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Make JoJo Spam Again - Weather Report vs Gilgamesh

It wouldn't be through intelligence that he avoids it it would more be that he would refuse to believe anything that says he becomes a snail
 
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you refuse to believe, it's a subliminal message. You can't not believe a subliminal message, it's just a message.
 
Like Paul said, Gil will refuse to believe he will ever become a snail. Its much like him seeing alternate timelines with SNI, where he loses. Depending on his mood, he will take every action to get to that future where he loses simply because he doesn't believe he can lose, despite it being contradicted by an ability he has absolut faith in.

For transmutation, he resists with both his magic resist and his armor. The armor was able to let him completely ignore the transmutation of Humbaba which is >= Medusa's Cybele which still has a chance of petrifying things which resist it.
 
Refusing to believe you won't become a snail doesn't negate Heavy Weather. It's triggered by a subliminal message. You need to be immune to subliminal messages, which is just as hard as being immune to a regular message.

It's transmuting him, not his armor. His armor can resist it, fine, but his brain is actively forcing him to undergo the transformation against his will.
 
His armor prevents things from transmuting him seeing as it easily stops stuff where he either looks in their eyes (Cybele) or just being in their presence (Humbaba and Cybele)
 
That's fair on the armor part, but the transmutation is self-induced. Gil himself ultimately turns himself into a snail upon seeing the message. Can he transmute himself with his will or whatever shenanigans?

I don't know how luck could help him. Maybe it could make him blind?
 
So the best case scenario rn for Gil is

>Heavy Weather activates

>Gil survives via luck

>Gil still dies to the 100s of different methods WR has to kill him
 
Servant Luck is essentially refusing to have what should be guaranteed to happen (or any chance/percentage based) from happening, reducing how effective it is.

Person/Tech: Event X is guaranteed to happen no matter what.

Luck stat: ... yeah, no.
 
Then I think ultimately, Gil's luck can make himself blind. If he's blind then he can't see the subliminal message and therefore he's immune to the transmutation regardless.

Heavy Weather still has poison oxygen and large-scale 6-C attacks, how does a blind Gilg fair?
 
Isn't everything percent based? That's like saying a servant with high luck wouldn't die if they drank an ordinary poison that can kill a servant without resisting it.
 
Gil could also just use the curtain of the night possibly to block the light from heavy weather

The large scale 6-c attacks come from environmental destruction AFAIK so those kinda don't help and as for the oxygen thing gil could just like hop on viama or something to get away from heavy weathers range then nuke him from orbit with lightning spacial cutting weapons or at this point maybe even ea
 
@Dragon

I was referring to things like Gae Bolg, rather than everything in general, where its mechanic is that it is guaranteed to work a certain % of the time (100% in that case), so fate bends over backwards to prevent it.
 
Luck may save Gil from like one or two of his abilities to insta kill or incapacitate. For example, oxygen poisoning fails to kill due to luck, so next he goes for the water inflation method, etc. I Gil has good luck but his isn't that great
 
@Prof

Gil wouldn't go blind from Luck but in the absurd event that it did happen, SNI lets him see every past, future and present so he just whips out Merodach, Ea, Ig Alima, Sul-sagana etc. and just drops it on/swings it at WR ftw.
 
I know. It was preceded by him going blind from his own Luck in which case he would unrestrict it or just blindly use Ea which is a guaranteed hit, kill and ... brilliant defence when you think about it.
 
Gil wont wip out SNI in character. That is like the biggest difference between bloodlusted and in character Gil. I don't recall a single time he has used it to it's full potential in the main series, except maybe grand order
 
Yeah. One of the major dangers of the oxygen poisoning is both that it effects faster people more, and that by the time you realise you are being poisoned it is probably already too late
 
I've made a sandbox with updated feats of what Weather can do, since everyone seems to be in the dark about the character.

You can view it here.

Also, I looked up the definition of subliminal messaging, and I can confirm that it has nothing to do with mind manip. It's a suggestion, a message. Just like how you talk to another person; except that this message is not able to be captured by the conscious mind.
 
6 for WR (Xtas, Hl3, Axl3333, Iapitus, Zack, Stand)

0 for Gil
 
This is dumb

People are seriously arguing oxygen poisoning against a servant. Those servants who are completely unaffected walking around London when the demonic fog is out, which instantly poisons and kills normal people. Those servants which don't even need to breathe because their bodies are literally just human shaped conglomerations of magical energy around a spiritual core, the destruction of which is the only way to kill a servant. Oxygen is not required.

Subliminal messaging is totally mind manipulation, what on earth are you people talking about? Subliminal messages is literally just putting an idea in the person's head, which in HW's case is the idea of snails. Gil resists having his brain physically recreated and reconstructed in his skull along with his soul being imprinted with curses to have him turned evil. See the similarity? Subliminal messages aren't doing anything to him. Also, you don't just have to see the rainbows, you also need to touch them while seeing them. Same with the snails. Gil wears armour everywhere except his head. Those snails and rainbows are going to have a hard time touching him.

People are arguing that a calc based on wide scale environmental Destruction is applicable here? Gil shoots a sword, and the sword breaks straight through the shields because the shields best feats are working against 8-Cs. Or he fires a sword that cuts straight through the shields by hax or something. He's got plenty of those. Also, High 7-C shields blocking 7-B or higher attacks? What on earth are you people talking about? You can't push that away with High 7-C force, the whole way AP works is that 7-B force is present within those swords.

Also Gilgamesh resists petrification, which is just specialised transmutation, so I doubt he'd turn even if the snails did touch him. And that's not because of his magic resistance, that's resistance via magic.

What else have I missed, I need to rebuke the arguments fully so all the votes are invalid.
 
Is a normal message mind manipulation, Monarch?

Because it's the same as a subliminal message, which is litterally just stimuli below the threshold of perception. Knowing what is a subliminal message doesn't make you immune to them, you can't logically be immune to a message.

You may have a point about the oxygen thing, I don't know.
 
No

It's a message that puts an idea in someone's mind and manipulates what they are thinking. In this case the message that "you are a snail".

Gil resists all the evils of the world being poured into his mind, and having his brain physically reconstructed within his skull. Whether it's liminal or subliminal, if the message "you're a snail" gets inside Gilgamesh's head, he's going to laugh it off and go on his merry way.
 
That's not what a subliminal message is. It's not putting an idea in someone and manipulating it. My definition was straight off wikipedia if you care.

He himself draws the conclusion that "I am a snail", he wouldn't be able to laugh it off because subliminal means above/below perception but even if he did it doesn't help him. He's aware of the message, so? Those aware of the Stand ability aren't immune to the ability. He then turns himself into a snail because he absorbed the message.
 
Yes, it completely is

The whole point of subliminal messaging is that you are manipulating people into doing something by sticking an idea in their mind. It's main uses have been to make people buy things. People don't draw the conclusion themselves. The conclusion is stuck in their heads by the message.

And you're ignoring what I said. Gilgamesh had his brain physically constructed, from the ground up, for him to be evil. He had all the evil and sin, and despair, and malice and horror of the entire world forced into his mind, and he said lol no.

Why do you think that the message "I am a snail" is going to have any more effect than something like that?
 
To be more specific, it's a suggestion. It's not conventional mind manipulation in that sense. I wrote it in my sandbox in the link above.

To summrise, he's not forcing you to think about turning into a snail. He's just telling you about snails over and over again. You still have free will to not turn into a snail, but since the transmutation is caused by simply recieving the message, it can only be truly stopped by never recieveing the message in the first place. That's why blind people aren't affected, they don't have the capacity to recieve the message at all, thus they are safe from the effects of the messages.

What I'm trying to say now is that subliminal messaging isn't manipulation at all. It's contact. Heavy just has to make contact with your mind to turn you into a snail. Like a conversation. As long as you hear the word 'snail', you're screwed.
 
He can resist evil and sin and malice and horror, great. There's nothing to suggest those were subliminal messages like Heavy Weather. Resisting ideology =/= resisting a message.

Bottom line is without some major BS, you can't resist a message. He tells you the message and you turn yourself into a snail regardless if you intended to or not.
 
The transmutation is not caused by recieving the message.

The transmutation is caused by having the message enter your mind and convincing you that you are turning into a snail .

Gilgamesh is not going to be convinced of anything. Again. All the Evils of the World, forced into his mind, convince him to be evil, he says lol no.

Also, blind people can also avoid being transformed into snails by the contact transmutation, implying its the same subliminal message that is somehow transmited by the snails but still needs the eyes (for some reason, because jojo logic). See Pucci hiding under all those snails. So because Gil is safe from the mind manip, he's also safe from their weird asexual reproduction thing.
 
ProfessorLord said:
He can resist evil and sin and malice and horror, great. There's nothing to suggest those were subliminal messages like Heavy Weather. Resisting ideology =/= resisting a message.
Bottom line is without some major BS, you can't resist a message. He tells you the message and you turn yourself into a snail regardless if you intended to or not.
Click to expand...
You can't resist a message because there's nothing there to resist

But you can entirely resist what it is trying to convince you of. Gilgamesh resisted being convinced of much worse, with much stronger persuasive abilities. He will never be convinced he is turning into a snail. End of story.

Gilgamesh's mind was ******* remade from the ground up. His entire brain was literally created in his skull for him to be evil. That's conscious, unconscious, liminal, and subliminal, all in one.

And he still resisted it. He's not transforming into a snail.
 
I don't remember reading that but for some reason I feel the convincing part may be a translation error.

I'll agree with you for now but I may find a better scan for that.
 
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