Justice for Tokyo Revengers.

[MorrisHatesYou]

A katana "increase" your AS, you arm will move at X speed while the katana at far higher speed

Yes.

Ran... Don't we only see Ran hitting Sanzu ones? Which Is more a reaction thing, they dont really fight.

They do, this is the aftermath, they're literally shown as equals.

 

[Zefra3011]

Yes.

They do, this is the aftermath, they're literally shown as equals.

I guess so, I still think you can't swing a metal pipe at the same speed as a katana, is like the same discussion about the javelin and the umbrella in another thread.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I guess so, I still think you can't swing a metal pipe at the same speed as a katana, is like the same discussion about the javelin and the umbrella in another thread.

Umbrella has canopies that slow them down.

The main problem is the range here, even so, the difference would be extremely minor here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

quite literally no one has argued that its only speed they are wary about in fact quite the opposite was argued the entire time that they only fear piercing damage, this has been the case across several threads. I explicitly stated Occam's razor would dictate they fear guns because they're guns and considering this verse's general showings without calcs and narratively we'd take that as guns are guns and obviously if someone shoots at them they can't do anything be it dodge or tank the shots. It has never been mutually exclusive and both reasonings would be the case so I don't appreciate the twisting of the words and that argument and find it in bad taste that said here's what I got for the takemichi one

I was generally speaking. It wasn’t directed to any arguments in this thread but in posts I’ve seen in the past. Maybe things had changed since then but I did infact see people argue the fear of guns as a point.
I will say this tho.

There is just no way of knowing why exactly the verse fear guns. That would make someone bringing this point in a speed thread a non argument since it’s not a definitive proof but just speculating that they could fear guns due to the bullet’s speed since we are aware this claim isn’t necessarily true. Or… Wouldn’t claimimg they fear all aspects of guns simply because we know they fear guns be a hasty generalization fallacy rather than chalking it up with Occam’s Razor? The Occam’s Razor choice is a simpler choice but it wouldn’t really be truly Occam’s Razor because we are still left with the same questions/assumptions we started with. So it’s actually more of a fallacy in disguise.

Whatever the case may be, even if in the end nobody is using this in their arguments and I typed all this for nothing. I just want to get it off my chest that I can’t agree with using something as ambiguous as the “fear of guns” as any form of argument due their ambiguity. That’s all.

Thanks for the Takemichi calc. I’ll see the distance between the shooter and Senju to see what angle makes the most sense for a body.

edit: low end is fine.

 

[Dinozxd]

Also @CloverDragon03 @DMUA sorry to bother you both but can I get your opinions here as well on the arguments as well as the usability of this calc

Takemichi dodges a Bullet

vsbattles.fandom.com

All that insulting just to go and make the calculation I was talking about. It seems like I was accused of posting fake scans for no reason. Great.

The scans you guys presented might be correct and mine could be a translation error (I did not fake the scan as I even posted my source on it) as a lot of them say the same thing but I still think this calculation would work with the same reasons as Arnold.

Edit: I think using this panel is better for the distance between the shooter and Takemichi as wide shots are more consistent and both the shooter and Takemichi don't move before this panel so the distances should be fine.

 

[HollowVanity]

I agree, at a certain point you guys gotta realise your points are all assumption and have 0 backing behind them, do for us to accept your words as final and for you to actually debunk Tokyo Revengers you would need proof in which you don't have. Of course we are assuming things but we have some sort of backing as to why we think this way, we have explained every non bullet dodging feat but you guys seem to ignore it and say, they coulda just dodged it and ignore our points.

Also, saying "wait for the anime" isn't a good point, I literally said this in my mha debunk thread and multiple people said NO including staff, stop trying to extend TR speed wait time because we frankly would rather not wait 3 months until the chapter gets posted.

 

[HollowVanity]

Anyway, can we solve this by creating discussion rules? I am not intending to obstruct the discussion by @Dalesean027 and others; however, I am concerned that this discussion may be subject to interminable and non-concluding threads.

@Dalesean027 Any idea how you would like to have them? I would be happy to assist you with rephrasing such a rule.

We simply should create a rule against the creation of threads regarding upgrades of Tokyo Revengers characters to speeds of Supersonic or higher due to their outliery nature and the several dozens of times CGMs have chimed in and rejected and debunked said feats. That is to say that without valid support of said tiers from the anime interperations of the feats themself or author statements then such threads should not be allowed.

I'm so heavily against this, its funny that you bring up creating a discussion rule because you guys can't debunk our points and think that your opinion is better then ours even though yours is just an assumption with no backing, creating a rule like this is just ignorant imo and has no reasoning behind it, especially because these threads last a long time like I saw one that was 1000 replies, these threads last a long time because there IS a debate to be had and if people keep coming back to it, its likely your points HAVE flaws, as we've pointed out

 

[ImmortalDread]

I will take your disagreement into consideration.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I will take your disagreement into consideration.

Listen, no one can debunk the fact that Senju during the gun feat scales nowhere, as she was holding back the entire time before chapter 229, and the gun feat was in chapter 220 and 221.

And no one gave a valid debunk on the 2nd part of the argument.

Proceeding with your and Dalesean's suggestion would merely be an abuse of power.

 

[Zefra3011]

Listen, no one can debunk the fact that Senju during the gun feat scales nowhere, as she was holding back the entire time before chapter 229, and the gun feat was in chapter 220 and 221.

And no one gave a valid debunk on the 2nd part of the argument.

Proceeding with your and Dalesean's suggestion would merely be an abuse of power.

I kinda did, also "no one can debunk" for you just mean "I dont think the debunk is valid" because I can pretty much say the same honestly, at the end the staff will decide so if you arguments were better than our then the staff wont make that rule pass, is simple, if you think the site is corrupt and the staff abuse their power (like... I dont remember who wrote to Ant time ago for this issue, maybe vapourrrr?) I don't really understand why you are here because I wouldn't stay in a community like this if I would think that, I just feel like your comment was uneccesary, like any other comment on how I used the verse reputation to downgrade It and stuff like that.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I kinda did, also "no one can debunk" for you just mean "I dont think the debunk is valid" because I can pretty much say the same honestly

You didn't debunk anything.
You can't say the same thing because you think her revealing her true potential is like Mikey's Dark Impulses. Her holding back or not is VOLUNTARY, while Mikey's is the opposite. And Senju has no reason to hold back after chapter 229.

if you think the site is corrupt and the staff abuse their power (like... I dont remember who wrote to Ant time ago for this issue, maybe vapourrrr?) I don't really understand why you are here because I wouldn't stay in a community like this if I would think that, I just feel like your comment was uneccesary.

I never said the staff is corrupt? All I was saying is that proceeding with Dale's and Dread's suggestion is an abuse of power.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Listen, no one can debunk the fact that Senju during the gun feat scales nowhere, as she was holding back the entire time before chapter 229, and the gun feat was in chapter 220 and 221.

And no one gave a valid debunk on the 2nd part of the argument.

Proceeding with your and Dalesean's suggestion would merely be an abuse of power.

I'll take your disagreement into account as well.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I'll take your disagreement into account as well.

Don't only take my "disagreement", include my reasons as well.

 

[HollowVanity]

I'll take your disagreement into account as well.

 

[Dinozxd]

Brah no one has time to sit here and edit scans and frankly this verse isn't worth that but for insistin this sorta thing and trying to stir up controversy I will be warning you that I will report you should you openly lie like this again when we literally caught you in the act of lying about that particular scene

Even the wiki itself supports the scans we sent so respect shut the ***** up with that

lol. Didn't see this. Funny how you are going to report me cuz I was "lying about that particular scene" when I literally proved I didn't and just got one sentence wrong cuz of a translation error. You literally accused me of faking and blatantly lying about the feat here and here without any proof.

I always questioned your demanour towards me since the start of the thread. I get it if you don't like some TR supporters but I don't wanna tolerate any more of your aggressive comments aimed at me.

I don't wanna pick any fights or stir up a controversy here so please tone down the hate. I sincerely apologize if my demanour towards you was wrong. Let's not drag this out.

 

[Dinozxd]

I'll take your disagreement into account as well.

Well, take my disagreement into account as well then

 

[RoggerReggor]

Listen, no one can debunk the fact that Senju during the gun feat scales nowhere, as she was holding back the entire time before chapter 229, and the gun feat was in chapter 220 and 221.

And no one gave a valid debunk on the 2nd part of the argument.

Proceeding with your and Dalesean's suggestion would merely be an abuse of power.

I don't know why you think so. First of all, let's understand Senju well.

Senju in chapter 229 mentions that she avoided her potential because she realized her abilities could lead Takeomi on the wrong path.
In chapter 216, we see Takemichi having a vision where Senju dies. Takemichi is clueless of it and he hasn't realized that he can see the future.

Takemichi's vision are realities. Until they are stopped from happening, they would surely happen.

Senju in chapter 229 specifically mentions that she avoided her potential, which means that it was her decision, nothing supernatural stopping her from showing her potential, she can show it okay whenever she feels like doing so. Also, the vision comes when she's in a fight, she specifically mentions Takeomi as well. So, she just very well wants to not show her true potential in front of Takeomi so that he doesn't get lead to a wrong path.

Senji in chapter 216 is dead already (because Takemichi's visions are reality), and I don't think she was holding back her true potential for any time there, in fact, I wouldn't say "I don't think", saying "I am sure of it" is better because Senju literally just played on her life and even lost it. After that, her next word is "Takemichi, I kept my promise.". Now, understand this bro, her decision for Takeomi is a side thing, it is something which wasn't always mandatory for her as I said earlier, but her promise with Takemichi is something for which she can even GIVE HER LIFE, I don't know why you think Senju wouldn't use her true potential to save Takemichi, when her promise is seemingly more important.

Edit: I have been trying to explain this like for around a day already ehhh.

 

[Dinozxd]

Senju in chapter 229 mentions that she avoided her potential because she realized her abilities could lead Takeomi on the wrong path.
In chapter 216, we see Takemichi having a vision where Senju dies. Takemichi is clueless of it and he hasn't realized that he can see the future.

I don't understand why you still present the same stuff again and again. Senju never showed her True Potential until her fight vs South. If she doesn't say something like "I used my full potential to save you", then she that just means she didn't use her true potential. That's it. You are just assuming she would use her full potential in a life or death situation. That's like saying: "Mikey would just activate his Dark Impulses when he was losing aganist Izana in his base" or "Angry would just cry on purpose to win every fight". That's just not how it works dude.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I don't know why you think so. First of all, let's understand Senju well.

Senju in chapter 229 mentions that she avoided her potential because she realized her abilities could lead Takeomi on the wrong path.
In chapter 216, we see Takemichi having a vision where Senju dies. Takemichi is clueless of it and he hasn't realized that he can see the future.

Takemichi's vision are realities. Until they are stopped from happening, they wouldn't happen.

Senju in chapter 229 specifically mentions that she avoided her potential, which means that it was her decision, nothing supernatural stopping her from showing her potential, she can show it okay whenever she feels like doing so. Also, the vision comes when she's in a fight, she specifically mentions Takeomi as well. So, she just very well wants to not show her true potential in front of Takeomi so that he doesn't get lead to a wrong path.

Senji in chapter 216 is dead already (because Takemichi's visions are reality), and I don't think she was holding back her true potential for any time there, in fact, I wouldn't say "I don't think", saying "I am sure of it" is better because Senju literally just played on her life and even lost it. After that, her next word is "Takemichi, I kept my promise.". Now, understand this bro, her decision for Takeomi is a side thing, it is something which wasn't always mandatory for her as I said earlier, but her promise with Takemichi is something for which she can even GIVE HER LIFE, I don't know why you think Senju wouldn't use her true potential to save Takemichi, when her promise is seemingly more important.

Because nothing dictates that she used her full potential during that moment, only during the South fight. You need evidences for that. You're making up a scene that just doesn't happen anywhere in the manga. That's not how it works.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I don't understand why you still present the same stuff again and again. Senju never showed her True Potential until her fight vs South.

Anything to back that up? Like just tell me why doesn't it make sense for Senju to not give her best to save Takemichi? Her promise with Takemichi was such that she wasn't even afraid to lose her life. Don't bring this "she never showed her potential", she just said that she avoided her potential, avoiding is a decision and it's nothing mandatory, she was not bound by any supernatural means to stop her potential.

If she doesn't say something like "I used my full potential to save you", then she that just means she didn't use her true potential. That's it.

Same, if she doesn't say that her entire thing for not showing her potential was to save Takeomi, then that just means it's restricted to Takeomi? Is your entire argument just "They didn't say it then it's not the case"? Then it would never make sense for Senju to show her true potential even more. That's literally it.

You are just assuming she would use her full potential in a life or death situation.

And are you just saying she wouldn't? Her promise with Takemichi is literally on another level than any Takeomi saving plan.

See, in a life-or-death situation, you don't care about "holding back for Takeomi" of course.

That's like saying "Mikey would just activate his Dark Impulses when he was losing aganist Izana in his base". That's just not how it works.

Mikey didn't have enough darkness to activate his DI against Izana. Plus, the matter is completely different, Mikey would not activate his DI because he knows how much casualties it causes, also, he asked everyone to refrain from meeting him.

 

[Dinozxd]

Anything to back that up?

'"When did I start avoiding my true potential?" in the South vs Senju fight indicates that massively.

Don't bring this "she never showed her potential", she just said that she avoided her potential, avoiding is a decision and it's nothing mandatory, she was not bound by any supernatural means to stop her potential.

It's Angry's decision to cry or not cry and the only thing holding him back is his promise with his brother Smiley. Yet he still doesn't cry on every ******* fight on purpose to make himself stronger cuz he simply doesn't need it.

Same, if she doesn't say that her entire thing for not showing her potential was to save Takeomi, then that just means it's restricted to Takeomi?

Yes.

Is your entire argument just "They didn't say it then it's not the case"?

Close but not that simple.

Then it would never make sense for Senju to show her true potential even more. That's literally it.

Don't understand how you got that. Senju stopped avoiding her potential from Chapter 229 and onwards cuz that's literally what was stated.

See, in a life-or-death situation, you don't care about "holding back for Takeomi" of course.

Depends on the context.

Plus, the matter is completely different, Mikey would not activate his DI because he knows how much casualties it causes,

Takeomi would be corrupted by money if she showed true potential there. It's basically the same thing.

 

[Dalesean027]

All that insulting just to go and make the calculation I was talking about. It seems like I was accused of posting fake scans for no reason. Great.

My guy I have not accepted this as a complete bullet dodge feat yet and that's why I've contacted other CGMs and have responded as such in the blog comments and you're absoltely the last one to talk as you blatantly called us out for lying and editing scans while also having not shown the full context of the feat originally which I personally immediately called out. So I definitely don't want to hear it from you

As said prior though I'll leave any opinions up to the other staff members decisions

 

[RoggerReggor]

'"When did I start avoiding my true potential?" in the South vs Senju fight indicates that massively.

It doesn't.

It's Angry's decision to cry or not cry and the only thing holding him back is his promise with his brother Smiley. Yet he still doesn't cry on every ***** fight on purpose to make himself stronger cuz he simply doesn't need it.

Stop mentioning other stuff to back up your claim. Angry's promise with Smiley isn't related. Secondly, there are promise priorities which can be understood easily by seeing my argument.

Yes.

Then anything you say doesn't make sense. There's no Takeomi during that feat there.

Close but not that simple.

If that's even "close", it's just wrong.

Don't understand how you got that. Senju stopped avoiding her potential from Chapter 229 and onwards cuz that's literally what was stated.

She doesn't need to avoid her potential during saving Takemichi. Her avoiding potential is literally just for Takeomi.

Depends on the context.

Doesn't depend on the context. Also, she stated it for Takeomi only and there was no Takeomi there. In fact, she would have died so no Takeomi caring takes place there as well.

Takeomi would be corrupted by money if she showed true potential there. It's basically the same thing.

If you mean the bullet feat by "there", then did you just ignore the fact that Senju was just going to die in that moment?

you're absoltely the last one to talk as you blatantly called us out for lying and editing scans while also having not shown the full context of the feat originally which I personally immediately called out.

WHAT. THE. HELL.

 

[Dinozxd]

My guy I have not accepted this as a complete bullet dodge feat yet and that's why I've contacted other CGMs and have responded as such in the blog comments and you're absoltely the last one to talk as you blatantly called us out for lying and editing scans while also having not shown the full context of the feat originally which I personally immediately called out. So I definitely don't want to hear it from you

As said prior though I'll leave any opinions up to the other staff members decisions

lol. Didn't see this. Funny how you are going to report me cuz I was "lying about that particular scene" when I literally proved I didn't and just got one sentence wrong cuz of a translation error. You literally accused me of faking and blatantly lying about the feat here and here without any proof.

I always questioned your demanour towards me since the start of the thread. I get it if you don't like some TR supporters but I don't wanna tolerate any more of your aggressive comments aimed at me.

I don't wanna pick any fights or stir up a controversy here so please tone down the hate. I sincerely apologize if my demanour towards you was wrong. Let's not drag this out.

You missed this I guess + I didn't mean to accuse you for editing scans. I thought you used edited scans mistakenly so that's why I said that. I never directly said that you edited the scans yourself and like you said, who would waste their time for that.

 

[Dalesean027]

WHAT. THE. HELL

What???

 

[RoggerReggor]

What???

Sorry if that disturbed you, I was genuinely surprised by how the same stuff as false accusations to staff are happening again. KLOL left evaluating TR because he was accused for "not accepting a calc higher than 300 kJ" and just downgrading the Taiju feat.

 

[Dalesean027]

Sorry if that disturbed you, I was genuinely surprised by how the same stuff as false accusations to staff are happening again. KLOL left evaluating TR because he was accused for "not accepting a calc higher than 300 kJ" and just downgrading the Taiju feat.

Oh those have never stopped lol. See any thread prior to this or even this one apparently im "abusing my power" and am "corrupt" by disagreeing and proposing a discussion rule

 

[Dinozxd]

It doesn't.

good counter argument.

Stop mentioning other stuff to back up your claim. Angry's promise with Smiley isn't related. Secondly, there are promise priorities which can be understood easily by seeing my argument.

It's pretty much the same bruh. Senju using her true potential is a stat amp just like Angry's Crying Blue Ogre.

Then anything you say doesn't make sense. There's no Takeomi during that feat there.

I answered this.

If that's even "close", it's just wrong

Good counter argument.

She doesn't need to avoid her potential during saving Takemichi. Her avoiding potential is literally just for Takeomi.

Senju avoiding her potential is for everything that affects Takeomi directly or indirectly. You probably think It's only directly but then she wouldn't stop avoiding her potential aganist South cuz Brahman losing and getting disbanded would not affect Takeomi directly.

Doesn't depend on the context.

good counter argument.

If you mean the bullet feat by "there", then did you just ignore the fact that Senju was just going to die in that moment?

She didn't know she would die for saving Takemichi there so this doesn't count as a life or death situation and even if it was, that's still not enough to back your claim up.

Sorry if that disturbed you, I was genuinely surprised by how the same stuff as false accusations to staff are happening again. KLOL left evaluating TR because he was accused for "not accepting a calc higher than 300 kJ" and just downgrading the Taiju feat.

I didn't say anything like that to Dale or any staff members (in fact, I remember telling Hollow to stop saying shit like that in a blog post). Stop correlating stuff that has no relevance to me.

Oh those have never stopped lol. See any thread prior to this or even this one apparently im "abusing my power" and am "corrupt" by disagreeing and proposing a discussion rule

same goes to this. I never said anything like that.

 

[Dinozxd]

This thread is starting to become a controversial thread accusing me for stuff I didn't even do. I suggest you two to stop doing that because it's just disrespectful and insulting.

 

[Passersby]

...uhh, off topic, but i feel like the term blitzzed is used a bit too much...even when it really isn't a blitz


spoilers for demon slayer, but to give an example

here we have koku moves fast enough that Muichiro's blade is inches from his neck mid-swing and then he grabs the blade (bottom left corner of the page), pulls it from Muichiro's grasp, and impales him on it so quickly that Muichiro doesn't even register that the blade is gone until he's already pinned against the pillar.

or giyuu moving fast enough to tie up inosuke, then hang him from a tree without the latter even realizing what happened

panel(1) panel(2)


something like this, a blitz is when the opponent's speed is so much higher there legit nothing you can do to even preceive his movement

hope this helps

 

[Dalesean027]

This thread is starting to become a controversial thread accusing me for stuff I didn't even do. I suggest you two to stop doing that because it's just disrespectful and insulting.

No one accused you, the statements were made about the thread in general. You're quite literally the only one making accusations here as no one said "man Dinozxd said this"

 

[HollowVanity]

...uhh, off topic, but i feel like the term blitzzed is used a bit too much...even when it really isn't a blitz


spoilers for demon slayer, but to give an example

here we have koku moves fast enough that Muichiro's blade is inches from his neck mid-swing and then he grabs the blade (bottom left corner of the page), pulls it from Muichiro's grasp, and impales him on it so quickly that Muichiro doesn't even register that the blade is gone until he's already pinned against the pillar.

or giyuu moving fast enough to tie up inosuke, then hang him from a tree without the latter even realizing what happened

panel(1) panel(2)


something like this, a blitz is when the opponent's speed is so much higher there legit nothing you can do to even preceive his movement

hope this helps

There is a difference between a perception blitz and a reaction blitz lad

 

[Dinozxd]

No one accused you, the statements were made about the thread in general. You're quite literally the only one making accusations here as no one said "man Dinozxd said this"

My guy I have not accepted this as a complete bullet dodge feat yet and that's why I've contacted other CGMs and have responded as such in the blog comments and you're absoltely the last one to talk as you blatantly called us out for lying and editing scans while also having not shown the full context of the feat originally which I personally immediately called out. So I definitely don't want to hear it from you

As said prior though I'll leave any opinions up to the other staff members decisions

 

[Passersby]

There is a difference between a perception blitz and a reaction blitz lad

a blitz by wiki definition is an an all around outclassing in speed, other characters commenting how fast someone is really just indicates they're at least somewhat comparable

...and yes, i've seen a lot of the "blitzes" provided, none of them really showed an all around outclassing in speed in any form

 

[HollowVanity]

a blitz by wiki definition is an an all around outclassing in speed, other characters commenting how fast someone is really just indicates they're at least somewhat comparable

...and yes, i've seen a lot of the "blitzes" provided, none of them really showed an all around outclassing in speed in any form

Kakucho clearly blitzed Inui and Chifuyu, they couldn't even react pal

 

[Passersby]

Kakucho clearly blitzed Inui and Chifuyu, they couldn't even react pal

can i see the feat again

i've never really read the series i'm just judging based on the information i saw in the thread

 

[Dalesean027]

Dino you realize the one you linked was for something you actually did

Something we just got past so now I guess you're just backtracking or something?

 

[HollowVanity]

Dino you realize the one you linked was for something you actually did

Something we just got past so now I guess you're just backtracking or something?

I was remaking your calculation but I realised I couldn't be farked, you did it wrong cause Takemichi's mouth is gaping open in the second image meaning his face length is alot longer, so I would change it to face width (from just under his eye) for better accuracy. I also wanna say that I don't think hair length counts to a characters height, might be wrong but I think it shouldn't.

 

[Dinozxd]

Dino you realize the one you linked was for something you actually did

I'm gonna say this again. I never lied about the feat. I was misinformed because of a translation error. You guys accused me of faking a scan and cutting out panels in a feat. I got annoyed and said that you used an edited scan. I never even said that you edited the scan on purpose, It's extremely normal for a scan website to translate something wrong and post it on their website and mislead people. I even apologized for that above.

Something we just got past so now I guess you're just backtracking or something?

I only pointed out the way you acted towards me at the start of the thread even though I never said anything agressive to you.

 

[HollowVanity]

can i see the feat again

i've never really read the series i'm just judging based on the information i saw in the thread

before you say they literally reacted, that was during a different timeframe, before Kakucho DASHED at them