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Love is everlasting! Love will light the way! (DB Super, again)

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So I dont See anything against at least 4-B, Possibly 3-A or straight up 3-A
This scaling is more solid & consistent than High 4-C scaling especially when Pride troopers are far Superior to napapa who is 4-B
 
I do agree the underdogs should be upgraded to 4-B scaling from Basil and Napapa. And the new improved Katchin is stronger than the regular Katchin that even 4-B's typically struggled to break. But I can't really comment much on 3-A 18 or Ribrianne atm.
 
People have to give reason why
Also I dont See anyone disagree with 4-B
So my proposal is at least 4-B, Possibly 3-A , the intermediate solution even though its clearly straight up 3-A as shown in the heavy beam struggle
 
Nullflowerblush said:
In case it's needed, a recap of all the good 3-A feats:
Click to expand...
 
  • Tupper and Zoire are both underdogs, and Goku was literally just d*cking around like he always does around fodder underdogs in the tournament.
  • Again, Goku was messing around. Tupper doesn't scale from base Goku.
  • Not really sure why's scale, it's literally a repeat of Goku and Vegeta stomping the Universe 9 trio. It just didn't look like they were going all out.
  • Goku was blitzing him in base form, and once he did go SSB, he literally just B slaps her. Looks more like another Goku Vs Krillin.
  • I don't think replicating the same power is enough evidence for them to default the same tier, not saying it can't. But the three were struggling to take out an exhausted/crippled Goku. And once he went SSB, he literally obliterates them. 17 was also repelling them.
  • Vegeta was stomping her in base form and even in the end considered them too pathetic to even use his full power.
  • I don't really see signs of Vegeta taking the fight too seriously, and a compliment isn't exactly enough for him to be Goku or Vegeta's level. Goku complemented Krillin and Vegeta complimented Master Roshi.
  • 17 wasn't really taking the fight seriously, and 17 pretty much didn't need the barrier anymore and likely lowered the defenses in said instance.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Tupper and Zoire are both underdogs, and Goku was literally just d*cking around like he always does around fodder underdogs in the tournament.
Click to expand...
You can’t just declare they’re underdogs for no reason whatsoever. That’d be headcanon. And saying Goku was screwing around is also pretty inaccurate considering that he was visibly struggling while Tupper was holding him, and the fact that 18 told him to be careful doesn’t scream that Goku could’ve broken free at any moment.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Not really sure why's scale, it's literally a repeat of Goku and Vegeta stomping the Universe 9 trio. It just didn't look like they were going all out.
Click to expand...
This is just straight up untrue. The Pride Troopers’ beams clash with SSJ Caulifla and SSJ Kale’s at 1:51 and they remain in a beam struggle until 2:02, where the Pride Troopers overpower them, and continue to do so until 2:34, where Caulifla and Kale have to go SSJ2 and LSSJ, respectively, to overpower the Pride Troopers. I have no idea how you got Caulifla and Kale stomping them from that, nor do I have any idea where you got the idea of Caulifla and Kale not going all-out there.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Goku was blitzing him in base form, and once he did go SSB, he literally just B slaps her. Looks more like another Goku Vs Krillin.
Click to expand...
Literally where did he blitz her in base? Also speed =/= AP, so that’s not a proper counter regardless.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Vegeta was stomping her in base form and even in the end considered them too pathetic to even use his full power.
Click to expand...
This is patently untrue. Ribrianne’s attack clashed with Vegeta’s for a pretty significant amount of time before being overpowered and she no-sold his attack when it did overpower her. Rozie was also able to knock Vegeta back with a kick. Also, Vegeta never once stated that they were too pathetic for his full power. That statement literally never happens.
 
I say that I agree on Matt here, I always thought that but I was afraid of saying it in public :v. I think that writers and others just decided to ignore the god being absorbed in base and use ssj forms as they have always been for the sake of the plot and everything.

I also think that it is much more likely and consistent, than thinking that everyone became universe level from a day to another, including people like Cabba who didn't even know what ssj was. In the same way is weird how Goku can still become god, like stacking the same power up again.

I don't even care what the end of the debate will be and I won't push further this idea whatsoever, I just wanted to finally say it without looking like the one single weirdo. 👀
 
SamanPatou said:
I say that I agree on Matt here, I always thought that but I was afraid of saying it in public :v. I think that writers and others just decided to ignore the god being absorbed in base and use ssj forms as they have always been for the sake of the plot and everything.

I also think that it is much more likely and consistent, than thinking that everyone became universe level from a day to another, including people like Cabba who didn't even know what ssj was. In the same way is weird how Goku can still become god, like stacking the same power up again.

I don't even care what the end of the debate will be and I won't push further this idea whatsoever, I just wanted to finally say it without looking like the one single weirdo. 👀
Click to expand...
no goku absorb it in base and can use ssg whenever and when Shenron told the myth about the super sayian god it said there power had it limited time and that there were destroying those who oppose them until he lost the power and he didn't absorb it this show goku and vegeta are unique as there able to absorb god power in there base and activate god ki whenever
 
RippleW said:
no goku absorb it in base and can use ssg whenever and when Shenron told the myth about the super sayian god it said there power had it limited time and that there were destroying those who oppose them until he lost the power and he didn't absorb it this show goku and vegeta are unique as there able to absorb god power in there base and activate god ki whenever
Click to expand...
He never absorbed it in base even in the Battle of Gods arc.
 
Sigh, both sides are saying things arbitrary. First of all, base Goku is clearly Universal. I don't need to constantly repeat the BoG lore over and over again, and he only got much stronger. Goku was fighting better in base form than he was previously in SSG form, then fought even better when he transformed again. Then there are multiple instances of base Goku surpassing SSB Vegeta and then Vegeta temporarily surpasses Goku after his next zenka and so on.

But Goku wasn't even using his Ki against Tupper, and he was smiling and laughing as if he was literally just messing around. They were stomped by 18 who is in turn considered an underdog compared to 17 and the like. The U6 Saiyans didn't even appear to be going all out during the beam struggle, and once they yelled, their beams swiftly overpowered the Pride Troopers and blew them all away.

Actually, in Dragon Ball, speed does effect AP in general cases. Still, Vegeta was shown significantly swifter than Ribrianne even in base and knocked her around casually. Also, he said "They ran off" and turned the other cheek. That's a pretty common, "They're not worth it" gesture.
 
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But Goku wasn't even using his Ki against Tupper, and he was smiling and laughing as if he was literally just messing around. They were stomped by 18 who is in turn considered an underdog compared to 17 and the like. The U6 Saiyans didn't even appear to be going all out during the beam struggle, and once they yelled, their beams swiftly overpowered the Pride Troopers and blew them all away.
Click to expand...
He used his Ki against Zoire, so... and how exactly is he supposed to use ki when he’s, y’know, being restrained? No, he only started laughing after 18 freed him, and it was a nervous laugh, not a “oh I’ve been messing around this whole time” laugh. He was visibly straining while Tupper was on him. Just saying “this character is an underdog” means nothing on its own, actually explain why this is this case instead of just slapping a label on them without evidence. Otherwise, it’s little more than headcanon.

Literally nothing implies Caulifla and Kale were holding back or not going all-out. First of all, they were both in SSJ and still being overpowered, Caulifla had to go SSJ2 and Kale had to use LSSJ to overpower them.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Actually, in Dragon Ball, speed does effect AP in general cases. Still, Vegeta was shown significantly swifter than Ribrianne even in base and knocked her around casually. Also, he said "They ran off" and turned the other cheek. That's a pretty common, "They're not worth it" gesture.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t mean you can use speed to say someone doesn’t scale in AP, that’s frankly nonsensical. Vegeta was not casual, that is blantantly untrue. And you overlooked the fact that as he ran off, he said “Where did they go,” clearly implying that he was searching for them. So no, it doesn’t mean he thought they were worthless, that would be headcanon.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Sigh, both sides are saying things arbitrary. First of all, base Goku is clearly Universal. I don't need to constantly repeat the BoG lore over and over again, and he only got much stronger. Goku was fighting better in base form than he was previously in SSG form, then fought even better when he transformed again. Then there are multiple instances of base Goku surpassing SSB Vegeta and then Vegeta temporarily surpasses Goku after his next zenka and so on.
Click to expand...
No he's not in the context of BoG Goku absorbed a portion of the God Ki into his Super Saiyan form but he still had to go Super Saiyan God to go all out.
 
I need to get ready for work, so will tackle other things later.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
No he's not in the context of BoG Goku absorbed a portion of the God Ki into his Super Saiyan form but he still had to go Super Saiyan God to go all out.
Click to expand...
wrong goku absorb all of it he stated himself I don't feel different at all meaning he didn't get weaker but stronger, this when he was in ssj then later on base goku destroy sphere of destruction meaning base goku must of absorb ssg to even pull that of because as we see goku before getting god power couldn't even hit beerus or survive 3 attacks also goku still 3A in base
 
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Goku absorbing the GoD blast wasn't the reason for base Goku becoming universal, it was the simple fact that during the entire fight, Goku was getting stronger and faster with each and every second that passes. And that fact remained true even after his SSG form wore off, even before transforming back, his base form is already 3-A. But when he went SSJ and later back to SSG, he only grew much stronger. Furthermore, Goku is stated to have the strength of a SSG even in his base form as of RoF saga. And even in U6 saga, Goku was able to keep up with casual Hit when SSB Vegeta couldn't even counter the first base style. Not to mention, Goku and Vegeta going from base to SSB, as well as Trunks and his various SSJ2 forms being on par with Goku Black and Zamasu and exchanging Bankais is more than enough evidence Goku is only further much stronger.

He used light ki blasts against Zoirey, but he wasn't going all out. And Tupper jumped on him while he was distracted, and he looked as if he wasn't even trying to overthrow him. Also, him grunting and all that isn't a sign for Goku to appear struggling. Heck, even going SSB to make himself look like he's going all out when he's clearly not even close to using his base forms true power is something Goku mastered doing. Quoting what Dark649 said a long time ago, "SSB Goku is like so skilled with Ki Control, he can trade blows with a 10-C and make himself look like he's going all out." That's a super stretchy claim, but he's right Goku is good at making himself look like he's going all out when he clearly isn't. Such as when he went Super Saiyan Blue against Krillin.

Vegeta couldn't use Ki sense given it was restricted by Tournament rules I forgot if that was the reason. Or people from other universes can't be Ki sensed like the U7 Vs U9 preliminaries. But he mostly just looked briefly and didn't look hard hide and seek style, he just gave some simple looks and walked away. But Vegeta was still pummeling her and clearly blitzing her in base.

Yeah, it actually does look like they were charging hard at the last period. The U6 Saiyans, but it's still contradictory to other portrayals of various other Pride Troopers.
 
Last edited:
Reminder that Base Goku in Super punched the universe ending ball out of existence (somehow), and that the SSJ God absorption only happened in the movie.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
He used light ki blasts against Zoirey, but he wasn't going all out.
Click to expand...
He wasn’t going all out, based on... what?
DarkDragonMedeus said:
And Tupper jumped on him while he was distracted, and he looked as if he wasn't even trying to overthrow him. Also, him grunting and all that isn't a sign for Goku to appear struggling.
Click to expand...
Please explain why Goku would just let himself be restrained and being dug into the ground if he can just casually throw Tupper off. Because the scene definitely did not imply that Goku could get free at any moment.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Quoting what Dark649 said a long time ago, "SSB Goku is like so skilled with Ki Control, he can trade blows with a 10-C and make himself look like he's going all out." That's a super stretchy claim, but he's right Goku is good at making himself look like he's going all out when he clearly isn't.
Click to expand...
”when he clearly isn’t” Says who? It really just seems like a baseless assumption that Goku isn’t trying whatsoever, which is not supported by the scene.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But Vegeta was still pummeling her and clearly blitzing her in base.
Click to expand...
No, he literally wasn’t. Ribrianne no-sold one of his blasts, clashed with him, and if you want to bring up speed even though it’s irrelevant, she could dodge several of his ki blasts. And Rozie knocked him back with a kick.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, it actually does look like they were charging hard at the last period. The U6 Saiyans, but it's still contradictory to other portrayals of various other Pride Troopers.
Click to expand...
Literally which Pride Troopers? Because apart from ones that were fighting Caulifla and Kale, the three we already have at 3-A, and Jiren, there is a grand total of TWO other Pride Troopers, one of which is Tupper. So I’d love to know what these other portrayals are when there’s only two more Pride Troopers, and I’d love to know why that somehow overrides what four of them did.
 
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