Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Mfw Tsukihime's 20th anni gets nothing

 

[Regidian]

Mfw Tsukihime's 20th anni gets nothing

Like always...

 

[Ionliosite]

About time we got Douman. And Watanabe no Tsuna is welcomed as well. Now to wait for Abe no Seimei.

 

[Regidian]

We have an ushi that fight kintoki in the CM and she seem more older so maybie 2nd banner with her (and i want the demon in the end to be in the banner too)

 

[Ionliosite]

 

[John985]

ahaha, so I was right, Ushiwaka have duplication. Those Duplication she did in Babylon is not because of Merlin.

 

[John985]

Default

Eyes like polished obsidians, and a face constantly wearing a smile cruel to the point of perfection.

A body so fierce that it could tear his enemies apart barehanded, if needed.

An Youkai Beast in human shape, who manages to leave an impression of beauty on those who behold them.



A Buddhist onmyouji from the Heian era.

Also known as Douma Houshi or Sangha Douman.

The inhuman human who took Heian's strongest spellcaster, Abe no Seimei, as his opponent.

Bond 1

Height/Weight: 200cm / 110kg

Source: Uji Shuui Monogatari, Abe no Seimei Monogatari, Ashiya Douman Oouchikagami, Aztec mythology, Slav mythology, etc

Region: Japan

Alignment: Chaotic Evil

Gender: Unknown

The pentagram is known as Abe no Seimei's signature, but in Shima it's called the "Douman signature". Oh right, it's also called the DoumanSeiman! Oh, details!

Bond 2

They're classified not as a hero who protects the people, but as an anti-hero, who unscrupulously harms people, and whose extinction lead society to peace and tranquility.

They're said to have harmed the authority of the time, Fujiwara no Michinaga, with their hex.

Unlike Abe no Seimei, who belonged to the Bureau of Onmyou, a government organization, Ashiya Douman was a Buddhist priest, and, in a sense, an enemy of the government.

Their relationship seemed to have been mutually cooperative at first... but at some point, Douman started seeing Seimei and the Bureau of Onmyou as enemies, and opposed them time and time again.

In the Heian Japan, where Mystery remained pronounced, the clashes between the two greatest masters of spells must have been amazing.



Also, if were to take the legends at face value, Douman died several times.

This game says that they learned everything about the secret arts of Hakudou Jounin1, having already mastered pseudo-immortality during their lifetime.

Bond 3 and Heian Completion

The Ashiya Douman the Alter Ego is not exactly Ashiya Douman the onmyouji who once existed.

In their formation as an Alter Ego, they implanted 2 Divine Spirits and 1 grudgeful spirit in their own Saint Graph.



The Divine Spirits and grudgeful spirit are listed as follows:

1) The goddess Itzpapalotl from Aztec mythology

2) The evil god Chernobog from Slav mythology

3) The grudgeful spirit Demonic Minister of the Left2>! from Heian Japan. !<

Bond 4 and Heian Completion

Fate/Grand Order's Ashiya Douman is openly antagonistic against the capital and people protected by Abe no Seimei.

They portray themself as a transcendental being, who is deeply experienced in handling the five elements, sometimes even able to manipulate nature (the gods), and ridicules all the small, transient masses who live modest lives.

They love trampling the prides and faiths of people for their own amusement.

(That's why Girl Musashi despises them like a snake or a scorpion)



Due to being manifested in the Alter Ego class, they are considered to be a caricaturized aspect of the existing Ashiya Douman, not a complete representation of the real figure.

But, Caster Murasaki Shikibu's accounts imply that Douman from the past was that much inhuman and untrustworthy.

Bond 5 and Heian Completion

! Kyourandodou - Akuryou Safu (Turmoil - Demonic Minister of the Left) !<

! Rank: B!<

Type: Anti-City Noble Phantasm

Range: 1 - 80

Max. targets: 400 people

A reproduction of the astounding Greater Witchcraft set up in an attempt to curse the authority of the time, Fujiwara no Michinaga, to death, which was akin to killing the city itself. If successful, the city would have instantly fell into ruin,and the people would be assaulted by misfortune, until the last of them starved to death. Naturally, his political power would be turned to nothing.



When the hex is used as a Noble Phantasm, the Demonic Minister of the Left (the grudgeful spirit of Minister of the Left Fujiwara no Akimitsu) fused with Douman's Alter Ego version is temporarily summoned.

This dramatically increases the spell's chances of success.



The dark sun covering the sky at the end is an embodiment of Douman's pride and maliciousness, and also a virtual composite manifestation of the components implemented in their Alter Ego form, the god of darkness Itzpapalotl, and the black god Chernobog.

Also Bond 5 and Heian Completion

The Alter Ego Ashiya Douman summoned to Chaldea behaves as if they doesn't remember a thing about their actions as the alien god's servant, or their multiple confrontations against Chaldea.

When asked why they were summoned as an Alter Ego with multiple powers that the living Ashiya Douman couldn't possible have, their answer is "I do not have the faintest idea".



This is untrue.

Obviously.



They are, without a doubt, summoned to Chaldea with the records of the Alter Ego Limbo who fought against Chaldea, the Douman who attempted to shine as a dark sun.

Why did it come to this? Due to an unexpected consequence of them tying their fate to Chaldea? The choice of the Pan-Human History, who takes power without questioning where it comes from? Or perhaps due to Alter Ego Ashiya Douman wishing for it to happen? (Note: there's nothing confirming that the Heroic Spirit's wills have any influence on them being summoned or manifested)

Bond Craft Essence

Proof

A skull split in two.



This could be...

the remains of their lifetime.



They won't tell anything.

Ask as much as you want, they won't tell anything.

Wait as much as you want, he won't tell anything.



They only smile, nod ambiguously, and stare at me...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation notes:

1. Hakudou Jounin was a Japanese Xian described as Abe no Seimei's master. In another version, Hakudou Jounin taught Kibi no Makibi, who then taught his assistant (Abe no Nakamaru)'s descendant Seimei. One story tells that when Seimei was defeated and killed by Douman, Hakudou Jounin used the Act of Life Continuation to revive Seimei, and then Seimei avenged his own death by killing Douman and Rika (Seimei's wife, who betrayed him in this story). Afterwards, Hakudou Jounin warned Seimei he needed to follow vows of never drinking too much, never gambling, and never getting emotionally attached to women.
2. In the Heian era, there was this court noble named Fujiwara no Akimitsu. Akimitsu was known for being an incompetent with a huge grudge against Fujiwara no Michinaga. His daugther Enshi was the wife of the next Emperor of Japan, Prince Atsuakira, until the Prince abandoned her and their son to marry Michinaga's daughter. Legend says that the despair caused Enshi to fall ill and die, and Akimitsu, pissed about that, commissioned Ashiya Douman to hex Michinaga. A curse caused all of Michinaga's daughters to die in quick succession, and the people who feared Akimitsu for what they assumed to be his divine power started calling him "Demonic Minister of the Left".

 

[Regidian]

Ibuki is compared to zeus

きっと、大神ゼウスのアレに近い……!

 

[John985]

Done.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ibuki is compared to zeus

At this rate, everything will be comparable to Zeus.

 

[Regidian]

She is the "lostbelt king" so that pass at least

 

[Regidian]

And douman have try to become a beast but failed (bcz don't have any form of love for humanity), and he have merged with the tree of his "lostbelt"

 

[ÆONS]

Ibuki is compared to zeus

Nothing surprising about that fact, she's a Touhou character.

 

[Newendigo]

"Compared to Zeus"

Yeah same thing happened to Ivan and Surtr, and both statements up being bullshit-y due to the ignorance of the statements and and Zeus hilariously being far more powerful than people thought.

As everything, more context is needed.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

in my opinion the entire scaling chain is bullshit. The scaling of Origin/Mythological Mystic Code servants being stronger than BB. Kiara being superior to BB. Kiara scaling to goetia whom at best has a high 3-A feat with interdimensional range on a tier 2-B / 2-A range. All of it bullshit.

 

[Ionliosite]

I'm also calling bs until the full context is known, but the big difference between her and Ivan is that Chaldea actually knows Zeus' power by this point, so this statement is far more insane than the previous ones.

 

[Newendigo]

Considering how this verse is, the bullshit context behind the scene will be far more extravagant than it should, cus Nasu thinks "complicted = cool.

 

[Ionliosite]

the bullshit context behind the scene will be far more extravagant than it should

Van Gogh flashbacks

 

[John985]

Default​

Watanabe no Tsuna was a samurai who was active during the mid-Heian period.
As one of Minamoto no Raikou's retainers, he, along with Sakata Kintoki, Usui Sadamitsu and Urabe no Suetake, were known as the Four Heavenly Kings of Yorimitsu.
Even amongst the group, Tsuna was the one Raikou held in the highest regard, and the other three members admired him as they would a brother.

Bond 1​

Height/Weight: 180 cm/77 kg
Source: Historical fact
Region: Japan
Alignment: Neutral Good
Gender: Male
The strongest class of oni slayer in Japan.
He is at a rank where oni will flee on their own without even having to scatter roasted beans to ward them off.

Bond 2​

A prim, straight-laced person.
Though somewhat reserved, he can be sociable, and has become renowned as a cool and collected oni slayer.
His private life is so utterly boring that no one outside his circle can believe it, and on top of that his job performance is impeccable.
It's said that the people around him place absolute trust in him not because of his words, but because of his demeanor and attitude.
He kills oni due to his sense of obligation, rather than hatred.
― Except for a certain oni, that is.

Bond 3 (Available after LB5.5 completion)​

Eternal Arms of Mastery (Anti-Demonic): A-
So long as his opponent is demonic, his swordsmanship will not waver in the slightest.
He is an expert against oni and demons...but due to certain circumstances, this skill has been slightly downgraded.

Disciple of Suiten: B
There is a rumor that Tsuna, the ancestor of the Watanabe political clan, was a shaman who was involved in laying the souls of water spirits to rest and preventing floods.
It protects the user from water hazards while pacifying the water at the same time.

Arm Dismemberment of Ichijou Modoribashi: EX
The imperial capital of Kyoto sublimated as a skill based off the tale that took place at Ichijou Modoribashi.
This is one of his ultimate achievements demonstrating his abilities as a swordsman, facing against an oni with physical abilities exceeding that of humans and severing its arm without so much as a reaction.
The origin point of the attack becomes imperceptible, making evasion all but impossible.

Note that the story of how Ibaraki Douji's arm was cut off differs between that of Proper History and the Imperial Holy Grail War (Singularity).

In Proper History as Ibaraki observed, Tsuna devised a plan and sliced off her arm.

Bond 4 (Available after LB5.5 completion)​

Mount Ooe - Bodhi Oni Slayer
Rank: A
Type: Anti-Oni Noble Phantasm
Range: 1
Maximum number of targets: 1 person

Ooeyama Bodaikisatsu.
An attack that specializes in slaying demonic enemies, oni in particular.
Although Watanabe no Tsuna was by no means a mage, he was able to slaughter that one oni with a single blow by performing self-suggestion through a nine-character incantation.
Unlike Raikou and Kintoki, he kills oni purely with his human capabilities.

The Oni Slayer Yasutsuna
Rank: C
Type: Anti-Personnel Noble Phantasm
Range: 1
Maximum number of targets: 1 person

Onikiri Yasutsuna. Originally a famous sword from the Genji clan entrusted to Tsuna by Raikou, it was formerly known as Higekiri. It was also used in the battle against Suzuka Gozen.
Shortly after lopping off Ibaraki Douji's arm, he renamed it from Higekiri to Onikiri.
The sword deals special damage against demonic enemies and oni.
The mere sight of the sword pulled out its sheath forces all oni under a crushing pressure of Rank B. Unless the oni has a Mental Corruption, Madness Enhancement, or Mental Resistance skills of Rank B or higher, they cannot escape the crushing pressure.
In FGO, it is essentially used just as a normal weapon.

Bond 5 (Available after LB5.5 completion)​

For Tsuna, oni were neither beings to be detested nor to be protected, but rather beings to slay.
He holds no sympathy or pity for the act, nor hatred or delight.
It is merely his job, so to speak; he reports for work every morning to patrol Kyoto, and if he happens to come across an oni he slays it, then goes home. Rinse and repeat.
If he were born in modern times, he would be the equivalent of a businessman who does his job perfectly (and always leaves work on time).
He is a monstrous human who never ceases to neglect training no matter what and continues to advance his skills.

Although he understands human nature, he doesn't think to associate himself with it.
Although he understands people's emotions, he isn't sure if these emotions exist within himself.
Troublesome it may be, it doesn't mean that he is emotionless. There are times where he has risked his life to save his friends and innocent bystanders, but Tsuna does not help them as an indication of expressing intense emotions. In other words, he is more like a robot that was programmed to aid people.
"I do this because it's something that must be done," the person in question puts it simply.
Perhaps it's because he doesn't place himself amongst humans that he finds it more difficult to kill people than oni. He has admitted it to Kintoki and the others in the past, but of course they became lost for words.

A stray who lacked something from a young age. He realizes that being one of Raikou's Four Heavenly Kings, a samurai, and an oni slayer has just barely made him look like a human being.

The only exception to that however, is the resplendent and cruel oni with golden hair.
Now, she is the only one who can stir up the emotions deep within Tsuna.

Bond CE​

Tale of the Beginning and the End

― And just like that, it was all over.
Grisly claw marks, destroyed houses, shattered household belongings. And a single woman nearby, close to the brink of death. I may or may not make it in time. It seems like I was wrong from the start.

I never expected us to come in contact with one another. The last thing I wanted to do was to even look at you. However, as long as you were alive. As long as you were happy. I thought that would be enough. But look, this is the reality.

she's dead / it's your fault she was killed / it's your fault that oni escaped / you must kill her don't avert your gaze / look away i'll carve out those golden locks of hers / you're not done yet decapitate her / kill yourself who should I blame? / no one is to blame

― And just like that, the man ceases his delusional thoughts. Oni are meant to be killed. I will slay her...that's all, nothing else to it. No, think. I have to keep thinking. Even if I die, until I die, even if I become corrupted.

I remember that look in her eyes, like bubbles that floated away and vanished.

Quietly, without a hint of any intense emotion, I stared back at the girl who had fixed her gaze on me. Everyone is a sinner. Oni are sinners, people are sinners, the girl is a sinner, I am a sinner. They are not just sins, but responsibilities as well.

I tightly grasp the hilt of my sword. I have no intention of giving it up to anyone. Having it even be stolen would be absurd. "Slaying that oni, is my duty."

― Tsuna, Tsuna, TSUNAA!

......the oni's claws approach. Something, whatever it is, swells within my trembling heart. I rotate my body, turn my arms, and swing my sword.

The truth of this fight, along with its conclusion, will soon disappear to the passage of time.

No one else can understand, will be able to understand this fight to the death between the two of us.

Also I edited about Douman above.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion of mine: Arjuna Alter in his god form (The one that absorbed all those other gods) is overhyped, and overwanked.

 

[ÆONS]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion of mine: Arjuna Alter in his god form (The one that absorbed all those other gods) is overhyped, and overwanked.

Eh. I get where the overwankedness comes from, Altjuna is broken af. I agree that he got a bit overhyped by the fandom, but I don't think it is to the point of it being malignant to the experience so lots of people can get by without a lot of problems.

 

[LehenDuo]

I mean, Godjuna IS strong as ****, downright ridiculous compared to the rest of the characters we've seem
Really, who would be ever lost to? The Twelve and Chaos, and that would only be ''certain'' for Zeus and Chaos, really, given even the other Twelve in their Aletheia may be a bit weaker than full Godjuna

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Like the fandom (from what I have seen) puts him at the apex of the entire verse they have him be among one of the top 3 strongest in the verse and I have to disagree with that.

 

[Ionliosite]

I mean, in terms of pure feats, Godjuna is indeed some of the best, if not the best, we've seen so far. TYPES are stronger, of course, but they are featless, and then you get people who are vaguely strong like Chaos, so at least Godjuna has a solid basis for his powers due to having actual Tier 2 feats on his own.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I mean, in terms of pure feats, Godjuna is indeed some of the best, if not the best, we've seen so far. TYPES are stronger, of course, but they are featless, and then you get people who are vaguely strong like Chaos, so at least Godjuna has a solid basis for his powers due to having actual Tier 2 feats on his own.

The best we seen for the lostbelts yes, but not the strongest in the series. But I'll keep the rest of my thoughts to myself lol

His best tier 2 feat is like universal too. A lot of these characters best feats are universal.

 

[Ionliosite]

The best we seen for the lostbelts yes, but not the strongest in the series.

Like, how many more characters have Tier 2 feats? And I mean feats, not statements. And I never said he was the strongest, I said he has the best feats, I literally pointed out stronger characters on my comment.

 

[John985]

I really hate the fact that they didnt include all of his Authority in the mats.......

 

[John985]

Shounagon

Sei Shounagon, I beg you to stop. Please, stop attempting to remove my robes. I am no beast disguised as human, I am merely a beast of beauty. I beg you to stop!

The others are not that interesting.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Like, how many more characters have Tier 2 feats? And I mean feats, not statements. And I never said he was the strongest, I said he has the best feats, I literally pointed out stronger characters on my comment.

Im sorry for being confusing with my words. I mean to say in the groups I am outside of the wiki have him as the strongest, or among the strongest. In my first sentence I was agreeing he was the most impressive we have seen from the lost belts, and the later half was probably something I could have gone without saying. But... I usually don't think about what I say when I type it.. I'm sorry..

I didn't mean to cause any anger or conflict.

Edit: I'm not good with words....

 

[ÆONS]

Fair enough. I still hold my opinion that Godjuna's reputation is well-deserved considering his feats.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly the statements of Ibuki being compared to Zeus is kind of justified, back in the past chapters we don't know the full context of how powerful Zeus is so Ivan and Surtr being compared to Zeus was a speculation, and then when we finally arrived in Olympus we know how strong he is so the comparison to Ivan and Surtr was invalid, again this is what i think

 

[Regidian]

Kintoki have summon his mecha too, apprently as a new NP

 

[LehenDuo]

The best we seen for the lostbelts yes, but not the strongest in the series. But I'll keep the rest of my thoughts to myself lol

His best tier 2 feat is like universal too. A lot of these characters best feats are universal.

His best feat, or his NP not restricted by being a Servant, is like... Tier 5 Reality Warping/Creation?
I mean, I have no idea where people get these ''universal'' feats of theirs...

 

[Regidian]

He reset the universe of his lostbelt each time ircc i think, like how shiva is able to burn the universe and kama being the universe

 

[LehenDuo]

He reset the universe of his lostbelt each time ircc i think, like how shiva is able to burn the universe and kama being the universe

Yeah... An anti-world reseting the universe? Ignoring the part that Anti-World has a specific meaning, Anti-Texture,c Shiva burning the universe and Kama being the universe can easily be explained similarly to Surtr eating the Sun of the Lost Belt ''texture''.
And Lost Belt aren't even complete parallel worlds as the original one, they are partial reconstructions... (and truth be told we still don't have the full story...)
The entire argument is based on a word used?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Yeah... An anti-world reseting the universe? Ignoring the part that Anti-World has a specific meaning, Anti-Texture,c Shiva burning the universe and Kama being the universe can easily be explained similarly to Surtr eating the Sun of the Lost Belt ''texture''.
And Lost Belt aren't even complete parallel worlds as the original one, they are partial reconstructions... (and truth be told we still don't have the full story...)
The entire argument is based on a word used?

I hate how vague textures are or how they lack a very detailed and elaborate explanation that is more than anything we know now

 

[Regidian]

Yeah... An anti-world reseting the universe? Ignoring the part that Anti-World has a specific meaning, Anti-Texture,c Shiva burning the universe and Kama being the universe can easily be explained similarly to Surtr eating the Sun of the Lost Belt ''texture''.
And Lost Belt aren't even complete parallel worlds as the original one, they are partial reconstructions... (and truth be told we still don't have the full story...)
The entire argument is based on a word used?

Anti world= ability to affect the World, and their just classification not thing that tell what is the limitation of their power. And they mean to affect reality/space-time in first never tell anywhere they just affect texture (and even that all anti world doesn't follow it)

Shiva don't appear in the lostbelt so tell that he affect only the texture is not really good.

For Surtr he do this thing in the texture?

For kama, except if we go with she don't know what an universe....

For lostbelt they should still have their universe (not like we see artemis going in space etc) and even an outer Space (except now you tell that chaos trying to come from the outer space in a lostbelt is a outlier).

They become lostbelt after the divergence not before and lostbelt are still complete (having the storm barrier don't change the fact that the Great Muraille is still as big a the earth or have not let chaos come)

 

[Regidian]

I hate how vague textures are or how they lack a very detailed and elaborate explanation that is more than anything we know now

Except tell how big a texture can be i don't see what they need to explain more (the best will be if it was based from how their populace perceives it since many of them are mythologie based)

 

[LehenDuo]

Anti world= ability to affect the World, and their just classification not thing that tell what is the limitation of their power. And they mean to affect reality/space-time never tell anywhere they just affect texture (servant universe doesn't have them don't have change a thing)

Shiva don't appear in the lostbelt so tell that he affect only the texture is not really good.

For Surtr he do this thing in the texture?

For kama, except if we go with she don't know what an universe....

For lostbelt they should still have their universe (not like we see artemis going in space etc) and even an outer Space (except now you tell that chaos trying to come from the outer space in a lostbelt is a outlier).

They become lostbelt after the divergence not before and lostbelt are still complete (having the storm barrier don't change the fact that the Great Muraille is still as big a the earth or have not let chaos come)

I don't know if I got some things you wrote correctly but:
1) Define Nasuverse ''the World''. Affecting ''reality/space-time''?? What?
2) I said ''can'', not that they are explictly/they are known to be the same. The fact is that we have precedence and do not know.
3) Really didn't understand what you meant by your phrase about Kama
4) Why those are obligatory the Lost Belt texture? We have multiple textures superposed even on Earth. And, further, why would the space be included in ANY texture? Textures are defined as something stretched on Earth's superfice...
5) The last Lost Belts but that in check. They may be projections from the Tree, entirely made up, manifested phantasms. You do understand Earth, the planet, is the planet in itself, not any texture or Lost Belt or anything similar right?

 

[Regidian]

1. the World have litteraly many definition in nasuverse (1.the Earth, 2.the World that have parralele world, so the universe and i have alredy showed this before and 3. Reality)

2.ok

3. Telling that when kama talk about her being the universe after she was burned by shiva is about the "lostbelt universe" is like tell she doesn't know what is really a universe (even if in first we don't even know if that scene pass after or before the pruned thing)

4. Don't understant what you tell, we don't have any hint that they would have other texture donlt know what you tell that (some lostbelt are litteraly talk about being one texture) Why they wouldn't (i don't tell they have but should) ? Venus from layer of man=/=venus from reverse side of the world (np of ishtar show this since she take the concept of the venus from the reverse side of the world) and and Chaos is litteraly the one from the lostbelt so the lostbelt have obligatory a outer space for him to be here. Being streched on earth surface doesn't mean they can't be bigger than earth (just that they will have a big inner Space)

5.still doesn't understand what you want tell, i tell you that lostbelt are not really limited since we see thing that are beyond the storm wall.

For the earth what the problem? I have just tell that the Great Muraille of LB3 is litteraly all aroundth earth and so bigger in term of diameter

And sorry if you don't understand all the thing i tell, i'm not good with traduction beetween my language and english