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Could be history or information manipulation
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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dalesean027
- Start date
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Why doesn’t the shopkeeper fight Ganondorf instead of Link?Wait. Are you saying that he doesn’t have Conceptual Manipulation for changing Link’s name to THEIF?
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I she/it you not, Marin with one of the 7 Instruments is roughly canon Ganondorf’s tier according to Hyrule Warriors
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What?
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You get it? She/it? Like, a girl and an item?
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That was awful. It still made me chuckle
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This is just a terrible joke that I can't help but laugh at it. Good job.
Dust_Collector
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Can't remember but do we treat Age of Calamity as canon, albeit an alt timeline, or as it's own thing? I know there's always been some contention on it's status as canon due to stuff that doesn't line up with what we get from BOTW (Like how Link gets the Master Sword years later than he did in BOTW, which wouldn't have been affected by the time travel stuff since Terrako arrived when Link was 16 to 17 and he was meant to have had the sword for years by that point).
Finishing up a Calamity Ganon profile and wasn't sure if I should keep the few extra abilities he got in the game and add in a key for his full powered state after he absorbed Astor.
Finishing up a Calamity Ganon profile and wasn't sure if I should keep the few extra abilities he got in the game and add in a key for his full powered state after he absorbed Astor.
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Don't take my word for it, but I was under the impression it was a different timeline.
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We use a FTL feat from it so probably?
Probably falls into that weird category of "usable as support but not as a basis" and "canon, but butterfly effect shit so whatever", which it's Zelda we get time line shit like every other tuesday.
Prob dont matter much anyway. AoC Link > BoTW Link. And ToTK Link > AoC Link. No real scaling going on, and the only dudes who could get something going, that being the future sages or champions don't actually fight anything worth a damn (with evidence they did anything of value) that'd lead to an upgrade.
Like ig the sages fought the blights pre-time skip, but they did it with the champions, and this wouldn't even upgrade them given the blights like 7-C. Probably only really useful for abilities for Ganon and the lads, given they use what they have in slightly more versatile ways.
Probably falls into that weird category of "usable as support but not as a basis" and "canon, but butterfly effect shit so whatever", which it's Zelda we get time line shit like every other tuesday.
Prob dont matter much anyway. AoC Link > BoTW Link. And ToTK Link > AoC Link. No real scaling going on, and the only dudes who could get something going, that being the future sages or champions don't actually fight anything worth a damn (with evidence they did anything of value) that'd lead to an upgrade.
Like ig the sages fought the blights pre-time skip, but they did it with the champions, and this wouldn't even upgrade them given the blights like 7-C. Probably only really useful for abilities for Ganon and the lads, given they use what they have in slightly more versatile ways.
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We treat it as a different timeline. We use one-way scaling, meaning we use BotW feats for AoC but we don’t use AoC feats for ToTK or usually BotW.
Could it have its own profile like HW Ganondorf?
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No we don't?
AOC)
vsbattles.fandom.com
If we ditch it, it'd be ditched both ways.
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Bro does NOT know what one-way meansNo we don't?
Literally where Botw Link gets his FTL.AOC)
If we ditch it, it'd be ditched both ways.
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I do. I'm saying we not only don't currently treat it as one-way, as Botw Link uses a feat from that on his profile, but if we decided not to scale, it'd go both ways. Kinda like Toei DBZ and manga DBZ.
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For the same reason why AoC would scale to BoTW
You don't think Link scales to Zelda or Ganon?
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AoC characters are like >>>>>>>>>>>>> BotW. Like, there’s a Guardian capable of stomping Calamity GanonFor the same reason why AoC would scale to BoTW
No, but OT Ganondorf would flick CoH Link.
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Except the game would have you believe that Sidon, Yunobo, Riju, Teba, burd, Mipha, Daruk and Urbosa are just the same as how they were at those specific points in time, and that'd be, because they are.
They get no power amp, they get no lore. They're treated identically, they were even losing to the blights as per the original timeline until the future sages came in, and that's without getting into Zelda or the divine beasts, the latter of which speaks for itself.
As it stands "characters" is only like, two dudes. With actual lore for being different, that'd be Link, who is > BoTW, and Calamity Ganon, who is also > Botw.
That doesn't apply to the whole cast, pretty explicitly actually, as such, if any scaling is being done between them, based on throughlines, with the exception of Link and Ganon exclusive stuff, it would apply between both timelines given 99% of the relevant shit, also scales to the goons.
If, we ditch scaling, it'd go both ways, as we'd be assuming they differ in strength, and if they differ, who's to say they're stronger? They could be weaker, we don't know, the moment it becomes invalid one way, it becomes invalid both ways given they don't go "oh man urbosa in AoC is actually >>>>>> BoTW", we'd just be assuming they are different, and if they're different, who's to say what else isn't? The timeline already splits a bit like with Link getting the MS, so who's to say the good BoTW feats happened in this version for it to scale to them? That's the issue with shit like this, either we do, or don't, we can't cherry pick.
Also dog, ya REALLY gotta stop with using free mode or adventure mode shit, the battle-tested guardian never canonically fights Calamity Ganon.
That one ain't even canon even as a alt timeline
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The game makes it so ******* obvious that they’re all stronger than how they were in BotW. Like any character, from the fact they can solo or especially tank even a base Guardian, means they’re massively stronger than their BotW selves. Simply by Zelda having all the Runes or using the Light Bow herself means she’s much stronger than BotW. Those Champions still “losing to the Blights” were saved by people who they pretty much should’ve been able to oneshot in BotW, much less them actually damaging the Blights, and this was at the very start of the game; they eventually got stronger too. They can injure enemies who can TANK HITS FROM DIVINE BEASTS. I don’t wanna say they made it obvious…
I didn’t, also hyperbole.
No.That one ain't even canon even as a alt timeline
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The game as a whole is definitely more action-oriented, but, literally nothing in it ultimately beats out what we see in botw in terms of actual quantifiable values.
Which begs the question, how does the game make it obvious? It cant be by actually having better feats, and the two that were stronger, was stated to be so?
Did you forget BotW Link literally killed like a hundred? In Botw itself? In fact him wiping out an armada for a full day straight is what lead to his initial death? Not even AoC Link fights like a 100 at once. Hell we're told in Botw Link can even deflect their attacks with a potlid
Guardians are indeed quite strong, but they aren't invincible, multiple characters have taken them out in Botw, even King Dorephan, his scar is from that event actually. Which basically tells me what I already knew, they're the exact same when you look past the action.
Fact of that matter is, Yunobo isn't secretly 10000x stronger in AoC, and Mipha isn't either. The intent is "hey look it's them" not "hey looks it's them but a million times stronger even though nothing actually says as much". The champions especially, they adhere to everything we know about them in Botw.
Runes doesn't effect stats or her innate qualities, like, at all. Why is a bomb rune making her more durable or quicker? That's rhetorical, it doesn't.
And the Light Bow, is something she literally made in Botw, so again, no.
Based on what? Sidon is Sidon. Yunobo is a Goron so bro is like High 8-C by default, not only that, but he tanks bombs, canonically, and takes zero damage, among other shit, even in botw he's beefed up. Teba is comparable to Revali and wasn't instantly ******* obliterated by a Divine Beast's attack, instead only having his leg burned which he just kinda went home and was fine by the time Link was done ceaning up, so that alone already proves my point and you are objectively wrong, only Riju is iffy, except not really, she has no feats for, or against, this. She just kinda exists in botw.
So how, exactly, are you 100% certain they'd be ohko'd by a Blight? When two and half already have feats or statements showing that wouldn't be the case?
Fire Blight can be damaged by remote bombs lad, it's one of the two intended ways to beat it.
The blights aren't actually that strong, they're just sheikah tech mixmashed with malice. You're acting like they're final boss lv.
over half way, isn't the very start.
No, they didn't, you really need to stop treating RPG mechanics, freemode, and all this other stuff as canon. It isn't without direct evidence, they, in the actual story, didn't have even a moment to waste. Zero statements, showings, or anything, saying they secretly got a huge buff randomly while walking.
Unless they actually say "hey we got stronger" in story, we dont accept that.
Teba literally takes a hit from a Divine Beast.
You realize tho if they do differ, see above, scaling off Botw wouldn't work as one discrepancy
It isn't botw that'd be downgraded if that's what you'd think, botw really doesn't need it, ironically, it'd be aoc that'd be taking a nerf.
"i was pretending".
That also isn't what hyperbole means.
Proof? That's like saying Smash is canon. CoH is a Crypt game first and foremost anyway.
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By having the characters scale higher than canon.
You’re right, but he does fight Guardians capable of stomping ones from normal BotW and so is every other character. And that’s just from the fact he can use Shield Bash. King Dorephan has a scar?Did you forget BotW Link literally killed like a hundred? In Botw itself? In fact him wiping out an armada for a full day straight is what lead to his initial death? Not even AoC Link fights like a 100 at once. Hell we're told in Botw Link can even deflect their attacks with a potlid
Guardians are indeed quite strong, but they aren't invincible, multiple characters have taken them out in Botw, even King Dorephan, his scar is from that event actually. Which basically tells me what I already knew, they're the exact same when you look past the action.
Daruk could probably oneshot Yunobo in BotW without Daruk’s Protection. In AoC, he was injuring Fireblight Ganon. Same same with the others.
BotW Zelda is weaker physically than a Remote Bomb. Except that sealing shit she asspulled at the end. Yes, and she only gets to use it in AoC.
All of that is massively weaker than Blights. Even Teba was hit by some random “pew pew” attack, not what he makes when he fires his lazer at Calamity Ganon.
From the fact that the Champions themselves got clapped by the Blights in seconds.
Calamity Ganon can be hurt with a stick.
No I’m not; all of the entire cast but Link would get flicked by Blights outside AoC. Also Zelda dissipates 3 Blights with her powers in the game when they’d kill her by practically touching her in BotW.
…You mean the Champions aren’t even playable until the game’s practically almost over?
How do you think ANYONE, EVER gets stronger in a Hyrule/Dynasty Warriors game? How do you think Hyrule Warriors Link went from almost being moolested by Cia to stomping and practically tearing limbs off of a Hyrule Warriors Ganon with the full Triforce?
You know what I mean.
“Erm AoC would actually get weaker”
Yes it is.
Did you not play the doggone game? She was sent into the Zelda dimension.
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Based on what feats?
Sages dont have any actual anti-feats, beyond the implication of being weaker, which we already knew and that applies in AoC as well, and the champs, are effectively identical, hell most of the feats were mentioned in lore text from botw even.
Yeah? AoC Guardians aren't special with two exceptions, of which Link doesnt fight the former, and the latter, would just arbitrarily upscale off.
Yeah, and? Link in botw is strong enough to deflect a guardian's best attack, with a pot lid.
Ya know a shield bash is just him swinging his arm yes?
Dude it takes up half his head, the giant cross mark is a scar from fighting a guardian
Based on what? Yunobo is shown time and time again to facetank high-end shit in botw, he's also goron so like, no, by default. Daruk is definitely stronger, but ya acting like he's 100x stronger as opposed to it being like low and high end weight class gap.
Yes, and? Where's the anti-feats? Yeah we know they did, now where exactly in botw are they said incapable of doing that?
Youre conflating weaker than, to be incapable of doing anything, which, ironically, is still the case in AoC. They need to tag team the blights, and almost died solo, which aligns with botw. Honestly, I'm surprised they kept it as accurate as they did, I'd assume they just wouldn't give a shit like with og HW, yet nah they did, probably because AoC is intended to be a tie-in game.
Based on what? She has 7-B magic in botw. Sealing? Dog, that wasn't exactly sealing.
Yeah, and? This doesn't effect her speed, it just gives her a tool. It doesn't make her stronger, more durable, anything.
No, it isn't, do you even know where blights scale? They just upscale a bit off botw's mid end feats.
The same pew pew attack that eclipses a guardian's beam attack and can obliterate hordes of enemies and stomp miniboss enemies, hell that very beam attack nukes enemies in AoC.
Man, like nothing tanks an attack equivalent to the fully charged beam attack.
No? The way the fights played out in AoC, played out the same way they did in Botw, the only change being instead of dying they were saved by the future sages. In what world did you get they were stomped in seconds, Revali's lore even makes it pretty blatant he held on for awhile.
Stop making shit up dude.
Yes, except actual intended method to beat them =/= mop.
The way you beat Fireblight is by throwing bombs when he does the succ attack. This is an actual, intended, non gameplay mechanics thing.
The champions fought them even in Botw
2.5 of the sages have dura feats that would enable tanking at least some hits
What are you on about?
Zelda in botw literally in an equivalent scene kills like 80 guardians, and without getting any stronger, given we're told she immediately heads to hyrule, seals calamity ganon, and next thing she does after her power wanes, is make a 7-B lightbow, and then obliterate the calamity in a dbz ass blast.
Her killing blights, is not only not beyond botw zelda, it's actually kinda fodder.
Was talking about the sages, and same applies to them.
PIS? Pretty ******* blatantly actually, that Ganon fight is one of the dumbest cases of PIS in gaming. Hell why'd Ganon even want the triforce, he mutilated Cia while she had it while in base lmao.
Though, that's blatantly not what happened. Link didn't stomp Ganon, nothing implies that, secondly, it was him with a magic sword that acts as kryptonite to Ganon regardless of stats, Zelda who has similar shit, and the aforementioned time wizard.
Idk why you're inflating what actually went down.
Even then, that Link actually had a few jumps like via the MS. AoC Link's only actual jump, is the MS too, and the rest don't even have one, excuding Ganon, he actually has a substantial one
I do, and it isn't enough.
It would yes, the best feat in the game only like 8-A from a divine beast.
"exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally."
Saying "hey it can stomp calamity ganon", as a point, isn't hyperbole, it's being deliberately obtuse.
Yeah and in smash they go to the zelda dimension too, or hell 2B in SoulCal, or that one indie fighter with shovel knight.
Simply having a premise that explains why it's zelda themed, doesnt make it canon.
Dust_Collector
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Ok so here's Calamity Nando so far, still need to add a few more scans and then slap in the missing ratings for intelligence, range, etc... which I've got saved on a doc just need to paste it in at some point when I'm able to.
Dust_Collector
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Yeah
Dust_Collector
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If you're into other dynasty warrior games then yeah I'd say it's worth buying, surprisingly has a lot of content for what it is (Not as much as the first Hyrule Warriors but that's a massive fan service game that covered pretty much the entire franchise up to that point while this is a tie in for just Breath of the Wild). Story can be hit or miss at times, but overall I thought it was pretty good.
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Put the last one first so they don’t confuse it with the other one.
Dust_Collector
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Does gloom sword or gloom club have funny hax, i forgor...
Dust_Collector
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Only funny hax they have is the standard gloom affliction, only the spear gets extra cool stuff like soul stealing
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K
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The original Hyrule Warriors was a blast, and I'm not even that into Musou games. I still have to try Age of Calamity but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that it didn't actually portray the failed battle against Calamity Ganon, that would have been pretty ballsy.
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Age of Calamity should be canon, its just a parallel timeline. It would be like Future Trunks' timeline compared to the normal DBZ timeline
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Basically my thoughts on it tbh, Trunks included.
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ayo wtf i mightve just got a FTL feat for totk by complete accident
Dust_Collector
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Yoo pretty hype if it is FTL
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What is it?
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I just flipped right as a sol thing went off, and the shit was slow mo'd. Was an accident, didn't think ya could even flurry that given it's nigh hitscan out of slow mo.
Not gonna promise anything, but i will attempt to cook after checking it a few more times.
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