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Kirito vs Sonic: Rematch... Again

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Except for age manipulation, does Kirito have anything else that will incap or "kill" Sonic?
 
Confluctor said:
Except for age manipulation, does Kirito have anything else that will incap or "kill" Sonic?
Click to expand...
He has transmutation which turns the opponent into a tree but needs direct contact. I might be forgetting some other had that might work on Sonic as of right now. :/
 
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
By incapping, you mean disabling Kirito? Right? If this is the case, Kirito can still fight as long as he believes in himself and can still fight as no matter how much body parts you cut him into.
Click to expand...
Kirito isn't escaping a 2-C BFR, and can't escape sealing either as he doesn't resist it.

Sonic may also use the wisps, which are very in character for him to used and has in fact used them in all games since Sonic Colors

Alternatively, he may turn Kirito into a ring with Ring Time and absorb him
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Kirito isn't escaping a 2-C BFR, and can't escape sealing either as he doesn't resist it.

Sonic may also use the wisps, which are very in character for him to used and has in fact used them in all games since Sonic Colors

Alternatively, he may turn Kirito into a ring with Ring Time and absorb him
Click to expand...
Does he start with that tho?
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
Well, either ways, I think this might be incon since it looks like none of their hax starts that can lead to their victory
Click to expand...
 
Confluctor said:
Far from it. If anything, it's leaning in Sonic's favour.
Click to expand...
Just like Zencha9 said, both of them doesn’t start with their hax which leads them to victory, but Kirito has Probability Manipulation which could help him. And later he later said that this is to be incon.
 
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
Just like Zencha9 said, both of them doesn’t start with their hax which leads them to victory, but Kirito has Probability Manipulation which could help him. And later he later said that this is to be incon.
Click to expand...
And his argument got refuted when he admitted it comes from his reality warping, which Sonic resists on a Low 2-C scale

Also, the description for probability manip is pretty vauge and doesn't explain much about how Kirito can win with it
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
And his argument got refuted when he admitted it comes from his reality warping, which Sonic resists on a Low 2-C scale
Click to expand...
I just checked his comments, and I don’t see him refuting anything from Reality Warping.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Also, the description for probability manip is pretty vauge and doesn't explain much about how Kirito can win with it
Click to expand...
Honestly, Zencha9 is a better debater then I am. Basically, Kirito’s Probability Manipulation works in a nutshell works like this: If an Incarnation user, Kirito in this case, believes that he is weaker than the other Incarnation user, he would overcome the opponent’s strength and gives him the upper hand. Also, Sonic doesn’t have Incarnation meaning Probability Manipulation would work in this fight.
 
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
I just checked his comments, and I don’t see him refuting anything from Reality Warping.

Honestly, Zencha9 is a better debater then I am. Basically, Kirito’s Probability Manipulation works in a nutshell works like this: If an Incarnation user, Kirito in this case, believes that he is weaker than the other Incarnation user, he would overcome the opponent’s strength and gives him the upper hand. Also, Sonic doesn’t have Incarnation meaning Probability Manipulation would work in this fight.
Click to expand...
didnt u said that incarnation only works in incarnation users?
 
How?
I leave the thread just for a little bit and this much misinformation is being spread
1-kirito's probability manip does not come from reality warping how many times do i need to say this it probability and reality warping come from incarnation not the other way around

(im taking the word of the guy who's knowledgeable in sonic unless evidence is given regarding sonic always haxxing as his first move)

2- So as of right now sonic will probably amp him self and go into mele if kirito does anything dangerous then sonic will hax him which is why i said It's a 50 / 50
I would say that kirito is more likely to win like maybe 6 out of 10 due to probability but it is very minor and not 100% guaranteed who will hax the other first that's why i said incon
 
Last edited:
From Kirito's ******* page: Passive Reality Warping (via Incarnation. As with all VR avatars, especially in the Underworld, Incarnation grants all the ability to alter reality via their conscious and subconscious belief and willpower, and can be described as many people sharing a single dream, with greater control of Incarnation being likened to "lucid dreaming"). The primary applications of Incarnation are as follows: Empowerment, Statistics Amplification and Statistics Reduction (Belief in one's own strength will amplify one's own power, however the opposite can happen to the user as well if they are not confident in a matchup), Limited Law Manipulation (If enough people believe that something cannot happen, it will become impossible and vice versa), and Probability Manipulation (If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)

What the page tells us is that Incarnation is reality warping and thru said reality warping they can alter probability.
 
As someone who follows both Sonic and SAO, this seems like my cup of tea. The only time Kirito has ever used Age Manipulation was not even in a combat scenario; he realized that Alice's dragons were going to be murdered, which would have devastated her, and the only way he could prevent that was by turning them into eggs. Even when he was on the ropes against Subtlizer, he did not even think of using this ability. So even if it is combat applicable, he does not use it in combat at all.

As for transmutation, again, he has only been shown to use this once, and this was at the end of a fight after he had just defeated PoH (which he needed a major amp of 20,000+ players and his God mode to do so and still only barely won but that's besides the point). He defeated PoH and it was only after PoH had threatened to log back in and continue to hunt down him and Asuna did Kirito decide that he needed to trap PoH for good, so he turned him into a tree so PoH would be trapped. So he only has shown to do this at the end of a fight against his serial killer archenemy threatening to slit his girlfriend's throat. So this also is not in character for him to do.

Even if you want to argue the freeze would work (which why would Sonic stand there while an opponent he doesn't know charges up an attack is beyond me, especially when Sonic never stands still in combat), since everyone agrees Sonic has a massive AP advantage, he would be able to break out of it, as PoH was able to do so (at the time he was much stronger than Kirito as well), not to mention Sonic can break out of ice with subzero temperatures anyways.

Even with the Probability Manipulation, the thing is, it always only activated under a very specific circumstance. The only real example it has been shown but Kirito is by Eugeo coming to his aid against PoH (who was legit about to kill Kirito at that point, and there was nothing Kirito could have done about it), that only happened because Ronie begged him too. And all Eugeo did was give Kirito his amp (with which, as previously mentioned, still only barely defeated PoH). And then against Subtlizer, Kirito was only able to neutralize him because Miller's greatest fear is the light of the human heart, as he is pure evil. Sonic is a pure hearted person, and gets empowered by the idea of friendship too (and Super Sonic absorbs light anyways).

Meanwhile, while Sonic normally likes to start out his fights by blitzing his opponents in H2H. But he is not stupid, and when he sees his opponents charging up a special attack (in this case, Kirito's release recollection), he is going to get out of their instantly. After the attack is finished, he would likely try to attack Kirito head on, and we all agree he has the AP advantage to knock him out. However, if he sees that his physical attacks are not putting him down, Sonic has no problem resorting to his hax, such as Chaos Control, which Kirito has no counter to. As shown during the second Shadow fight in SA2, if Sonic has a Chaos Emerald handy, he has no problem using Chaos Control during combat if his opponent has abilities he is not prepared for. Sonic could easily use this to teleport completely out of the range of his release recollection, and damage him to the point of being incapacited for a long time (his immortality doesn't mean he cannot be knocked out), or, the most likely scenario, BFR/seal him to a place where he will no longer be a threat (as shown at the end of SA2).

This also does not include the wisps, which are also in his standard arsenal and are very in-character for him to use. At that point, it is take your pick as Kirito does not resist any of these abilites, which range from Deconstruction, to Void Manipulation, Transmutation (he can also do this through Ring Time), and even Intangibility (giving him further resistance to Kirito's abilites).

All in all, I will vote Sonic, mid-diff.
 
JED said:
As someone who follows both Sonic and SAO, this seems like my cup of tea. The only time Kirito has ever used Age Manipulation was not even in a combat scenario; he realized that Alice's dragons were going to be murdered, which would have devastated her, and the only way he could prevent that was by turning them into eggs. Even when he was on the ropes against Subtlizer, he did not even think of using this ability. So even if it is combat applicable, he does not use it in combat at all.

As for transmutation, again, he has only been shown to use this once, and this was at the end of a fight after he had just defeated PoH (which he needed a major amp of 20,000+ players and his God mode to do so and still only barely won but that's besides the point). He defeated PoH and it was only after PoH had threatened to log back in and continue to hunt down him and Asuna did Kirito decide that he needed to trap PoH for good, so he turned him into a tree so PoH would be trapped. So he only has shown to do this at the end of a fight against his serial killer archenemy threatening to slit his girlfriend's throat. So this also is not in character for him to do.

Even if you want to argue the freeze would work (which why would Sonic stand there while an opponent he doesn't know charges up an attack is beyond me, especially when Sonic never stands still in combat), since everyone agrees Sonic has a massive AP advantage, he would be able to break out of it, as PoH was able to do so (at the time he was much stronger than Kirito as well), not to mention Sonic can break out of ice with subzero temperatures anyways.

Even with the Probability Manipulation, the thing is, it always only activated under a very specific circumstance. The only real example it has been shown but Kirito is by Eugeo coming to his aid against PoH (who was legit about to kill Kirito at that point, and there was nothing Kirito could have done about it), that only happened because Ronie begged him too. And all Eugeo did was give Kirito his amp (with which, as previously mentioned, still only barely defeated PoH). And then against Subtlizer, Kirito was only able to neutralize him because Miller's greatest fear is the light of the human heart, as he is pure evil. Sonic is a pure hearted person, and gets empowered by the idea of friendship too (and Super Sonic absorbs light anyways).

Meanwhile, while Sonic normally likes to start out his fights by blitzing his opponents in H2H. But he is not stupid, and when he sees his opponents charging up a special attack (in this case, Kirito's release recollection), he is going to get out of their instantly. After the attack is finished, he would likely try to attack Kirito head on, and we all agree he has the AP advantage to knock him out. However, if he sees that his physical attacks are not putting him down, Sonic has no problem resorting to his hax, such as Chaos Control, which Kirito has no counter to. As shown during the second Shadow fight in SA2, if Sonic has a Chaos Emerald handy, he has no problem using Chaos Control during combat if his opponent has abilities he is not prepared for. Sonic could easily use this to teleport completely out of the range of his release recollection, and damage him to the point of being incapacited for a long time (his immortality doesn't mean he cannot be knocked out), or, the most likely scenario, BFR/seal him to a place where he will no longer be a threat (as shown at the end of SA2).

This also does not include the wisps, which are also in his standard arsenal and are very in-character for him to use. At that point, it is take your pick as Kirito does not resist any of these abilites, which range from Deconstruction, to Void Manipulation, Transmutation (he can also do this through Ring Time), and even Intangibility (giving him further resistance to Kirito's abilites).

All in all, I will vote Sonic, mid-diff.
Click to expand...
Lou_change said:
From Kirito's ******* page: Passive Reality Warping (via Incarnation. As with all VR avatars, especially in the Underworld, Incarnation grants all the ability to alter reality via their conscious and subconscious belief and willpower, and can be described as many people sharing a single dream, with greater control of Incarnation being likened to "lucid dreaming"). The primary applications of Incarnation are as follows: Empowerment, Statistics Amplification and Statistics Reduction (Belief in one's own strength will amplify one's own power, however the opposite can happen to the user as well if they are not confident in a matchup), Limited Law Manipulation (If enough people believe that something cannot happen, it will become impossible and vice versa), and Probability Manipulation (If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)

What the page tells us is that Incarnation is reality warping and thru said reality warping they can alter probability.
Click to expand...
Actually, this helps further support my argument. Since it comes from Reality Warping then it will not effect Sonic at all.
 
JED said:
As someone who follows both Sonic and SAO, this seems like my cup of tea. The only time Kirito has ever used Age Manipulation was not even in a combat scenario; he realized that Alice's dragons were going to be murdered, which would have devastated her, and the only way he could prevent that was by turning them into eggs. Even when he was on the ropes against Subtlizer, he did not even think of using this ability. So even if it is combat applicable, he does not use it in combat at all.

As for transmutation, again, he has only been shown to use this once, and this was at the end of a fight after he had just defeated PoH (which he needed a major amp of 20,000+ players and his God mode to do so and still only barely won but that's besides the point). He defeated PoH and it was only after PoH had threatened to log back in and continue to hunt down him and Asuna did Kirito decide that he needed to trap PoH for good, so he turned him into a tree so PoH would be trapped. So he only has shown to do this at the end of a fight against his serial killer archenemy threatening to slit his girlfriend's throat. So this also is not in character for him to do.

Even if you want to argue the freeze would work (which why would Sonic stand there while an opponent he doesn't know charges up an attack is beyond me, especially when Sonic never stands still in combat), since everyone agrees Sonic has a massive AP advantage, he would be able to break out of it, as PoH was able to do so (at the time he was much stronger than Kirito as well), not to mention Sonic can break out of ice with subzero temperatures anyways.

Even with the Probability Manipulation, the thing is, it always only activated under a very specific circumstance. The only real example it has been shown but Kirito is by Eugeo coming to his aid against PoH (who was legit about to kill Kirito at that point, and there was nothing Kirito could have done about it), that only happened because Ronie begged him too. And all Eugeo did was give Kirito his amp (with which, as previously mentioned, still only barely defeated PoH). And then against Subtlizer, Kirito was only able to neutralize him because Miller's greatest fear is the light of the human heart, as he is pure evil. Sonic is a pure hearted person, and gets empowered by the idea of friendship too (and Super Sonic absorbs light anyways).

Meanwhile, while Sonic normally likes to start out his fights by blitzing his opponents in H2H. But he is not stupid, and when he sees his opponents charging up a special attack (in this case, Kirito's release recollection), he is going to get out of their instantly. After the attack is finished, he would likely try to attack Kirito head on, and we all agree he has the AP advantage to knock him out. However, if he sees that his physical attacks are not putting him down, Sonic has no problem resorting to his hax, such as Chaos Control, which Kirito has no counter to. As shown during the second Shadow fight in SA2, if Sonic has a Chaos Emerald handy, he has no problem using Chaos Control during combat if his opponent has abilities he is not prepared for. Sonic could easily use this to teleport completely out of the range of his release recollection, and damage him to the point of being incapacited for a long time (his immortality doesn't mean he cannot be knocked out), or, the most likely scenario, BFR/seal him to a place where he will no longer be a threat (as shown at the end of SA2).

This also does not include the wisps, which are also in his standard arsenal and are very in-character for him to use. At that point, it is take your pick as Kirito does not resist any of these abilites, which range from Deconstruction, to Void Manipulation, Transmutation (he can also do this through Ring Time), and even Intangibility (giving him further resistance to Kirito's abilites).

All in all, I will vote Sonic, mid-diff.
Click to expand...
Damn this dude spittin'

FRA this.
 
JED said:
As someone who follows both Sonic and SAO, this seems like my cup of tea. The only time Kirito has ever used Age Manipulation was not even in a combat scenario; he realized that Alice's dragons were going to be murdered, which would have devastated her, and the only way he could prevent that was by turning them into eggs. Even when he was on the ropes against Subtlizer, he did not even think of using this ability. So even if it is combat applicable, he does not use it in combat at all.

As for transmutation, again, he has only been shown to use this once, and this was at the end of a fight after he had just defeated PoH (which he needed a major amp of 20,000+ players and his God mode to do so and still only barely won but that's besides the point). He defeated PoH and it was only after PoH had threatened to log back in and continue to hunt down him and Asuna did Kirito decide that he needed to trap PoH for good, so he turned him into a tree so PoH would be trapped. So he only has shown to do this at the end of a fight against his serial killer archenemy threatening to slit his girlfriend's throat. So this also is not in character for him to do.

Even if you want to argue the freeze would work (which why would Sonic stand there while an opponent he doesn't know charges up an attack is beyond me, especially when Sonic never stands still in combat), since everyone agrees Sonic has a massive AP advantage, he would be able to break out of it, as PoH was able to do so (at the time he was much stronger than Kirito as well), not to mention Sonic can break out of ice with subzero temperatures anyways.

Even with the Probability Manipulation, the thing is, it always only activated under a very specific circumstance. The only real example it has been shown but Kirito is by Eugeo coming to his aid against PoH (who was legit about to kill Kirito at that point, and there was nothing Kirito could have done about it), that only happened because Ronie begged him too. And all Eugeo did was give Kirito his amp (with which, as previously mentioned, still only barely defeated PoH). And then against Subtlizer, Kirito was only able to neutralize him because Miller's greatest fear is the light of the human heart, as he is pure evil. Sonic is a pure hearted person, and gets empowered by the idea of friendship too (and Super Sonic absorbs light anyways).

Meanwhile, while Sonic normally likes to start out his fights by blitzing his opponents in H2H. But he is not stupid, and when he sees his opponents charging up a special attack (in this case, Kirito's release recollection), he is going to get out of their instantly. After the attack is finished, he would likely try to attack Kirito head on, and we all agree he has the AP advantage to knock him out. However, if he sees that his physical attacks are not putting him down, Sonic has no problem resorting to his hax, such as Chaos Control, which Kirito has no counter to. As shown during the second Shadow fight in SA2, if Sonic has a Chaos Emerald handy, he has no problem using Chaos Control during combat if his opponent has abilities he is not prepared for. Sonic could easily use this to teleport completely out of the range of his release recollection, and damage him to the point of being incapacited for a long time (his immortality doesn't mean he cannot be knocked out), or, the most likely scenario, BFR/seal him to a place where he will no longer be a threat (as shown at the end of SA2).

This also does not include the wisps, which are also in his standard arsenal and are very in-character for him to use. At that point, it is take your pick as Kirito does not resist any of these abilites, which range from Deconstruction, to Void Manipulation, Transmutation (he can also do this through Ring Time), and even Intangibility (giving him further resistance to Kirito's abilites).

All in all, I will vote Sonic, mid-diff.
Click to expand...
Sonic won’t be able to one-shot Kirito. He would have to destroy Kirito’s fluctlight. Even if Sonic incaps Kirito, Kirito can still fight as no matter how many body parts his fall off and as long as he believes in himself. Yes, Kirito is also not an idiot. He’s Nigh-Omniscient in his Star King key. The moment Sonic lands a punch on him, Kirito can just transmute Sonic into a tree. As for the freezing, would he be able to resist a freeze that is very close to Absolute Zero?
Lou_change said:
From Kirito's ******* page: Passive Reality Warping (via Incarnation. As with all VR avatars, especially in the Underworld, Incarnation grants all the ability to alter reality via their conscious and subconscious belief and willpower, and can be described as many people sharing a single dream, with greater control of Incarnation being likened to "lucid dreaming"). The primary applications of Incarnation are as follows: Empowerment, Statistics Amplification and Statistics Reduction (Belief in one's own strength will amplify one's own power, however the opposite can happen to the user as well if they are not confident in a matchup), Limited Law Manipulation (If enough people believe that something cannot happen, it will become impossible and vice versa), and Probability Manipulation (If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)

What the page tells us is that Incarnation is reality warping and thru said reality warping they can alter probability.
Click to expand...
BruH. Do you srsly hate Kirito? Cuz’ it literally sounds like it, especially since your arguments from the Mario vs Kirito thread. Like srsly, Ned almost didn’t count yours and Garchomp votes before.
 
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
Sonic won’t be able to one-shot Kirito. He would have to destroy Kirito’s fluctlight. Even if Sonic incaps Kirito, Kirito can still fight as no matter how many body parts his fall off and as long as he believes in himself. Yes, Kirito is also not an idiot. He’s Nigh-Omniscient in his Star King key. The moment Sonic lands a punch on him, Kirito can just transmute Sonic into a tree. As for the freezing, would he be able to resist a freeze that is very close to Absolute Zero?

BruH. Do you srsly hate Kirito? Cuz’ it literally sounds like it, especially since your arguments from the Mario vs Kirito thread. Like srsly, Ned almost didn’t count yours and Garchomp votes before.
Click to expand...
Bruh just accept it he loses no need to be petty and start saying you hate character.
 
Star_King_Demon_Lord said:
Sonic won’t be able to one-shot Kirito. He would have to destroy Kirito’s fluctlight. Even if Sonic incaps Kirito, Kirito can still fight as no matter how many body parts his fall off and as long as he believes in himself. Yes, Kirito is also not an idiot. He’s Nigh-Omniscient in his Star King key. The moment Sonic lands a punch on him, Kirito can just transmute Sonic into a tree. As for the freezing, would he be able to resist a freeze that is very close to Absolute Zero?
Click to expand...
Sonic can BFR him and Kirito can't lead with it
 
The man already explained the tree thing. He did it. That one time, and nothing else, all out of combat.

Wasn't the Abyssal Horror able to break out because it had been used to Space Temperatures? Super Sonic was in space for extended periods of time in SA2 when he had to Chaos Control SC-ARK

Okay fine, Fluclight regen. But then Sonic gon realize that and be like "Screw this! I need to get back to my chili dogs! Heh hah!" And Chaos Control kirito to a different star system or whatever, maybe into a star.
 
No I am merely upset by the fact you are arguing Kirito like this I could care less about the character. I am mad you aren't even telling the truth about the character you are arguing for.
 
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