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I just saw this bit. Kizaru has 7 layers. Nacht hasn't shown anything near that unfortunately.
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Nacht Faust vs Kizaru (11-4-0
- Thread starter Idkwhyimhere3
- Start date
- 60
- 11
- Thread starter
- #122
I'm still waiting for the statement of Ace being an elemental counter to Kuzan, I've looked and asked around. I do not think it exists.
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If the natural counter to snow is "heat," then logically the natural counter to ice (which is of a higher order to snow) would be heat/fire/magma. This is even shown when after Ace's attack countered Kuzan's a lot a steam was released similarly to what happened to Monet when she fought against Nami.
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- Thread starter
- #124
This is not a statement of Ace being his elemental counter... It also doesn't make sense given how Kuzan can match Ace's superior. I'm not sure how this is even an argument.
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It is. Nami states that heat is the natural counter to snow. Kuzan has the same type of devil fruit as Monet, with his just being of a higher order. Sakazuki's devil fruit is of a higher order Ace's, which has heat manipulation.
What? There was no one "matching" the other in that panel. All it shows is Ace's fire evaporating Kuzan's Pheasant Beak with a wall of intense heat.
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- Thread starter
- #126
Kuzan isn't snow, he uses the "Cold Cold" fruit and physically speaking Cold is no more susceptible to Heat as Heat is to Cold. One is energy and the other drains energy, this is likely why Akainu (Ace's superior) was matched by Kuzan without overpowering him.
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How is layered Npi a thing and where is it coming from?
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Hax Layer Evaluation Thread
The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards, much like Glass did for type 5 acausality not too long ago. Given the massive amount of ground that needs to be covered, this will be a somewhat disorganized thread...
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You seriously expect me to look through 1k+ messages to find it?Hax Layer Evaluation Thread
The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards, much like Glass did for type 5 acausality not too long ago. Given the massive amount of ground that needs to be covered, this will be a somewhat disorganized thread...vsbattles.com
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It says right there on the OP. One Piece has 5-7 layers of Haki.
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I'm not contesting it's validity, I want to see its proposal and confirm npi was included in it
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It's all in the first and second page.
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Layered NPI is a thing, but it obviously does not exist in OP.
Nobody is going on a wild goose chase hunting down NPI layers that don’t exist.
What the hell happened while I was gone?
Nobody is going on a wild goose chase hunting down NPI layers that don’t exist.
What the hell happened while I was gone?
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it's not NPI (Since the thread of giving haki NPI just died) ... It's elemental intangabilty negation, that is layered
Nacht does not have elemental intangabilty negation and even if he does have NPI, kizaru can scatter himself into small photons to not get touched... It doesn't matter if he has npi or not
Nacht does not have elemental intangabilty negation and even if he does have NPI, kizaru can scatter himself into small photons to not get touched... It doesn't matter if he has npi or not
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Nacht also has several speed amps stemming from several magic boosts and a transformation (Felis Mode; evading spammed attacks faster than him). One of those speed boosts being from Mana Zone which allows Nacht to cast a spell from anywhere and can cast arms from everywhere simultaneously within the Zone. All this makes it impossible for Kuzan to evade by accelerating… Even if you wank his speed to be too fast for Nacht, Nacht will pick it up while he’s accelerating and go into hiding until he decelerates. Nacht also has heat resistance lol.
He has haki to counter devil fruit* not just shadow fruit and definitely not magic… Nacht has NPI, I agree with @Idkwhyimhere3 reasons and also the fact he can eliminate light with his shadows as I’ve said before shadow and darkness hard counter light. Kizaru also can’t interact with Nacht’s shadow which don’t physically exist. His only hope is to overpower them which is clearly not happening.
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You can’t layer elemental intangibility without layering NPI and it has to be the same type of element unless a general statement of interaction between all the elements. Can I have a link to the post to start reading from?
Nacht eliminates light with Mana Zone. So it’s probably not a good idea to turn into light.
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his fastest is FTL...
Kizaru accelerates from LS to FTL+ the speed Amp isn't even comparable to anything nacht has
Haki has resistance negation lol.
You do know eliminating light does nothing to kizaru himself right? That is why intangibility negation is a thing needed to attack logias true body
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Second point in the message you tagged still stands.
If this is about haki negating the natural resistance of logias then it doesn’t apply here.
Is this intangibility negation just Haki negating devil fruit powers again?
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... elemental intangibility and NPI isn't the same thing... One is their body and the other is what they can do.. How the f are you comparing that?
Negating their intangabilty and interacting with their intangabilty is different... The interaction does nothing to do logia user besides being able to touch them physically which is why you need negation to their intangabilty
Epsilon_R
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In speed equal matches, only the combat speed of each opponent is equalized, the rest is scaled proportionately.
His travel speed getting 10+ times faster doesn't matter because said travel speed was already 10+ times slower than his combat speed anyway.
Kizaru's combat speed is already FTL+, all his acceleration does is make his travel speed comparable to his combat speed, which is already the case for Nacht
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Heat resistance from sanji or luffy which is from high speed rotation flames...
Devil fruit powers are the same as powers without devil fruits. Hence why sanji's heat is listed on the haki page
Resistance to
- Heat Manipulation (Sanji states that Buso assists him in withstanding heat[60]
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I should’ve verified first from page, thanks @Epsilon_R
???
You need NPI to interact with elemental intangibility.
But it looks like the layers aren’t even from NPI it’s against negation.
This is just haki resisting heat… it has nothing to do with heat resistance negation nor devil fruit powers being “powers” without devil fruit.
???
You need NPI to interact with elemental intangibility.
But it looks like the layers aren’t even from NPI it’s against negation.
Um…
This is just haki resisting heat… it has nothing to do with heat resistance negation nor devil fruit powers being “powers” without devil fruit.
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his acceleration is at least FTL+ with Acceleration
He's far faster than that FTL+ rating so much that luffy himself in gear 4th couldn't dodge it while being an obs Haki user
Luffy's base speed is FTL+, his gear 2nd is a blitz above and his gear 4th is also a blitz above < Kizaru's FTL+ acceleration
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you need npi to touch intang
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My earlier message stands… Nacht has his own speed boosts. If that’s not enough he hides as soon as Kizaru gets too fast for him.
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what...?
Haki resists heat yes... But sanji's resistance of heat gets negated by haki or stronger haki since he has haki (With kizaru being > Sanji's Haki)
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So basically here, the claim is Haki can negate resistances stemming from non-Devil fruit powers?
Can I see where his heat resistance was negated by Haki. Not talking about buso helping him. I’m talking about his natural resistance to heat.
Cuz I’m sure you’d show me haki negging haki.
Can I see where his heat resistance was negated by Haki. Not talking about buso helping him. I’m talking about his natural resistance to heat.
Cuz I’m sure you’d show me haki negging haki.
Epsilon_R
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In verse blitzes don't matter, in the end, he's just unquantifiably faster than before.
And the same could be done for nacht, but again, that's in verse blitz, it doesn't matter
imagine if we were to do this with One Shots as well
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Luffy did.. He got hurt by ifrit jambe only because the usage of haki
And Doffy getting affected by luffy's red hawk when they he have comparable haki and tanked diable jambe's heat which doffy has superior Haki than
This is how it works via an example of luffy's resistances to blunt attacks
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it does matter... Wtf, that's literally ignoring the speed amp
We do if the Amp is that high that it one shots comparable characters
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- Thread starter
- #151
Seems we're still at 5-2-0 in favor of Nacht
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- #152
I don't understand this. Why is it 5-7 layers of Haki and not just "This character has stronger Haki"?
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because it keeps bypassing resistances
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- #154
But should that be a layer? It's just a struggle between Haki/DF or Haki/Haki and which is stronger, what are the layers?
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Simply having greater haki grants a layers (or more depending on the case), which allows users to bypass resistances.
One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling
First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...
Rayleigh bypassing Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force via Haki
Law bypassing Tashigi's Haki's resistance to Spatial Manipulation via his own superior Haki
Vergo's Haki being stated to be strong enough to resist Law's Spatial Manipulation, but then that resistance being bypassed by Law's Haki
Epsilon_R
He/Him- 6,350
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No we don't? What's unquantifiable stays like that, even if it's an in verse blitz.
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- Thread starter
- #157
I still don't get it. This seems like it should all just be one layer, there's only 1 variable here.Simply having greater haki grants a layers (or more depending on the case), which allows users to bypass resistances.
Garp bypassing Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force via HakiOne Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling
First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...
Rayleigh bypassing Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force via Haki
Law bypassing Tashigi's Haki's resistance to Spatial Manipulation via his own superior Haki
Vergo's Haki being stated to be strong enough to resist Law's Spatial Manipulation, but then that resistance being bypassed by Law's Haki
The superior Haki user > the other person's Haki/DF, I don't see how these are all different layers and not just a showing of strong Haki.
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no he got hurt by Bonny, blunt force from devil fruit gets negated by Bonny’s haki lmfao.
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- Thread starter
- #159
8th layer?
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Because the combination of haki with their abilities makes it layered as haki of others can’t resist it even tho it would if the other didn’t have haki
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