Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

[Dust_Collector]

Someone made a comparison of the timeline from creating a champion and the updated one in the masterworks, again translations are still in the early stages but for the most part this is accurate (Still some debates about whether the goddesses directly made the stones themselves or if they were just a byproduct of them making the world)

 

[Chariot190]

The way that's worded makes it seem like Ganon was born after Zelda went to the past so, obv some fuckys still.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I don't think the timeline is referring to his actual birth when it says that, just his transformation into the Demon King. Even the game calls the memory where he first transforms "Birth of the Demon King" so it's just an odd way of saying that the Demon King version of him specifically was "born" so I think that translation specifcally is fine, but there's still a lot of fuckey translations going around since it's still early days of the book coming out.

 

[Nierre]

ill wait for the better translations to avoid confusing myself

 

[Dust_Collector]

mannn there's a lotta concept art in the masterworks showing Ganondorf with a trident. There's also the inital reveal that had a mural showing him with a trident too and it really makes me wish he had it. I like the whole multi-weapon swap thing he has in the final game but it would've been cool to have a (canon) Ganondorf using the trident instead of having it always relgated to his beast form.

 

[Hypertornado099]

I ain't reading alla dat

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

"it isn't tailored to my direct wants".
Man as said, actually obnoxious. It looks fine, you don't like the gimmick, so what? Shit just ain't for you specifically I guess, that doesn't mean go and yap about it every chance you get because it doesn't strictly appeal to you.
Shit happens, get over it, the gimmick looks fine, interesting, cool, and could lead to an exorbinant amount of shit and utility as it's open-ended with lots of options.

This is testamount to if I complained about how majora is bad because "oh a time limit to do stuff is uninteresting" or "albw is bad because it's just turning into a picture how boring". Like damn dude, nobody said you have to like it, but all you ******* talk about it is how much you aren't vibing with it, which, yeah cool, still doesn't change the fact it's annoying, like why go online just to complain about shit you don't like? Not because it's actually bad, but just because you don't specifically like it? Do you not have anything more substantial to talk about? Like come on man.

I don't have "direct wants", the Tri Rod mechanic just looks like it visibly slows down combat, the automatons slightly less so.

*tantamount Also neither of those have anything to do with combat. It feels like you think I hate it just because it's a mechanic.

And I'm still saying as much, that's evidently the sort of thing you wanted, you wanted her to have have a sword, fight, and basically be Link 2, now she can under certain situations.

No, I said I wanted Zelda to have a means of defending herself other than the Tri Rod, and a rapier would be a good way of doing that.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't have "direct wants",

you very evidently do my dude.
Like in this very post you go on about the rapier again and combat.

the Tri Rod mechanic just looks like it visibly slows down combat,

It isn't a combat focused game? It isn't meant to be fast-paced action.

the automatons slightly less so.

It isn't a combat focused game? It isn't meant to be fast-paced action.

*tantamount

I can't believe we're in the year 2024.

Also neither of those have anything to do with combat.

it isn't a combat focused game? Like man go play Sekiro idk, the funny spinoff zelda game with a focus on weird puzzle tools def aint for you.

It feels like you think I hate it just because it's a mechanic.

I mean, yeah ngl, seems pretty evident.

No, I said I wanted Zelda to have a means of defending herself other than the Tri Rod, and a rapier would be a good way of doing that.

And you got that, so what's the issue? Because it wasn't the specific method you wanted it's bad?

As said, game ain't for you, that's fine, cool, yapping about how bad it is and acting like it's some sort of objective truth every time because it doesn't do the stuff you specifically want, is just obnoxious. Like **** dude if you don't like it that doesn't mean be annoying about it, go do or talk about something you actually like.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It seems that Nintendo released the timeline with the inclusion of new games, and they don't even link Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom to each other.

Does this change the profiles in any way?

 

[Chariot190]

It seems that Nintendo released the timeline with the inclusion of new games, and they don't even link Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom to each other.

Does this change the profiles in any way?

That's been the case for years, even on Zelda Portal.
Last i checked, unless they changed the actual reason why, it's to convey they happen so fuckass long after every other game that they're basically standalone and the games of the past are nothing but myths or no longer remembered. Like some weird cyclical shit where everything that could have happened, happened.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

That's been the case for years, even on Zelda Portal.
Last i checked, unless they changed the actual reason why, it's to convey they happen so fuckass long after every other game that they're basically standalone and the games of the past are nothing but myths or no longer remembered. Like some weird cyclical shit where everything that could have happened, happened.

I don't remember that being a reason, tbh

 

[Hypertornado099]

I don't remember that being a reason, tbh

The Zelda wiki has an explanation

 

[Nierre]

 

[Imaginym]

It seems like I should repost this here:




Nintendo is now being harsher on videos that repost things like tournaments, gameplay sequences, trailers, etc. without "creative or editorial" input.

Why I think this concerns us is that this hurts videos that upload, like, hours of uncommented gameplay, which might start disappearing in the future.
Those videos are very valuable for sourcing feats & stuff.

Backing up your scans may also be worthwhile. As always.

 

[Chariot190]

It seems like I should repost this here:




Nintendo is now being harsher on videos that repost things like tournaments, gameplay sequences, trailers, etc. without "creative or editorial" input.

Why I think this concerns us is that this hurts videos that upload, like, hours of uncommented gameplay, which might start disappearing in the future.
Those videos are very valuable for sourcing feats & stuff.

Backing up your scans may also be worthwhile. As always.

Me when i get basically all my footage myself

 

[Imaginym]

Apparently we're getting to the time where certain people are being selected to play games for a bit early but can't show the whole thing.
That guy got about an hour & a half. He got to the Link fight & a boss fight.

There's a couple of scans of gameplay. One of them includes a statement about the energy from the sword Link drops being more powerful than the rift. The reviewer claims the sword doesn't look like the one in the trailer, but I didn't compare.

Old info, IIRC, but any defeated enemy becomes accessible as an Echo.

The reviewer apparently had difficulties (Par for the course, really.), like failing to beat his first moblin by spamming ropes (snake enemies.) because the ropes couldn't get to it after the moblin ended up on a slightly elevated ledge & so he had to resort to creating & throwing rock Echoes.

Probably other stuff. He seemed amazed by how many ways puzzles had to solve them. To me, that's not surprising. Haven't played recent Zeldas, but I recall stuff about them trying to make the puzzle solving in Zelda more open-ended lately.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah Echoes of Wisdom seems to have a pretty solid balance between classic 2D gameplay and the open ended "do whatever the hell you want" gameplay from BOTW / TOTK.

 

[Imaginym]

Oh, & I forgot, but I think he also mentioned something about Swordfighter Form being able to jump better?

 

[Imaginym]

I may be being a bit hasty lately, but Zeltik is definitely one of the better The Legend of Zelda Youtubers, & the video from Zeltik seems to feature a lot more gameplay.
I'm linking this before I watch it, but I have good hopes.

Apparently, it's the first dungeon & boss from a fixed save point.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

...Can you use the defeated Link as Echoes?

 

[Imaginym]

...Can you use the defeated Link as Echoes?

Currently going through Zeltik's video typing up everything I can take note of.

if I find an answer to that anywhere on YT, I'm confident I'll mention it, but I'd be surprised if so. Then again, Nintendo likes their surprises.

Also, it'd be weird if so, since: 1. He drops a sword that supposedly isn't that of the real Link (According to Nintendo Life's reviewer; Again, I haven't compared the footages.), which may mean it wasn't the real Link. & 2. If it isn't the real Link, then the real Link may have the "sword of evil's bane" to prevent whatever sent the evil Link after Zelda.

Plus, you get Swordfighter Mode shortly after, which might render a Link Echo A LITTLE redundant at that point?

Put simply, I'm unsure the boss Link is Link possessed rather than like, a dark energy facsimile or such.

Also, if we could, mind that apparently, some Echoes cost more triangles from Tri, so Link would probably be a more costlier Echo than others, I bet.

 

[Imaginym]

I may be being a bit hasty lately, but Zeltik is definitely one of the better The Legend of Zelda Youtubers, & the video from Zeltik seems to feature a lot more gameplay.
I'm linking this before I watch it, but I have good hopes.

Apparently, it's the first dungeon & boss from a fixed save point.

From Zeltik's video:

Spoiler: Lots of text, potential spoilers

Info from log: Impostor versions of the king, general & minister came from the rifts. Impostor king says Zelda is responsible for creating them.


Impa's dialogue with Zelda also mentions the "phony king" is talking of executing Zelda.
(Even without seeing if he's an obvious fake by appearance or not, I've gotta ask: Are the citizens of Hyrule just helpless to oppose, or really gullible?)

Zelda can despawn/"erase" an Echo she's facing by pressing ZR, or despawn/"erase" all of them by holding ZR.
Some Echoes cost different numbers of Triangles from Tri.
Placing an Echo above the limit despawns the earliest.

Zelda can jump, & can spin. The spin doesn't damage most enemies or objects but can cut the grass.
There is an L-Targeting system.
The right control stick can be used for changing camera views. (Oh boy, I bet that'll be fun for angling scans for feats, & manipulating stuff in speedruns.)

There is a Hero Mode, with a few examples of effects from the menu being double damage, no heart drops & some accessories having no effects.

The Zol enemy has the following description: "A weak, gelatinous monster that moves slowly by expanding and contracting." (Fodder scaling relevancy?)

Tri after Zelda defeats a Zol: "Did you defeat that monster? Defeating new monsters leaves a shimmer, which allows you learn about them like you just did."

One man near Suthorn Village mentions that a cloak looks a lot like Link's, suggesting this world's Link is/was well-known. He also mentions that his wife got "swallowed up" by the rift. (& then yells for her "Wiiiiiife! Can you hear me? I'm right here!". Even around a stranger, let alone when in distress, who calls their wife "wife"?! Or their husband "husband"?!)

Another man mentions "A rift appeared north of here, and it grew so fast that one of us got caught inside!". ....Does this mean the only one who didn't escape the "fast" rift was someone's wife, who, based on the earlier man's appearance, might be middle-aged herself?!
The man also laments that they can not "run to Hyrule Castle", as the rift is also blocking the way there to Hyrule Castle.

The same man statedly wishes Link were here. Dialogue seems to indicate Link is well known in Suthorn Town, as it is his hometown.
"Link is a young fellow from this village. He's better with a sword than anyone here!" (Supporting skill feat, albeit, coming from a random old man in a small village....)
More dialogue: "He helps us with lots of problems. Monsters, weeds, you name it. But he's gone off on a journey, right when we need him. How curious... Link wears a cloak like yours. Ah, Link... I hope you're all right."

Zeltik infers that Zelda doesn't seem to know who Link is, & thus, that Echoes of Wisdom does not take place directly after another game.

Link's house can be found in this village. It has 2 breakable pots, which as Zeltik states, "also means we can get revenge for every Hyrulian citizen in history, & break Link's pots".

We don't get the full dialogue about Waypoint statues, just Tri saying "Hey, Zelda. Have a look at this.", Zelda activating one, a map lighting up & the text "This waypoint has been recorded."

There are Ignizols, which are candle-like Zols that set anything they touch aflame.

Zelda obtains an empty bottle, but it's called a "fairy bottle" in this. It's stated that "You found a fairy bottle. Fairies love these sturdy bottles and will jump right inside." (I wonder if that was changed in localization. Fear of cruelty to the fair folk?)
Also, sturdy? Are fairy bottles/glass bottles considered sturdy in this world?! Admittedly, many do survive Link's adventures....

Notably, when Zelda swam to a fairy in the water, it was obtained. "A fairy jumped into your bottle! The fairy will automatically restore some hearts if you run out!"

The Tri Rod's description is seen: Tri Rod. "Tri loaned you this mystical rod. With its power, you can echo things you've learned." (Surprising to me at least, that they don't capitalize the term "echo".)

Monster camps return. 1 has "10 bunches of refreshing grapes" as a reward. "This item can be used to restore hearts but is more effective when mixed into a drink."
Apparently, things like this are meant as smoothie ingredients. (Interesting cuisine in this world, & Business Scrubs are needed to make those smoothies.)

The house Impa directs Zelda to go to on the map ends up having its door blocked by a rift. Notably, the door covers only part of the doorway, & it's unclear if it conforms to the contours of the land, the shapes of structure's like buildings, etc.
Graphically, they're weird. Are rifts superimposed textures or such? If a rift appears on a floor & a wall.... Well, I'd assume it works like there's no floor nor wall there?

Also, Tri says about said rift:
"Hm? Was this where we were supposed to go? Looks like the rift is blocking the door... Zelda. My role is to mend rifts. I have lots of friends who all do the same. We all work together, fixing up rifts. Normally, my friends fix them quickly. So it's... weird that this is still here. I wonder if something happened to them. Zelda, will you investigate with me? I'm guessing my friends are in the rift. And if we find them, we can mend this rift easily."

(In my opinion, that last claim is notable, in part because that rift looks pretty big.)
Zeltik refers to Tri with "her". Tri is female?

Echoes of Wisdom features an element system. Apparently, most of Zeltik's echoes were defeated by a tough peahat enemy, but an Ignizol made it easy to defeat. Peahats are tough for Moblins in this world? Or are Echoes just less skilled?

Peathat description: "A large plant creature that spins its spiky roots to attack. Like most plants, it is vulnerable to fire."

Tri about the Still World:

"This is the Still World. Everything you see floating around in here was sucked in through a rift. Anything that ends up here will begin to break apart and eventually vanish completely. Me and my friends have the ability to restore things that have ended up in rifts though. Speaking of, I sense my friends in here. Let's go, Zelda."
(I wonder how that affects living things, among other details. Also, lol, I do wonder if that inherent, implicit limitation of their restoration will come up.)

Apparently, this Still World is made from pieces of the Suthorn Forest.

There's a void coloured Moblin like enemy seen, which Zeltik uses a Peahat Echo to fight. Zeltik describes them as "dark, gooey imitations".

1 lady is floating, suspended in air, tinted purple.

Tri: "When people get pulled into rifts, they kind of... petrify and can't move anymore. And if they stay that way, they'll eventually fade away. But that won't happen to you, Zelda. You're special."

(Once again, I wonder about how that doesn't happen to Zelda. The dialogue seems to end there, without further explanation of that. Triforce holder property, since Tri calling her special indicates her tolerance of being in the rifts isn't from Tri?)

Tri, about Suthorn Ruins: "This is where you were trapped not too long ago. We're getting closer to my friends. They're farther in, but we're getting there."

Watching, Bind appears to work by Tri entering the object/being infused into it. Tri's dialogue: "We're bound together. OK, now try moving." The tutorial menu says: "Use X to guide Tri. The monster or object that Tri binds to will then follow Zelda's movements. You can also use ZL to target whatever you want Tri to bind to."

There are Darknuts in Suthorn Ruins.

Tri, at the start of the Link battle: "Huh? Is that the person who fought the blue monster?"
Zeltik calls it a "shadowy clone of the swordsman". IDK if that has any basis. (Also, IIRC, Nintendo Life's reviewer mentioned Link usually following the player, & speeding up & attacking more if his shield is removed.)
He's apparently good against most enemies, but succumbed to fire damage. He has invulnerability frames after damage, but as shown, despite seemingly being able to jump, he'll readily walk into burning grass, taking damage & knockback from the fire.
He is also purple in the 2nd phase. More evidence it's a fake? On defeat, he darkens & bursts into smoke, leaving behind only his sword.

Tri says about Swordfighter Form Zelda: "You look strong, like that guy who wears green." (Does Tri know Link? Tri spoke of him unfamiliarly before the fight, but this suggests Tri knows his appearance, & the Link that Zelda fought was a fake, seemingly.)

Mysterious Sword tutorial dialogue: "Raise your sword with UP to enter swordfighter form. Once transformed, you can attack with Y. While transformed, defend with your shield by pressing and holding ZL. You can also jump higher than normal in this form with B. Finally, hold down Y to charge your sword, then release it for a spin attack."

When Zelda collects "energy" in Swordfighter form, the following dialogue appears: "You got some energy! You feel a mysterious might growing within you."

Zeltik notes that he didn't find any energy in the overworld, but you can use Swordfighter mode there, just sparingly. It can be switched on & off quickly. (That'll be interesting if it ends up being useful for speedrun routing.)

Deku Baba description: "Aggressive and immobile, this plant reaches for anything that gets near. It is vulnerable to having its head pulled." (Lol, what counterproductively incompetent behaviour.)

Zeltik notes that although Echoes can be created before entering Swordfighter Form, the use of Echoes & Bind is locked while Swordfighter Form is active. Oof.

The boss is Seismic Talus, a legless rock monster that floats at ground level atop an orb near ground level that can be seized from it using Bind.

Tri: "My friends! They're in that creature... We've got to get them out of there. Come on- We can do this!"

Potential scaling point for Tri & friends, since they're presumably what's powering the bosses & can match Zelda?
(Though, the boss's forms & presumable Dark Magic may also contribute. It's unclear if Tri & friends can actually exert the energy they're useful for as power at this point, if you'll pardon my saying so.)

According to Zeltik, they're in the "glowing purple crystal that moves about its body". The orb I mentioned.

Zeltik beat it using pot throwing & Swordfighter form, rather than Bind.
(I wonder if the "Seismic" part of Seismic Talus's name will have any meaning? Earthquake feats or something, lol?)

Apparently, as of when Zeltik recorded the video, it's been a few days since playing the demo.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Really interested in the lore of the rifts and the still world. The fact that Tri mentions her friends normally fix them quickly implies that the rifts showing up were already a, maybe not common, but common enough thing in this era of Hyrule even before Ganon's trident opening up that first big rift from the inital trailer that they needed to be quickly fixed. Dunno what Ganon's connection to the still world can be if his magic is able to force open a rift to it when his trident strikes the ground, could be as simple as him having no connection he just has the range / means to get there, dimensional travel, bfr, making portals etc... have been a thing he's been able to do since ALTTP.

 

[Imaginym]

Really interested in the lore of the rifts and the still world. The fact that Tri mentions her friends normally fix them quickly implies that the rifts showing up were already a, maybe not common, but common enough thing in this era of Hyrule even before Ganon's trident opening up that first big rift from the inital trailer that they needed to be quickly fixed. Dunno what Ganon's connection to the still world can be if his magic is able to force open a rift to it when his trident strikes the ground, could be as simple as him having no connection he just has the range / means to get there, dimensional travel, bfr, making portals etc... have been a thing he's been able to do since ALTTP.

I'm wondering if it could be something like "Normally we close the rifts before they get too big, but Ganon has stolen the rift-making tool/power & misused it." &/or something about the balance of the forces of Creation/Destruction &/or Order/Chaos. (Or Dark/Light, if they wanna go the overused route.)

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

this will be the game that defeats final fantasy

 

[Sparkive]

this will be the game that defeats final fantasy

Probably No

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Probably No

That's the joke. But at least we'll get a Zelda that's beyond Building in the main timeline.



Before a certain Stand argues with me about this, I'm strict about what I classify as "on the timeline".

 

[Hypertornado099]

I think even Link should be below that but VSBW has standards

 

[Dust_Collector]

That's the joke. But at least we'll get a Zelda that's beyond Building in the main timeline.



Before a certain Stand argues with me about this, I'm strict about what I classify as "on the timeline".

So games like Ocarina of Time & Spirit Tracks aren't classified as on the timeline to you?

 

[Chariot190]

That's the joke. But at least we'll get a Zelda that's beyond Building in the main timeline.



Before a certain Stand argues with me about this, I'm strict about what I classify as "on the timeline".

I wasn't gonna say shit but Sheik, ST Zelda, most Zelda's also have tier 6 AP.

Edit:Nvm the frog said it already.

 

[Chariot190]

I think even Link should be below that but VSBW has standards

almost every Link has some sort of 8-C throwing feat alone tho....

 

[Nierre]

i love how passive aggressive he was, "before a certain Stand argues with me about this"... like hm, I wonder who he's talking about

 

[Dust_Collector]

The official timeline:

Minish Cap (Debatable, although she doesn't really use it Zelda's magic power is the Light Force which is what made Hyrules most notorious sex offender 6-C)

Four Swords (Debatable, Vaati initally hid from Zelda when he sensed her magic power only coming back to grab her when he saw she was underaged)

A Link to the Past (Debatable, Zelda's magic alongside the other maidens could destroy Ganons magical barrier, could be argued to be power null)

Link's Awakening

Oracles of Ages and Seasons

A Link Between Worlds (Debatable, Zelda did possess the Triforce of Wisdom which in this game can be argued to grant an actual tier 6 boost)

Tri Force Heroes

The Legend of Zelda

Adventure of Link

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I wasn't gonna say shit but Sheik, ST Zelda, most Zelda's also have tier 6 AP.

Edit:Nvm the frog said it already.

Sheik's greatest physical feat is not being killed by Bongo Bongo. The Phantoms are Tier 6, Ghost Zelda isn't.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Sheik's greatest physical feat is not being killed by Bongo Bongo. The Phantoms are Tier 6, Ghost Zelda isn't.

I mean Bongo Bongo is still tier 7 minium given he'd be superior to pre-triforce Crenando so surviving getting trashed about by him ain't half bad, and ghost Zelda isn't tier 6 you right. But when she gets in tune with her power she's physically strong enough to help Link kill Malladus.

 

[Imaginym]

Forgive me, please, but I didn't even know Sheik even canonically interacted with Bongo Bongo at all. I don't remember the dialogue well. What indicates it?

 

[Imaginym]

I mean Bongo Bongo is still tier 7 minium given he'd be superior to pre-triforce Crenando so surviving getting trashed about by him ain't half bad, and ghost Zelda isn't tier 6 you right. But when she gets in tune with her power she's physically strong enough to help Link kill Malladus.

So is Zelda (I presume the ST one.) in-tune with her power a separate key from "ghost Zelda"? & is ST Link not Tier 6? What is the gap?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Forgive me, please, but I didn't even know Sheik even canonically interacted with Bongo Bongo at all. I don't remember the dialogue well. What indicates it?

She straight up gets grabbed and ragdolled by Bongo Bongo in the same cutscene where he briefly knocks Link unconsious (And it's really funny because he's invisible so Sheik is just flailing around through the air)

 

[Imaginym]

She straight up gets grabbed and ragdolled by Bongo Bongo in the same cutscene where he briefly knocks Link unconsious (And it's really funny because he's invisible so Sheik is just flailing around through the air)

Ahhh. Hey, rewatching that cutscene, Sheik saying "This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time... Listen to this, the Nocturne of Shadow!!" is just flowery language &/or hyperbole, right?

Also, shoutouts to Link's skill, playing an Ocarina during the rain, lol.

 

[Imaginym]

Also, Bongo Bongo appears to be visible while moving in the cutscene. In the video, I watched, it resembled static.

Is that the shadow of Bongo Bongo? The raindrops on its physical form?