One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

[KingTempest]

First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency.

Scaling Methods of Buso​

A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to) the other for being capable of stopping their power.
A Haki user overpowering another Haki user who's relative to their base means their Haki provides them a superior amp.
Statements of superior Armament mean that the other is superior.
Making the opponent's Haki throb means they're superior.
If a DF user's power works on 1 person but not the other, then the latter's Haki is superior.
If they can have an armament Haki clash then they're comparable.
Those whos' Haki is praised should have relative Haki to whoever is praising them.

Zoan abilities do not amplify Haki Potency. Nothing implies so, nothing hints to it. They have the same Haki. It amps physicals, not spirituals.
Sulong Amplifies Haki Potency. Sulong is their "true form", amplifying everything they're capable of doing.

Spoiler: Haki Potencies

Ace Novel​

Spoiler

Draw's Haki was stated to be especially powerful, which means it should scale above weak Haki.
Ace's Haki was equal to Draw's Haki.
Ace's Haki grew and was superior to Draw's Haki.
Ace's Haki was relative to Jinbe's Haki
Marco scoffs at Ace worrying at others' Haki, implying he has superior Haki.

Pre-Timeskip up to Marineford​

Spoiler

Akainu's Haki is superior to Marco's, Vista's, and Jinbe's, as they couldn't hurt him (Jinbe's).
Whitebeard's Haki is superior to Marco's, Vista's, and Jinbe's, as he could hurt Akainu.

FMI Luffy​

Spoiler

Luffy's Haki wasn't good against sharp objects.

Punk Hazard​

Spoiler

Punk Hazard Law's Haki is superior to Tashigi. Her Haki isn't strong enough to overpower his.
Smoker's Haki is relative to Punk Hazard Law's Haki, as Law's Haki couldn't overpower Smoker's.
Vergo's Haki is superior to Smoker's Haki and PH Law's Haki.

• Caesar says it's superior to Smoker's and Law's.
• Vergo says it's superior to Smoker's.
• Doflamingo says it's superior to Law's, while only having knowledge of PH Law's Haki probably due to Vergo, who could've sensed his Haki Potency and let Doffy know.

End of PH - Dressrosa Law's Haki is superior to Vergo's Haki, overpowering his Haki with his DF.
Zoro's Haki is superior to Tashigi's, implying superiority when he could hurt Monet to a further extent and stating that he would've killed her if he used Haki.

Dressrosa​

Spoiler

Considering these things I thought I could bring up some things that would suggest Pica's Buso superiority:

• Pica is confident in his Buso superiority to the point of viewing it as invincible. And that not only would swords not harm him at all (sharp objects), but believes Zoro's haki imbued swords would also fail. This tells us he is confident his Buso usage is superior to other Buso users and that his Buso will not be harmed by blades.
• Pica's Vivre card tells us he's mastered Busoshoku Haki, telling us his Buso superiority is very great.

Dressrosa Chinjao's Haki is relative to Luffy's Haki.
Doflamingo's Haki is relative to Law's Haki.

Dressrosa Luffy's Haki is relative to Doflamingo's.

• Frequent Haki clashes.
• Luffy could block Doffy's Haki infused attack.

Gear 4th Luffy's Haki is superior to base Luffy's Haki.

• He uses too much Haki.
• He needs a cooldown.

Gear 4th Luffy's Haki is superior to Doflamingo's Haki
Sabo's Haki is superior to Burgess.
Zoro's Haki is superior to Pica's Haki.
Luffy's Haki is now strong against sharp objects.

• Shown here.
• And here.

Whole Cake Island​

Spoiler

Cracker's Haki is superior to Early WCI Luffy's Haki.
Katakuri's Haki is superior to all of WCI Base Luffy's Haki.

• Overpowered Luffy's Haki.
• Made his hand throb.
• His Haki throbbed trying to guard again.

Early WCI Gear 4th Luffy's Haki is superior to Katakuri's Haki.
Big Mom's Haki is superior to Early WCI G4th Luffy's Haki.
Sanji can slightly block off a bladed attack from Judge with his Haki, something Luffy couldn't do with Hody.

Wano​

Spoiler

Enma raises the potency by drawing out more Haki.
Oden would scale above Zoro's potency, as he's able to use Enma to the best of its ability.
Law's and Hawkins' Haki are relative. Hawkins could block his technique.
Luffy and Ulti's Haki are relative.
Kiku and Kanjuro's Haki are relative.
Kaidou's and Big Mom's Haki is superior to Law's Haki AND Early Wano Luffy's Haki.
Yamato and Kaidou's Haki are relative.
Angry Wano Jinbe's Haki is superior to Who's-Who's Haki
King's Haki is superior to 1032 Zoro's Haki.
1035 Zoro's Haki is relative to King's Haki.
Roger and other important pirates' Haki is stronger than Luffy's.

• Kaidou says that DF abilities aren't enough, and that strong Haki is everything, implying that his isn't strong.

Existing Scaling Chains​

Average Haki < Draw's Haki ~ Sabaody Ace's Haki < Stronger Ace's Haki < Ace Novel Jinbe's Haki < Current Jinbe's Haki < Akainu's Haki < WB's Haki (6 Layers example)
Tashigi's Haki < Smoker and PH Law's Haki < Vergo's Haki < DR Law, Doffy, and DR Luffy's Haki < Wano Law, Wano Hawkins < Raid Luffy's Haki < Kaidou's & Big Mom's Haki (6 Layers Example)
DR Luffy's Haki < Early WCI Luffy's Haki < Late WCI Luffy's Haki < Katakuri's Haki (7 Layers Example)
Average Haki < Pica's Haki < DR Zoro's Haki < Wano Zoro's Haki < 1032 Zoro's Haki < King's & 1035 Zoro's Haki (5 Layers)
1032 Zoro's Haki < Oden's Haki (5 Layers)

Layered Hax​

Stronger Haki means that you can resist hax that harm inferior Haki.
WB can make contact with Akainu who can't be touched by Marco, Vista, and Jinbe.
Katakuri can physically harm Luffy with Haki punches, who can't be harmed by Doflamingo's Haki kicks.
Smoker and Doffy can resist Law's spatial slashes which can affect Tashigi.

This applies over to growing Haki as well. It can grow to the point of resisting abilities that affected it prior.

As all Haki, even the most basic Haki has a resistance or a negation, scaling over it immediately provides you with a layer.

Extra Resistance​

Busoshoku Haki should have Limited Resistance to Bladed and Blunt Weaponry, as many users have shown to fend off blades with their bare limbs.

Blades in One Piece are shown to hurt damn near everybody. Even the weakest blade can scratch the strongest man, yet Haki users shatter blades that even touch them.

They can be able of harming, but it's rare for a haki user to fall under that.

Of course, someone vastly superior would chop their limbs off, which is why it's limited. It's meant for people around your level, you won't get cuts and such in that scenario.

Conclusion​

Superior Haki is layered.
Superior Haki is a thing.
Haki is scaleable.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Looks good and I agree, nice work King part 13.

 

[Kachon123]

Akainu's Haki is superior to Marco's, Vista's, and Jinbe's, as they couldn't hurt him

Wrong link. This might be the scan you meant to send.

This may be bordering headcanon, but I always saw this as Akainu manipulating his body to dodge the haki infused attacks similar to how Katakuri does.

 

[Eminiteable]

Wrong link. This might be the scan you meant to send.

This may be bordering headcanon, but I always saw this as Akainu manipulating his body to dodge the haki infused attacks similar to how Katakuri does.

Aokiji did do that apparently, but for Akainu the sfx denotes that his body was struck and thus his haki allowed him to resist theirs.

 

[Nierre]

they couldn't hurt him

This link doesn't showcase any of the 3 characters mentioned?

Punk Hazard Law's Haki is superior to Tashigi. Her Haki isn't strong enough to overpower his.

Also off-topic, but this is interesting to me. I always thought that Law's fruit weakness with Haki came out of nowhere in Wano, I completely forgot that it was implied this far back.

Dressrosa Chinjao's Haki is relative to Luffy's Haki.

How does this prove that their haki is relative again? Couldn't one or the other's base strength just be really strong and their haki not be as strong? For example if Luffy's base strength is 2 and his haki is 8, and Chinjao's base strength is 9, and his haki is 1, chances are they would have clashed anyway, right?

• Overpowered Luffy's Haki.
• Made his hand throb.
• His Haki throbbed trying to guard again.

Like this for example outright mentions haki while the Chinjao example doesn't even mention haki at all.

Big Mom's Haki is superior to Early WCI G4th Luffy's Haki.

Is this missing a scan? Cause this doesn't prove anything to me? They're clashing here right?

Luffy and Ulti's Haki are relative.
Kiku and Kanjuro's Haki are relative.

Same issue I have with the Chinjao example, unless the Haki lightning somehow means that they're equal, and I'm just missing something?

Yamato and Kaidou's Haki are relative.

1035 Zoro's Haki is relative to King's Haki.

Yeah I think my biggest issue with is CRT is really me not understanding how clashes prove that they are relative? Sorry if this is something obvious but I don't know where this is coming from

 

[Kachon123]

Aokiji did do that apparently, but for Akainu the sfx denotes that his body was struck and thus his haki allowed him to resist theirs.

There was no sfx for when Marco and Vista attacked Akainu.

 

[Kachon123]

This link doesn't showcase any of the 3 characters mentioned?

Wrong link. This might be the scan you meant to send.

 

[Eminiteable]

There was no sfx for when Marco and Vista attacked Akainu.

"Wham"

 

[Kachon123]

"Wham"

I don't really like arguing sfx, so this may be my last response to this point...

But doesn't "Wham" imply that they hit the air? If they hit magma it would likely sound different.

 

[KingTempest]

@Nierre I won't reply directly since 90% of your stuff is tackling the same question

Relative clashes of Haki would have the throbbing issue. So even though their power is similar, one of them would've throbbed in pain from the attack of the other

Also I thought I deleted that Big Mom and Luffy one. 1 sec

This may be bordering headcanon, but I always saw this as Akainu manipulating his body to dodge the haki infused attacks similar to how Katakuri does.

There was no sfx for when Marco and Vista attacked Akainu.

I quote a reddit user from this thread.

Spoiler: Resistance to Intangibility Negation and to Resistance Negation

Marco & Vista for example failed to cut Akainu by forcing his body to solidity, therefore, their Armament Haki is not strong enough to hack through Akainu's DF because it has a greater level of resistance to Armament Haki and conversely, their Haki isn't strong enough to fully treat his body like solid.

^ Exhibit: Chapter 574.

Pay attention to the "WHAM" SFX, it indicates impact or blows that landed against a surface as "these examples" show. This is to repudiate the idea that Akainu created a gap for the attacks to miss him. Attacks that do not land on anything but air don't show up as "WHAM", but "WHOOM" or "WHOOSH" that indicate cutting through air at high speeds.

Whitebeard on the other hand had no issues hurt Akainu, why? because Whitebeard's Haki is at the very highest level, the Magu Magu no Mi's level of resistance is exceeded by Whitebeard's Armament's strength, consequently, he's able to treat his body as a solid/tangible object.

And if this was the case, Akainu would've done it again to someone else (like WB)

 

[WrongIdea21]

I've plan to make similiar thread, but you did better. I agree.

 

[Eminiteable]

I don't really like arguing sfx, so this may be my last response to this point...

But doesn't "Wham" imply that they hit the air? If they hit magma it would likely sound different.

Supposedly that SFX is for when something is hit, and apparently Aokiji (In his case it was whoom) & Katakuri didn't have a SFX like that when they moved their logia bodies to avoid a hit.

 

[Kachon123]

And if this was the case, Akainu would've done it again to someone else (like WB)

I agree now, but Akainu not doing it to WB doesn't mean that he can't do it at all.

 

[Eminiteable]

Agreed, he was caught unaware against WB so he didn't really have the opportunity.

 

[Nierre]

Relative clashes of Haki would have the throbbing issue. So even though their power is similar, one of them would've throbbed in pain from the attack of the other

Oh actually that makes sense, not sure why I didn't think about that lol

 

[KingTempest]

Agreed, he was caught unaware against WB so he didn't really have the opportunity.

Didn't he throw him in the air? He had a bunch of time

 

[Eminiteable]

Didn't he throw him in the air? He had a bunch of time

Anime only

 

[Kachon123]

Is this thread only to accept the notion that Haki Layers is a thing, or can it also be used to see where specific characters scale?

 

[KingTempest]

Is this thread only to accept the notion that Haki Layers is a thing, or can it also be used to see where specific characters scale?

It's saying that
A. Haki layers are a thing
B. There are definite scaling methods and chains that exist already in the verse
C. It works for whatever ability that is capable of being layered that Haki resists

 

[Eminiteable]

Statements of superior Armament mean that the other is superior.

Luffy's Haki wasn't good against sharp objects.

Sanji can slightly block off a bladed attack from Judge with his Haki, something Luffy couldn't do with Hody.

Considering these things I thought I could bring up some things that would suggest Pica's Buso superiority:

• Pica is confident in his Buso superiority to the point of viewing it as invincible. And that not only would swords not harm him at all (sharp objects), but believes Zoro's haki imbued swords would also fail. This tells us he is confident his Buso usage is superior to other Buso users and that his Buso will not be harmed by blades.
• Pica's Vivre card tells us he's mastered Busoshoku Haki, telling us his Buso superiority is very great.

 

[KingTempest]

Considering these things I thought I could bring up some things that would suggest Pica's Buso superiority:

• Pica is confident in his Buso superiority to the point of viewing it as invincible. And that not only would swords not harm him at all (sharp objects), but believes Zoro's haki imbued swords would also fail. This tells us he is confident his Buso usage is superior to other Buso users and that his Buso will not be harmed by blades.
• Pica's Vivre card tells us he's mastered Busoshoku Haki, telling us his Buso superiority is very great.

This would be another layer for Pica and Zoro then. Thanks for noticing it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This is very well organized and seems valid based on everything I've seen

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Extra Resistance​

Busoshoku Haki should have Limited Resistance to Bladed and Blunt Weaponry, as many users have shown to fend off blades with their bare limbs.

Blades in One Piece are shown to hurt damn near everybody. Even the weakest blade can scratch the strongest man, yet Haki users shatter blades that even touch them.

They can be able of harming, but it's rare for a haki user to fall under that.

Of course, someone vastly superior would chop their limbs off, which is why it's limited. It's meant for people around your level, you won't get cuts and such in that scenario.

This just sound like they butted their durability...

 

[KingTempest]

This just sound like they butted their durability...

Nah it does 90% of the time

But this is how it looks against dudes of relative scaling vs dudes slightly superior with sharp weapons.

Basically they don't get many insignificant cuts on their body

Directly he pretty much says "I can block punches, but I can't block sharp objects yet"

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Nah it does 90% of the time

But this is how it looks against dudes of relative scaling vs dudes slightly superior with sharp weapons.

Basically they don't get many insignificant cuts on their body

Directly he pretty much says "I can block punches, but I can't block sharp objects yet"

Hmmm. Well I'm still not sure but if the knowledgeable members are fine with it then I really don't mind. The rest of the OP looks fine.

 

[Lynieryz]

Those whos' Haki is praised should have relative Haki to whoever is praising them.

 

[KingTempest]

For example

"Your Haki is something I could never imagine" - Bellamy
"Look at Roger who conquered the sea with good Haki" - Kaidou

Luffy would be superior to Bellamy
Roger would be in the ballpark of Kaidou

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Finally... Been always talking like this has already been accepted

Punk Hazard Law's Haki is superior to Tashigi. Her Haki isn't strong enough to overpower his.
Smoker's Haki is relative to Punk Hazard Law's Haki, as Law's Haki couldn't overpower Smoker's.
Vergo's Haki is superior to Smoker's Haki and PH Law's Haki.

• Caesar says it's superior to Smoker's and Law's.
• Vergo says it's superior to Smoker's.
• Doflamingo says it's superior to Law's, while only having knowledge of PH Law's Haki probably due to Vergo, who could've sensed his Haki Potency and let Doffy know.

this the only problem I have personally... It would be Law > Vergo > Smoker but I'm just not gonna debate that

I guess agree with everything

Also this

Sulong Amplifies Haki Potency. Sulong is their "true form", amplifying everything they're capable of doing.

Needs a translation from us or something because... They can lie and stuff idk

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Wrong link. This might be the scan you meant to send.

This may be bordering headcanon, but I always saw this as Akainu manipulating his body to dodge the haki infused attacks similar to how Katakuri does.

You can see akainu shaking from the attack signifying that he got hit and didn't avoid/dodge it

 

[KingTempest]

Finally... Been always talking like this has already been accepted


this the only problem I have personally... It would be Law > Vergo > Smoker but I'm just not gonna debate that

Law after Vergo > Vergo > Law before Vergo ~ Smoker

I guess agree with everything

Also this

Needs a translation from us or something because... They can lie and stuff idk

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Law after Vergo > Vergo > Law before Vergo ~ Smoker

Law before vergo was when law didn't have his heart... When he got it back with the help of smoker, easily dealt with the strongest vergo which is why I personally think without his heart he can't use most of his haki or his Haki at all and when he got it, easily overpowered vergo but again I don't wanna debate it because I can't really prove it

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[SnookB]

Pretty much included all the examples I had in mind while at it. Agree to it all.

 

[Nanashi]

Everything makes sense since all the arguments are pretty solid, I agree with all of them.

 

[Eseseso]

This is all good and I agree

 

[Eminiteable]

Average Haki < Draw's Haki ~ Sabaody Ace's Haki < Stronger Ace's Haki < Ace Novel Jinbe's Haki < Current Jinbe's Haki < Akainu's Haki < WB's Haki (6 Layers example)

Kizaru would scale above WB's Haki as he got cut through by WB while he was unaware and was unharmed, making Kizaru's Buso 7 layers.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Kizaru would scale above WB's Haki as he got cut through by WB while he was unaware and was unharmed, making Kizaru's Buso 7 layers.

Does Kizaru use Buso at that moment?

 

[KingTempest]

Does Kizaru use Buso at that moment?

Question is if Whitebeard used Buso at that moment. We know his Haki was tripping for a little bit during the war

 

[WrongIdea21]

Question is if Whitebeard used Buso at that moment. We know his Haki was tripping for a little bit during the war

He can't stop Kizaru if He didn't use Haki ig , it's same things like Rayleigh stop Kizaru at Sabaody.
As Emin said He unaware but unharmed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Kizaru would scale above WB's Haki as he got cut through by WB while he was unaware and was unharmed, making Kizaru's Buso 7 layers.

Disagree... You are saying Marco who could touch kizaru, couldn't touch akainu who could be touched by whitebeard... Has stronger haki than whitebeard...

That makes no sense... Basically Kizaru < Marco < Whitebeard < Akainu... When there's shown blunt evidence that Marco couldn't touch akainu yet whitebeard could

The feat you are talking about is either whitebeard didn't use haki or has been using too much haki and is extremely injured, making it weaker..