullet for them and then shake them out of it? They were on the front lines fighting against Lahmus and Demon Pillars and goddamn Goetia. Even reflexively they should've been able to react to a gunshot.

Also, when Kadoc told Ritsuka to look carefully with a simple sight enhancement spell, they said they couldn't do it. Like, are the writers seriously trying to play the 'normal person' card after Part 1? Because I don't think any normal person could've gone through that and the subsequent betrayal, and still summon the energy and drive needed to save the world all over again.

--An example of diminishing Ritsuka's importance as a protagonist. In part 1, it didn't matter what was happening, there was always a clear undertone that Ritsuka was the single point of hope, the anchor of pan-human history among the chaos.

(I would go on, but this is getting long)

I only thought about it because 2.5.1 showed exactly what could be done to emphasize Ritsuka--change the POV to someone else's so we see what it feels like from another person's perspective.

Kind of the same thing Katana Zero does, letting you see your run in normal time after you get through it in bullet time. It gives you a sense of what the protagonist is accomplishing and achieving.

(SIgh)

I guess at the end of the day, all I want is for Ritsuka to get their due credit. I've come to love both of them in my adventures with them, and it just pains me.

---

Velox, I'll remind you that 'Brodime' tried very, very hard to kill you and came dangerously close to succeeding in dooming 70 billion lives. He had his redemption, but that does not excuse his misdeeds.

And I don't care what the writers make of Beryl. I'm going to roast him slowly over the fires of Hell before I look at anything else the writers had in store for him.

I like Wodime, I even found some Wodime x Ritsuka pieces great, but again, he tried to destroy the world. He tried--and mostly succeeded--in destroying Chaldea. And they killed Da Vinci.

We've hated others--real and in anime--for attempting less.
 
Yeah, they're dead now, but if FGO 2.0 is going to save the world (which they are), then there'd have to be some way to bring everyone back. A reset or something.

It's simple story logic. IF Nasu has the balls to end the story with everyone dead AND the Lostbelts destroyed, then, well, I will admit I was wrong.
 
He alredy tell that we will not really get a good end (like everyone is alive and happy) for what i remember
 
Nope. You'll need to come up with something more convincing, like an actual argument or solid evidence that FGO 2 definitely won't end well.
 
Uh, no...you're the one trying to convince me here.

And Nasu's whims and thoughts are non-accessible as far as I'm concerned.
 
I mean right now we don't have much to do aside the AP and NP revisions and (possibly) profiles creation so yeah, more meme more good lel

Also sorry Zen for not answering, because debating about Chars morality is beyond me lel
 
Just a question, one day will we begin to try to make key for true heroic spirit(the one that exist in throne if heroes and tell to be the more powerfull existence in nasuverse, tell to transcend true magi, being so powerful that can't be invoked even by the world etc), true daemon, akasha, the red shadow,etc (all being that at least it tell/show/scall to be supperior to thing we know and should be since, all thing we fight was do by avatar or living (even the extra one or grand servant are still avatar) (+ describe as higher dimmensionnal being) ?

Because all if thel should at least have scall + don't remember them having anti feat (even kiara that have merged with BB etc is just tell to be something that approach to become a true demon for what i remember)
 
Still can’t believe that Hiroyama might’ve ended 3rei with a bad end. Welp guess I’ll just have to see if the next chapter is the beginning of 4ier or an epilogue to 3rei.
 
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