Kirito vs Sonic: Rematch... Again

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

BR doesn’t have any real scaling chain as it temporarily holds AH (not even sure it successfully froze AH since I’ve only seen the anime for Alicization) which so Sonic would suffer the same but break out faster with his lifting.

He completely froze the Abyssal Horror:

“Release recollection!!”

Blinding light burned the imagepanel stark white.

When the image immediately returned, at its center it was
possible to see several streaks of bluish-white light shooting from
the blade raised by the swordsman and rocketing towards the
Abyssal Horror.

Those lights were as thin as fibers compared to the space beast’s
gargantuan form, but when they struck and wrapped around it,
the beast’s speed of assault became visibly attenuated. The frantic
motions of its freely wriggling 12 tentacles became stiff. Almost as
if they had frozen.

But that was impossible. The Abyssal Horror was a creature
acclimated to the extremely cold environment of space. It was
impossible to create a chill colder than the temperature of space.

Steeka’s stupefaction was immediately blown away by Laura’nei’s
murmuring in her ear.

“That’s… That’s the «Armament Full Control Art»… No, the «Memory
Release Art»…?”

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Blue streak speeds by FRA

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Do you have the follow up paragraphs? Because that says it stiffened as if it had frozen and then states that it being frozen is an impossibility twice. Considering the fact that AH proceeds to attack Kirito anyway means that it wasn’t actually frozen but temporarily pinned by the ice. If it resisted the cold, it wouldn’t have been frozen.

From the previous posts of other users, it seems that Sonic is able to break out of ice that can freeze him despite resisting the cold of space so he would be able to do the exact same here.

 

[Lou_change]

Also, breaking out of ice would be Striking Strength IIRC

No actually we consider it the same as breaking free of being grabbed. To go even further sonic has been frozen solid and just broken out in base and his resistance is likely far stronger in super.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Do you have the follow up paragraphs? Because that says it stiffened as if it had frozen and then states that it being frozen is an impossibility twice. Considering the fact that AH proceeds to attack Kirito anyway means that it wasn’t actually frozen but temporarily pinned by the ice. If it resisted the cold, it wouldn’t have been frozen.

“What?… Only highest-level Machinists can use that!”

“But… that technique just…”

Their hesitant conversation was interrupted by a third roar from
the space beast.

O… OOOOOOORRRRRRR!!

All of a sudden, the enormous trapped body trembled and three
new tentacles erupted from it. They formed giant jet-black spears
and lunged towards the mysterious swordsman.

It took The Abyssal Horror multiple tries to finally break from being frozen

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

No actually we consider it the same as breaking free of being grabbed. To go even further sonic has been frozen solid and just broken out in base and his resistance is likely far stronger in super.

Interesting. OK. I'm asking if Sonic can resist freeze that is basically just a very few temperatures away from Absolute Zero.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It took The Abyssal Horror multiple tries to finally break from being frozen

That says it’s body was trapped and that more tentacles burst forth to break out. This means that either only the outer layer was frozen or it was just frozen over with ice, not that it was actually frozen solid or else more tentacles wouldn’t be able to be spawned. Either one means that Sonic isn’t going to actually be frozen solid by BR and he will still break out.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

That says it’s body was trapped and that more tentacles burst forth to break out. This means that either only the outer layer was frozen or it was just frozen over with ice, not that it was actually frozen solid or else more tentacles wouldn’t be able to be spawned. Either one means that Sonic isn’t going to actually be frozen solid by BR and he will still break out.

Yes, that might be true, but this is the key paragraph:

But that was impossible. The Abyssal Horror was a creature
acclimated to the extremely cold environment of space. It was
impossible to create a chill colder than the temperature of space.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Can't sonic just protect himself with forefields? '' Forcefield Creation (With the Insta-Shield. Can also generate Fire and Electricity based force-fields or purple pulses around his entire body to protect him from incoming attacks via Sonic Guard)''

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yes. It says they stiffened “as if” frozen before saying colder than space is impossible twice.

 

[Lou_change]

Interesting. OK. I'm asking if Sonic can resist freeze that is basically just a very few temperatures away from Absolute Zero.

If I am not mistaken sonic's feat is Kirito's feat but better.

Space->sonic's resistance
something that froze him solid didn't effect him much and that is in base.

 

[Smashtwig]

In fact, yeah, that makes sense

AH survived temperatures of space, that's the reasoning for it breaking free, not AP or anything. Sonic survives space. Sonic is comparable to Abyssal Horror, thus he can break free

I really don't think there's much room for argument on this topic.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Yes. It says they stiffened “as if” frozen before saying colder than space is impossible twice.

Meaning Sonic will easily break out of Kirito's freeze that is just a very few temperatures off from Absolute Zero?

 

[Smashtwig]

Y e s

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Y e s

I can honestly argue that the Abyssal Horror did not just survive in space cuz' the space creature was acclimated to the extremely cold temperature of space ,but oh well

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Meaning Sonic will easily break out of Kirito's freeze that is just a very few temperatures off from Absolute Zero?

Yes. The few degrees off of AZ is the outer space that Sonic already resists.

 

[Lou_change]

Please respond to my comment

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Please respond to my comment

OK

If I am not mistaken sonic's feat is Kirito's feat but better.

Space->sonic's resistance
something that froze him solid didn't effect him much and that is in base.

Yes. Sonic is like Kirito. I can see where you are going with this, but Kirito froze a creature who was acclimated (meaning to adapt a new temperature, in this case, colder) to the extreme cold environment of space. If Sonic can resist a freeze that is way colder than the acclimated to the extremely cold environment of space, Sonic wins... If not, Kirito freezes Sonic... :/

 

[Lou_change]

The point of it was sonic can easily break out of ice that froze him solid unharmed that is a resistance feat which is quite a bit above space cold.

 

[Smashtwig]

C'man maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, you can't just be stepping lower and lower until you find somethin' so specific to hold on to. This is what we call confirmation bias and belief persistence in psychology. The former is the tendency to ignore evidence that does not support your belief, and pay attention to evidence that does support your belief, sometimes bloating it up a bit. The latter is also the natural tendency to still have believe despite being clear evidence that your point don't work. They're both natural but man we gotta try and be more open minded to the idea that he can break out of the ice.

 

[Lou_change]

He can also teleport out.

 

[JED]

You do realize that base Sonic can stay in space for as long as he wants with literally no negative side effects. He doesn’t even need to be Super. So yes, Sonic is just as “acclimated” the the freezing temperature of space as the Abyssal Horror.
And the fact that it was previously mentioned (to which you already admitted), the AH wasn’t even frozen solid, only stiffened. If that’s the case, Super Sonic with his vastly superior lifting strength (not to mention he can passively amplify his power a lot with light and Chaos Energy), would easily break out

 

[Smashtwig]

15-16 for sonic btw

 

[JED]

And again, this is me granting you that it would even hit Sonic, which it won’t. Because as previously mentioned, it is not in character for Sonic to stand there while an opponent he doesn’t know shouts out an attack and try to tank it. He is always on the move, and especially with an opponent using an attack he is unfamiliar with, would use CC to teleport away from it.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

15-16 for sonic btw

Thx for the number. I lost count.,

And again, this is me granting you that it would even hit Sonic, which it won’t. Because as previously mentioned, it is not in character for Sonic to stand there while an opponent he doesn’t know shouts out an attack and try to tank it. He is always on the move, and especially with an opponent using an attack he is unfamiliar with, would use CC to teleport away from it.

OK. Sonic wins.

 

[Zencha9]

Finally

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

15-16 for sonic btw

Dear lord, this is Weiss vs Polernerf now!

 

[Ionliosite]

Even if you want to argue the freeze would work (which why would Sonic stand there while an opponent he doesn't know charges up an attack is beyond me, especially when Sonic never stands still in combat), since everyone agrees Sonic has a massive AP advantage, he would be able to break out of it, as PoH was able to do so (at the time he was much stronger than Kirito as well), not to mention Sonic can break out of ice with subzero temperatures anyways.

You know Sonic won't be able to move out of range since Kirito's ice is instantaneous once he says it's name right? And Kirito just needs to say Release Recollection and Sonic is frozen. For your information, and for the information of anyone here, being able to rbeak oiut of ice is not related to AP, it is related to lifting strenght, which Sonic is inferior unless he is in Super Sonic (spoiler: we aren't using Super Sonic). You don't have any proof that the ice Sonic resisted is "subzero", there isn't a single mention of it in the profile (aside form him being able to break out of ice) but that doesn't make it "subzero", so this is plain invalid unless you bring proof of it.

Even with the Probability Manipulation, the thing is, it always only activated under a very specific circumstance. The only real example it has been shown but Kirito is by Eugeo coming to his aid against PoH (who was legit about to kill Kirito at that point, and there was nothing Kirito could have done about it), that only happened because Ronie begged him too. And all Eugeo did was give Kirito his amp (with which, as previously mentioned, still only barely defeated PoH). And then against Subtlizer, Kirito was only able to neutralize him because Miller's greatest fear is the light of the human heart, as he is pure evil. Sonic is a pure hearted person, and gets empowered by the idea of friendship too (and Super Sonic absorbs light anyways).

Except that EoA Kirito can use Incarnation at will, so no, it isn't activated "under very specific circumstance" here.Sonic being a pure hearted person has nothing to do with the match, so I don't know why you mention it.

Meanwhile, while Sonic normally likes to start out his fights by blitzing his opponents in H2H. But he is not stupid, and when he sees his opponents charging up a special attack (in this case, Kirito's release recollection), he is going to get out of their instantly. After the attack is finished, he would likely try to attack Kirito head on, and we all agree he has the AP advantage to knock him out. However, if he sees that his physical attacks are not putting him down, Sonic has no problem resorting to his hax, such as Chaos Control, which Kirito has no counter to. As shown during the second Shadow fight in SA2, if Sonic has a Chaos Emerald handy, he has no problem using Chaos Control during combat if his opponent has abilities he is not prepared for. Sonic could easily use this to teleport completely out of the range of his release recollection, and damage him to the point of being incapacited for a long time (his immortality doesn't mean he cannot be knocked out), or, the most likely scenario, BFR/seal him to a place where he will no longer be a threat (as shown at the end of SA2).

Ok, since Sonic starts with H2H Kirito just freezes, Sonic can't break out of it since his lifting strenght is not superior to Kirito's and that's whithout taking into account Release Recollection can absorb his life force putting him in a similar state to a coma, something Sonic doesn't resists, so Sonic won't be able to use his hax. Sonic won't know about what Release Recollection does nor what it is its range, so why would he teleport out og its range? Not that it really matters, since, as I already stated, Sonic can't get out of the ice unless he is Super Sonic, which isnt the one that is being used.

 

[Ionliosite]

You do realize that base Sonic can stay in space for as long as he wants with literally no negative side effects. He doesn’t even need to be Super. So yes, Sonic is just as “acclimated” the the freezing temperature of space as the Abyssal Horror.

And this doesn't mean anything since Kirito can freeze people like that, or no one remembers that Kirito freezed Abyssal Horror?

And the fact that it was previously mentioned (to which you already admitted), the AH wasn’t even frozen solid, only stiffened. If that’s the case, Super Sonic with his vastly superior lifting strength (not to mention he can passively amplify his power a lot with light and Chaos Energy), would easily break out

Super Sonic isn't even the one being used, so this point is moot.

 

[Ionliosite]

And again, this is me granting you that it would even hit Sonic, which it won’t. Because as previously mentioned, it is not in character for Sonic to stand there while an opponent he doesn’t know shouts out an attack and try to tank it. He is always on the move, and especially with an opponent using an attack he is unfamiliar with, would use CC to teleport away from it.

I think I already addressed this on my first post, but here I go again, You know Sonic won't be able to move out of range since Kirito's ice is instantaneous once he says it's name right? And Kirito just needs to say Release Recollection and Sonic is frozen. Sonic won't know about what Release Recollection does nor what it is its range, so why would he teleport out of its range? He is literally facing someone that is just saying a couple of words.

 

[JED]

You know Sonic won't be able to move out of range since Kirito's ice is instantaneous once he says it's name right? And Kirito just needs to say Release Recollection and Sonic is frozen. For your information, and for the information of anyone here, being able to rbeak oiut of ice is not related to AP, it is related to lifting strenght, which Sonic is inferior unless he is in Super Sonic (spoiler: we aren't using Super Sonic). You don't have any proof that the ice Sonic resisted is "subzero", there isn't a single mention of it in the profile (aside form him being able to break out of ice) but that doesn't make it "subzero", so this is plain invalid unless you bring proof of it.

Except that EoA Kirito can use Incarnation at will, so no, it isn't activated "under very specific circumstance" here.Sonic being a pure hearted person has nothing to do with the match, so I don't know why you mention it.

Ok, since Sonic starts with H2H Kirito just freezes, Sonic can't break out of it since his lifting strenght is not superior to Kirito's and that's whithout taking into account Release Recollection can absorb his life force putting him in a similar state to a coma, something Sonic doesn't resists, so Sonic won't be able to use his hax. Sonic won't know about what Release Recollection does nor what it is its range, so why would he teleport out og its range? Not that it really matters, since, as I already stated, Sonic can't get out of the ice unless he is Super Sonic, which isnt the one that is being used.

Please read the thread before replying. We ARE USING SUPER SONIC! It literally says so on the first page this is Super Sonic. If it wasn’t Super Sonic, it couldn’t be a match because he doesn’t have another 4-A key. Not to mention the start of the thread says it is Super Sonic. So yes, Sonic’s lifting strength is superior.

 

[JED]

You really haven’t read the thread, Because the AH point has been brought up multiple times. He did not freeze the AH solid, as it was still moving and even managed to break free. It only stiffened. Meanwhile, Sonic, who also survives in the vacuum of space just like the AH, not only can break free of being frozen solid in his base, the fact that his lifting strength is that much higher, coupled with not even being completely frozen solid, can break out. Everything you brought up were points addressed in the thread already.

 

[Ionliosite]

Please read the thread before replying. We ARE USING SUPER SONIC! It literally says so on the first page this is Super Sonic. If it wasn’t Super Sonic, it couldn’t be a match because he doesn’t have another 4-A key. Not to mention the start of the thread says it is Super Sonic. So yes, Sonic’s lifting strength is superior.

Oh, ok. 4-A Super Sonic doesn't have Immeasurable LS, his Immeasurable LS is based on his 2-C part of the key since it is based on Soalris, so it shouldn't even count, so this Sonic only has Pre-Stellar, which is inferior to Kirito.

 

[Zencha9]

Yeah... How the **** did i not notice that

 

[JED]

Yeah, you clearly didn’t read the thread. This point was literally brought up earlier.

It actually isn’t. The multi stellar is and always has been specifically for NSS dragging stars. It never scales to other items and NSS is even a higher priority than BR so you can’t even scale the ice that way. Let’s not forget that the Release Recollection of both were used on AH and NSS actually did damage while BR barely held it for a few secs. Sonic himself actually has pre stellar lifting while Kirito is superhuman.

Such is the way of life.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Yeah, you clearly didn’t read the thread. This point was literally brought up earlier.

Which is what Kirito is using

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, you clearly didn’t read the thread. This point was literally brought up earlier.
It actually isn’t. The multi stellar is and always has been specifically for NSS dragging stars. It never scales to other items and NSS is even a higher priority than BR so you can’t even scale the ice that way. Let’s not forget that the Release Recollection of both were used on AH and NSS actually did damage while BR barely held it for a few secs. Sonic himself actually has pre stellar lifting while Kirito is superhuman.

And what do you think Kirito is using? The NSS. Also, Kirito 4-A has only Multi-stellar LS.

You really haven’t read the thread, Because the AH point has been brought up multiple times. He did not freeze the AH solid, as it was still moving and even managed to break free. It only stiffened. Meanwhile, Sonic, who also survives in the vacuum of space just like the AH, not only can break free of being frozen solid in his base, the fact that his lifting strength is that much higher, coupled with not even being completely frozen solid, can break out. Everything you brought up were points addressed in the thread already.

Again, Sonic has the same level of resistance, Kirito was still able to freeze him. And now that I check the profile correctly, no, Sonic doesn't have higher LS unless we are using his 2-C part of the key, so, not that it matters.

 

[JED]

And what do you think Kirito is using? The NSS. Also, Kirito 4-A has only Multi-stellar LS.


Again, Sonic has the same level of resistance, Kirito was still able to freeze him. And now that I check the profile correctly, no, Sonic doesn't have higher LS unless we are using his 2-C part of the key, so, not that it matters.

The NSS is not what he uses to freeze; that is Blue Rose. The Multi-Stellar only comes from
NSS’s release recollection, which BR (not does Kirito’s physical strength) does not scale too, as previously mentioned. And no he did not freeze AH. He only stiffened him momentarily and he broke out. It even said in the novel it was impossible to freeze AH twice. If anything, he momentarily pinned it down. So, Sonic, under the same conditions, would be able to do the same thing

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

The NSS is not what he uses to freeze; that is Blue Rose. The Multi-Stellar only comes from
NSS’s release recollection, which BR (not does Kirito’s physical strength) does not scale too, as previously mentioned.

Coming to think of it, how does the Blue Rose Sword not scale? It's literally one of Kirito's swords.

And no he did not freeze AH. He only stiffened him momentarily and he broke out. It even said in the novel it was impossible to freeze AH twice. If anything, he momentarily pinned it down. So, Sonic, under the same conditions, would be able to do the same thing

What was actually said is that it was impossible to create a chill colder than the temperature of the space, not that the Abyssal Horror can't be frozen twice

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Sonic can literally no-sell freezing at these tempreatures in his base form, and as Super Sonic it's vastly superior than before

Also, how does freezing has anything to do with LS? Like at all? It's not like Kirito physically holds Sonic in place with his ice or something. He just freezes him, which won't work because Sonic can easily break out from being frozen even in his base form

And why this is an argument when Sonic can just no-sell it? Especially as Super Sonic