Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

[Chariot190]

Sheik's greatest physical feat is not being killed by Bongo Bongo.

Whom is what tier? Also, she's equal to a Sage, who as we all know, buff up Link exponentially. Could also restrain Ganon briefly.

The Phantoms are Tier 6, Ghost Zelda isn't.

Whom she posseses, controls, and you play almost exclusively as.

 

[Chariot190]

Ahhh. Hey, rewatching that cutscene, Sheik saying "This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time... Listen to this, the Nocturne of Shadow!!" is just flowery language &/or hyperbole, right?

A lil? Like we know what the song actually does, and it ain't that, but even if that wasn't, like, wtf would it mean? Need more info and showings.

But given Sheik yaps about the other songs in abstract flowery ways, it's probably non-literal.

 

[Imaginym]

A lil? Like we know what the song actually does, and it ain't that, but even if that wasn't, like, wtf would it mean? Need more info and showings.

But given Sheik yaps about the other songs in abstract flowery ways, it's probably non-literal.

Ahhh, thanks for answering! Any idea about my other question?:

Also, Bongo Bongo appears to be visible while moving in the cutscene. In the video, I watched, it resembled static.

Is that the shadow of Bongo Bongo? The raindrops on its physical form?

I'm wondering if it could be something to due with an issue on the uploader's end maybe?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Whom is what tier? Also, she's equal to a Sage, who as we all know, buff up Link exponentially. Could also restrain Ganon briefly.

Zelda you're right about; Sheik is not a Sage. Also Ganon was near dead.

Whom she posseses, controls, and you play almost exclusively as.

Only the Hyrule Warriors version of her can summon armors for herself.

 

[Chariot190]

Zelda you're right about; Sheik is not a Sage. Also Ganon was near dead.

When did I call her a Sage? I said she was equal to one, which she is, in fact, based on what she actually does and the downfall timeline, she's arguably stronger.
Ganon, wasn't near dead? That isn't how Ganon works, nor the ToP (in fact it literally made it so like, that wasn't happening), he took damage yeah, and before he could get back up, she held him down so Link could make him near death, so they could seal him. This still doesn't change what she did and let's not pretend the immortal superhuman stamina pig demon who can fight for days at minimum and shrug off fatal wounds with the ToP preventing his death means her doing what she did means she doesn't scale to some degree, because she does, and hell, Link's followup doesn't even kill him, despite having a sword thrust through his skull.
This alone makes her magic well past any Sage so, there's that, but also like high tier 6, low 5? Because Ganon is literally Ganon.
Edit: Oh right, Light Arrows also come from her in OOT.

Only the Hyrule Warriors version of her can summon armors for herself.

So? We'd treat that as standard equipment profile speaking given it's her primary means to like, do anything and she uses them constantly. Plus as Dust mentioned, Malladus.

Either way you're wrong about the whole Zelda not being past that thing, hell I could name more. Basically any Zelda that has magic has extreme AP, even WW Zelda has like 6-something AP with her bow of light.

Also, Bongo Bongo appears to be visible while moving in the cutscene. In the video, I watched, it resembled static.

Is that the shadow of Bongo Bongo? The raindrops on its physical form?

you mean like here? That's because the rain in OOT falls depending on Link's position, Link, in that cutscene is standing on the ground next to the well, so the game treats everything on the axis Link's feet is on, as "the ground", and that's where the rain falls. The rain ain't falling on Bongo there, it's just a visual "glitch" due to game limitation.

As an example, you can get a good view in fron of the Shadow Temple, if Link stands on the rail, the ground/elevation will change to that, and the rain will fall on the air like it was the ground.

 

[Imaginym]

When did I call her a Sage? I said she was equal to one, which she is, in fact, based on what she actually does and the downfall timeline, she's arguably stronger.
Ganon, wasn't near dead? That isn't how Ganon works, nor the ToP (in fact it literally made it so like, that wasn't happening), he took damage yeah, and before he could get back up, she held him down so Link could make him near death, so they could seal him. This still doesn't change what she did and let's not pretend the immortal superhuman stamina pig demon who can fight for days at minimum and shrug off fatal wounds with the ToP preventing his death means her doing what she did means she doesn't scale to some degree, because she does, and hell, Link's followup doesn't even kill him, despite having a sword thrust through his skull.
This alone makes her magic well past any Sage so, there's that, but also like high tier 6, low 5? Because Ganon is literally Ganon.
Edit: Oh right, Light Arrows also come from her in OOT.

Apologies to jump in on this topic, but....
So, was Zelda damaging him? Negating his regeneration with magic?
Also, fight for days? Is that assuming OoT Ganon is comparable to his ALttP incarnations? Admittedly, I can kinda understand if it's something like Base>Beast>ToP Ganon? (Even though he starts with the ToP as it's part of his cycle of Reincarnation?)

Incidentally, his Stamina stuff for his 3rd key seems unsourced:

Stamina: Superhuman (Should scale to other well-trained Gerudo who can fight with and train for long periods of time without fatigue) | Superhuman (Fought Link for several days straight[82]) | Superhuman (He can continually battle with various incarnations of Link while ignoring and laughing off fatal wounds and showing no signs of tiring. Kept his castle floating dozens, if not hundreds, of feet in the air for several years nonstop with his magic and wasn't fatigued by this in the slightest) | Superhuman

Is this because of something about his TP version being impaled?
Also, what if his castle levitating was done by just investing a ton of power all at once into a "Levitate indefinitely" or "Levitate for a large amount of time", or some kind of localized change of the laws of nature -like gravity- by dark magic, similar to how dark magic causes other things to float in voids or such in fiction?
What's the indication Hyrule Castle levitates through a continous exertion of Ganondorf's power?

So? We'd treat that as standard equipment profile speaking given it's her primary means to like, do anything and she uses them constantly. Plus as Dust mentioned, Malladus.

Either way you're wrong about the whole Zelda not being past that thing, hell I could name more. Basically any Zelda that has magic has extreme AP, even WW Zelda has like 6-something AP with her bow of light.


you mean like here? That's because the rain in OOT falls depending on Link's position, Link, in that cutscene is standing on the ground next to the well, so the game treats everything on the axis Link's feet is on, as "the ground", and that's where the rain falls. The rain ain't falling on Bongo there, it's just a visual "glitch" due to game limitation.

As an example, you can get a good view in fron of the Shadow Temple, if Link stands on the rail, the ground/elevation will change to that, and the rain will fall on the air like it was the ground.

Hmmm. Checking the video, & a 2nd video of the N64 cutscene version (In both cases, I watched the N64 version's cutscene.) it seems like 1 of the uploaders had some glitches on their end that made Bongo Bongo's shadow look static-y as it travelled across Kakariko's surface.

Still, presumably Bongo Bongo wasn't both invisible AND intangible, right? Did it not seize & throw Sheik like it does in its boss battle against Link。But can the rain be seen falling on Bongo Bongo? Is the rain not being seen falling on it a technical limitation rather than an indication of physical properties?

 

[Chariot190]

Apologies to jump in on this topic, but....
So, was Zelda damaging him? Negating his regeneration with magic?

Restraining him, which she specifies is under her own power, but like, he's 6-A, 5-B, idk whatever. Her magic could hold him in place despite evident attempts to break free.

Also, fight for days? Is that assuming OoT Ganon is comparable to his ALttP incarnations?

I'd assume so. The whole immortality stamina whatever thing I'd presume is the ToP at play, not like ToW does that shit.

Admittedly, I can kinda understand if it's something like Base>Beast>ToP Ganon? (Even though he starts with the ToP as it's part of his cycle of Reincarnation?)

I was thinking more just stuff the ToP does, which OOT Beast Ganon has, and in that very same scene is preventing his death anyway.

Incidentally, his Stamina stuff for his 3rd key seems unsourced:

Stamina: Superhuman (Should scale to other well-trained Gerudo who can fight with and train for long periods of time without fatigue) | Superhuman (Fought Link for several days straight[82]) | Superhuman (He can continually battle with various incarnations of Link while ignoring and laughing off fatal wounds and showing no signs of tiring. Kept his castle floating dozens, if not hundreds, of feet in the air for several years nonstop with his magic and wasn't fatigued by this in the slightest) | Superhuman

The fatal wound and Link stuff is just kinda obvious, OOT actually is an example, he dies but the ToP revives him and he keeps fighting as Beast Ganon. If you take the promotional OOT3D comic that's like, 3 pages long, he gets slashed in the abdomen and shrugs it off.


But in TP he has so many dumb feats due to the ToP which like, yeah he's def not out of the battle because he's hit a handful of times.

Is this because of something about his TP version being impaled?

Idk but that's also a point, every WW and TP purely stamina feat would scale, so yeah he's kinda cracked.

Also, what if his castle levitating was done by just investing a ton of power all at once into a "Levitate indefinitely" or "Levitate for a large amount of time", or some kind of localized change of the laws of nature -like gravity- by dark magic, similar to how dark magic causes other things to float in voids or such in fiction? What's the indication Hyrule Castle levitates through a continous exertion of Ganondorf's power?

That's making a whole bunch of extra assumptions, in a verse filled with the opposite, like how Vaati's (gross) castle explodes on death and Zelda hammering in it relied on his power, he's gone, so it's going too.

Like, you're right we don't know 100%, but occam's razor, in a game filled with stuff where magic just ceases on death or extreme injury so...
Like it don't really matter anyway, he's a Gerudo elite so his stamina is fundamentally up there, he obv scales to the likes of Link, and in OOT, he literally dies and the ToP goes "uhm, wrong actually" and then getting stabbed in the head fails to kill him and he's cursing Link out not even a minute not even a minute later....

Though ngl, I would prefer it if it was grav magic, him having like Class T grav magic would be better than an ultimately useless stamina feat but can't assume that without statements.

 

[Imaginym]

Restraining him, which she specifies is under her own power, but like, he's 6-A, 5-B, idk whatever. Her magic could hold him in place despite evident attempts to break free.

I suppose it's based on her calling it "power" & we're assuming that translates to raw magical power, as opposed to abilities, like potentially Paralysis Inducement?

I'd assume so. The whole immortality stamina whatever thing I'd presume is the ToP at play, not like ToW does that shit.

I was thinking more just stuff the ToP does, which OOT Beast Ganon has, and in that very same scene is preventing his death anyway.

The fatal wound and Link stuff is just kinda obvious, OOT actually is an example, he dies but the ToP revives him and he keeps fighting as Beast Ganon. If you take the promotional OOT3D comic that's like, 3 pages long, he gets slashed in the abdomen and shrugs it off.


But in TP he has so many dumb feats due to the ToP which like, yeah he's def not out of the battle because he's hit a handful of times.



Idk but that's also a point, every WW and TP purely stamina feat would scale, so yeah he's kinda cracked.

That's making a whole bunch of extra assumptions, in a verse filled with the opposite, like how Vaati's (gross) castle explodes on death and Zelda hammering in it relied on his power, he's gone, so it's going too.

Like, you're right we don't know 100%, but occam's razor, in a game filled with stuff where magic just ceases on death or extreme injury so...
Like it don't really matter anyway, he's a Gerudo elite so his stamina is fundamentally up there, he obv scales to the likes of Link, and in OOT, he literally dies and the ToP goes "uhm, wrong actually" and then getting stabbed in the head fails to kill him and he's cursing Link out not even a minute not even a minute later....

Though ngl, I would prefer it if it was grav magic, him having like Class T grav magic would be better than an ultimately useless stamina feat but can't assume that without statements.

Fair enough, I guess.

 

[Chariot190]

I suppose it's based on her calling it "power" & we're assuming that translates to raw magical power, as opposed to abilities, like potentially Paralysis Inducement?

Why would it be literally anything else? I could check the japanese if you want but like, why would this be the exception? Though, checking actually solved the issue, hard confirms what she meant.
"私の力で魔王を押さえます。
あとはあなたの剣で魔王にとどめを！", extra mention, "ちから" is written above the kanji she states, just to specify what she meant.

she uses 力 (ちから, chikara) (aka power, strength), so it's talking about like, actual power not hax or abilities.
("By my power, I will hold down the Demon King. Afterwards, with your sword, deliver the finishing blow to the Demon King!")

Fair enough, I guess.

I mean to be fair, I actually wouldn't list it as a stamina feat