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Also the vote count should be updated, it's 4-2 for Nacht not 4-1
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Nacht Faust vs Kizaru (11-4-0
- Thread starter Idkwhyimhere3
- Start date
- 19,523
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That is not my point. I don't care if Nacht can still use his clone's shadows. I was responding to the comments that said that he'd grab and pull Kizaru into his own shadow.
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I see. Well I think that's something he can do and is a legit wincon, but obviously Kizaru is able to adapt.
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I'm unsure if it is. Kizaru's Yasakani no Magatama spawns a giant light source and each beam is able to generate enough light to blind the opponent, and given how many light beams there are, it'd light up the area, ridding of any shadows
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,243
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Why does this matter? He's gonna have to fight and attack, its not like he teleports into the shadows whenever he feels like. And Ob haki will catch this happening, Kizaru can just light the entire area so no shadows are near. This just sounds like a pointless endeavor for Nacht to try, he'll realize how pointless trying to hop from shadow to shadow is and attempt a different tactic with his devils and other abilities.
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You can think that but between things like Walgner's paralysis and especially Monument of Atonement if needed (Nacht can absolutely combine these two as well), on top with what's already been discussed (like the clones having the exact same ki making it very difficult to find the real Nacht), my vote remains unchanged
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Again. For clarification.
Shadow and Darkness are attributes that hard counters light in Black Clover.
Light isn’t getting shun through the shadows Nacht creates. He can manipulate shadows in well lit areas, only exploiting already accessible shadows for stealth reasons.
Yuno’s star did not affect Kid’s play ground’s effectiveness at all. Despite nuking the battlefield with fire, Naamah STILL could not locate Nacht until Nacht made physical contact with him. As soon as Nacht uses Shadow Magic: Dark Prison Hunting Ground, Kizaru will not be able to shine through. There will be arms and created shadows in all directions.
Now Nacht not only has sound based, but can also prevent his opponent from moving as soon as Nacht starts controlling their shadow. As shown when Asta was paralyzed on his first encounter with Nacht.
Shadow and Darkness are attributes that hard counters light in Black Clover.
Light isn’t getting shun through the shadows Nacht creates. He can manipulate shadows in well lit areas, only exploiting already accessible shadows for stealth reasons.
Yuno’s star did not affect Kid’s play ground’s effectiveness at all. Despite nuking the battlefield with fire, Naamah STILL could not locate Nacht until Nacht made physical contact with him. As soon as Nacht uses Shadow Magic: Dark Prison Hunting Ground, Kizaru will not be able to shine through. There will be arms and created shadows in all directions.
Now Nacht not only has sound based, but can also prevent his opponent from moving as soon as Nacht starts controlling their shadow. As shown when Asta was paralyzed on his first encounter with Nacht.
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You forgetting lil old me?
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So it should be 5-2 then?
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That’s his only wincon… what you mean if needed…
While Kizaru has many, is much faster while accelerating + obs haki and can one shot with heat
Even if he somehow restrain/paralyze Kizaru for a moment (idk how that will even affect him since his intangible and has haki that counters the shadow fruit) he can literally spam lasers from his eyes
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I know you're not changing your mind, that's not my goal. I'm just explaining my stance
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And I’m just explaining that it’s his only wincon unless you or someone else didn’t know
The comments after is just defending my vote with Kizaru
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I mean you can explain why you think it's his only wincon. Doesn't automatically make that objectively the case
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It is currently objectively the case since that’s the only argument people have used to vote for him
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Pulling him into a shadow is an example of another, especially when done after paralysis
So no, "objectively" is the wrong word. I'm not entertaining this any longer
So no, "objectively" is the wrong word. I'm not entertaining this any longer
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His heat, spam attacks, intangibility + being able to evade and counter nachts very few wincons
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- Thread starter
- #99
Nacht's shadows can interact with elemental intangible beings, idk why people keep ignoring that.
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Kizaru's elemental intangibility is layered.
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- Thread starter
- #101
I'm sure you can "layer" NPI for Black Clover.
Anyways the vote has been updated.
Anyways the vote has been updated.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,243
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What did it interact with? And where is this on profile?
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- Thread starter
- #103
The Devil Twins who have elemental intang just like Logia, they turn into their magic. It's explicitly stated that his Devils cant touch them but it's shown to us that this Shadows can.
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Not as layered as Kizaru's. Also, layered NPI isn't currently accepted for Black Clover IIRC so this is a null point.
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- Thread starter
- #105
Logia in OP can be countered by elemental matchups, this was already touched on but Shadow Magic counters light in verse for Black Clover. The Idea that Kizaru is some how "layered" to the point that Nacht's shadows wont interact with him is just weird.
Also if it's not on Nacht's profile that he can interact with intangible beings it needs to be.
Also if it's not on Nacht's profile that he can interact with intangible beings it needs to be.
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Elemental matchups in OP can be countered by Haki, which is why Kuzan was able to fight Sakazuki for 10 days straight despite the the latter's fruit being the natural counter to his own.
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- Thread starter
- #107
When was it stated that his fruit was a counter to Kuzan's?
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Sakazuki's fruit is an order higher than Ace's which is Kuzan's counter.
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- Thread starter
- #109
Is there a statement that Ace counters Kuzan?
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,243
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Okay and when did he do that? Its nowhere on the page and I don't remember that happening in manga.
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- Thread starter
- #111
After his Devil fails to punch one of the Twins, he states in his inner monologue that his Devils can't even touch the twins, despite this Nacht is still able to grab them with Shadows several times.
Seems pretty explicit that his Shadows can interact with elemental intangible beings, i'm working on a CRT for it now.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,243
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What I'm asking is when do the shadows touch Naamah while they are fire. I know Nacht can't touch them, he turned into fire when he tries, but I don't see when the shadows held him down while he was fire. And besides this, this is a pretty pointless tactic as well, Kizaru can simply turn himself to light to leave the shadow hands.
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- Thread starter
- #113
When he uses his final spell and again when he stops Lilith from fleeing Asta, he held them down both times, Nacht also has AoE stuns and his shadows can paralyze you so escaping him might not be as easy as that.
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- Thread starter
- #115
The narrative of that scene is that Nacht's Devil's can't touch the twins, so he has to use this spell. Which implies that they're still intangible, otherwise the inner dialogue doesn't make sense narratively.
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- Thread starter
- #116
Also looking back Naamah was in his normal form, he looks no different than how he normally looks when Nacht punched him.
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,243
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That seems off visually speaking since Naamah turns into fire when attacked by Nacht, he isn't generally in a fire state. But okay, given that is how it works, Kizaru can still turn into light to get out of the hands grasp.
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- Thread starter
- #118
I went back and looked, there's no different form. Naamah looks exactly the same in both scenes with the difference being Nacht's fist going through him or not.
I never said Kizaru can't evade the hands or escape them, I think the battle is pretty close. I'm just helping people out with information on Nacht cuz the OP side seems to lack that information. As stated before Nacht has AoE stuns and paralyzing shadows so escaping is possible but it's also hard.
Arkenis
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When Nacht punches him the part becomes fire. That is what I'm referring to.
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- Thread starter
- #120
Yeah but that doesn't prove he has two different forms, it just shows us that when attacking him with normal attacks he's intangible.
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