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I already and DT explained further, it's someone who physically perceives at least one temporal dimension as a spatial dimension they can roam around freely in.
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sorry, but can u explain it on simpler terms or give an example to make it simpler to understand?I already and DT explained further, it's someone who physically perceives at least one temporal dimension as a spatial dimension they can roam around freely in.
Being in the same location or not shouldn’t matter since these realms simply exist beyond the lower ones in any given cosmology with higher dimensions.Because presumably the realms aren't in the exact same location. If they are then accessing it isn't a speed feat, it'd probably be something about perspective or physiology.
Uh, last I checked, actual higher dimensions usually always transcended time and space? So, always? Unless im missing something here.It’s still transcending time and space
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Since when does accessing a higher-D realm require transcending time and space?
You mean vague statements of space-time transcendence without actual context for them. Which my particular case of what I’m asking clearly doesn’t fall under that.Even then, the OP literally said that this thread was created to remove characters whose only justification was "transcending time and space", as that doesn't qualify you for immeasurable.
Besides it being a higher d realm which, as far as I’ve always perceived it here for this site, transcends time and space?And if anything the default be the other way around, that you need to prove it isn’t isnt required.
Bullshit. There is absolutely no reason for that to be our default assumption.
With, no offense, weak reasonings. The speed needs toAnd multiple other people have already said why they don't want threads like that.
You going around stating blatantly incorrect things that have already been corrected in this thread does not mean we need a new thread.
We literally remade our Tier 1 definitions months ago so this wouldn't be true anymore.Uh, last I checked, actual higher dimensions usually always transcended time and space? So, always? Unless im missing something here.
This I wasn’t aware of.We literally remade our Tier 1 definitions months ago so this wouldn't be true anymore.
They don't need to, no, they can, but it's not a need. Unless it is 1-A, that still needs it, because otherwise just viewing High 1-B as fiction is Low 1-A.This I wasn’t aware of.
So a higher d realm doesn’t need to transcend space-time to be considered such anymore?
i get this part my question is what about when someone is stated to not be bound by linear timeBut Immeasurable speed is far beyond even that. They also perceive all infinite speed things as frozen, and they can also travel forward and backward in time at will. They can basically hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time and any period in between as casually as anyone can roll their eyes left or right. And this also means their reactions speeds are faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struct, or they can strike someone even before they launched in attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.
But Immeasurable speed is far beyond even that. They also perceive all infinite speed things as frozen, and they can also travel forward and backward in time at will. They can basically hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time and any period in between as casually as anyone can roll their eyes left or right. And this also means their reactions speeds are faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struct, or they can strike someone even before they launched in attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.
statements could also workWhat character has been specifically shown to be able to do all that? And I'm not talking theoretically, like has on paper example of doing all that?
Because Distance not mattering doesn’t mean speed doesn’t. The point here being that in this case, your speed isn’t bound by time and space because your transcending it (provided the realm is proven to do that via Ion clearing things up now). Thus, immeasurable speed.Being in the same location or not shouldn’t matter since these realms simply exist beyond the lower ones in any given cosmology with higher dimensions.
If distance doesn't matter, neither does speed, so idk why you're bringing them up for a speed discussion.
Okay and I don’t agree with that. If moving freely through linear time with speed can get immeasurable, traveling to a higher d realm that’s proven to transcend space-time with sheer speed should grant the same thing.Cases I talked about and explained the context of were still dismissed because space-time transcendence isn't enough.
The point I made here is that if a verse doesn’t treat FTL or any finite movement as good enough to do a feat that’s technically immeasurable and can qualify for immeasurable soeedsAnd refer to the earlier discussions with linear time movement. As someone above put it, a verse shouldn’t be disqualified from immeasurable speed if it doesn’t treat finite movement like FTL speeds as good enough to do the feat. So this shouldn’t be any different.
I do not understand this analogy.
"Some verses don't treat FTL speeds as Immeasurable. They shouldn't be disqualified from getting Immeasurable because of this. Therefore traveling to a higher-D realm is Immeasurable."
Infinite and Immeasurable speeds in general aren’t quantifiable speeds, so I’m not sure why it being unquantifiable stops it for being immeasurable.Like I said before, I think that's unquantifiable for many reasons. Maybe you could use it as a supporting feat tho.
statements could also work
Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann has attacked across time before.What character has been specifically shown to be able to do all that? And I'm not talking theoretically, like has on paper example of doing all that?
You don't have to do literally every single thing DDM listed. Those are just various different ways you can qualify.Yes. But it hasn't done all the other things that DDM also listed.
You don't have to do literally every single thing DDM listed. Those are just various different ways you can qualify.
Okay and for Immeasurable?Because Distance not mattering doesn’t mean speed doesn’t.
Distance is half of the equation. If there's no distance being moved, it does not require any speed. If there's a finite distance being moved, it requires finite speed. If there's an infinite distance being moved, it requires infinite speed, etc.
Yes and that’s exactly why I’m arguing higher dimensional space-time transcendence done freely should definitely qualify for immeasurable speedsThe point here being that in this case, your speed isn’t bound by time and space because your transcending it (provided the realm is proven to do that via Ion clearing things up now). Thus, immeasurable speed.
Again, immeasurable speed isn't achieved by transcending space and time. Characters from verses like Digimon have statements like that as supporting them physically traveling through the past, present, and future via speed alone.
Nice job of putting words in my mouth. I’m not imposing anything here, I’m calling out something I see is a flaw that makes, as I said above, absolutely no sense and hasn’t been properly explained yet.Okay and I don’t agree with that. If moving freely through linear time with speed can get immeasurable, traveling to a higher d realm that’s proven to transcend space-time with sheer speed should grant the same thing.
You disagree with our threads that established these standards. Cool. That doesn't mean you get to impose your own standards when we're trying to enforce what we've agreed upon.
No because that’s not how infinite speed works. If the verse doesn’t acknowledge finite speeds can do what’s technically an immeasurable speed feat, then the feat is simply immeasurable for lack of another option.Then a verse that doesn’t treat finite speeds good enough to move into a higher space-time transcending dimension should also be able to qualify for immeasurable by the same logic.
If a verse says that finite speeds aren't enough to move into "higher space-time transcending dimensions" then that doesn't mean they have immeasurable speed, it means they have infinite speed.
These are not the same standards, the FTL stuff is completely unrelated.
It also doesn’t mean it can’t be greater than them either.Infinite and Immeasurable speeds in general aren’t quantifiable speeds, so I’m not sure why it being unquantifiable stops it for being immeasurable.
Unquantifiable does not mean infinite/greater than infinite. It means "We don't know what it is, it could be anywhere within the finite range, it could be infinite, it could be immeasurable. Since it could be absolutely anything it's unusable as a feat without further context."
Seems like it? Tho I would personaly add the whole unbound stuffOk I’m finally done with school stuff for the time being, so correct me if I’m wrong, but the statement alone of transcending time and space isn’t enough for immeasurable right? There has to be legit evidence of time travel through movement for the statement of transcending time and space to be a legit immeasurable speed feat?
Exactly. Thank you. This is pretty straightforward for me, so I do not really get why it is so hard to understand.For starters, Infinite speed is a character who's so fast, they move faster than time can flow period. The character perceives every finite speed object as completely frozen and it takes 0 time for them to react to any non finite speed object or to travel any finite speed distance. But they can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. And perception of time basically only flows when the infinite speed character lets it flow.
But Immeasurable speed is far beyond even that. They also perceive all infinite speed things as frozen, and they can also travel forward and backward in time at will. They can basically hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time and any period in between as casually as anyone can roll their eyes left or right. And this also means their reactions speeds are faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struct, or they can strike someone even before they launched in attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.
Another one that I saw was "world of darkness" they get their immesurable for going thro a void that had no time and space to beging withAnyway, given what ShiroyashaGinSan said earlier, should we downgrade the Guilty Gear and BlazBlue characters then? And if so, would somebody be willing to apply the changes please?
Just mention it cus the whole "being in a place where time and space does not exist will not give a rating"Isn't World of Darkness very high-tiered though? If a 1-A character has statements of transcending time, that tends to be more reliable than a tier 4 with such claims. However, I am not informed about the context.
Won't a 1-A Character get Irrelevant instead of Immeasurable anyway?Isn't World of Darkness very high-tiered though? If a 1-A character has statements of transcending time, that tends to be more reliable than a tier 4 with such claims. However, I am not informed about the context.
I would never expect Cal of all people make this comment...Here's a really good example of immeasurable speed:
Sonic Man (Archie Sonic turned into a robot by Eggman and Wily) moving through Flash Man's timestop explicitly through sheer speed.
Since you seem to now see the main issue I’m trying to point out, I’ll only focus on these bits so the thread doesn’t get anymore derailed by irrelevant stuff.Okay and for Immeasurable?
For immeasurable it requires the time part being wack.
... I think I see your point here now, my bad.
Yes and that’s exactly why I’m arguing higher dimensional space-time transcendence done freely should definitely qualify for immeasurable speeds
Going beyond time all together freely should be far superior to simply moving through time freely is what I’m trying to say here. Saying otherwise makes no sense.
People disagreed with that in the past iirc. I don't remember their reasons as I wasn't there, I can only say what the standards are now.
Nice job of putting words in my mouth. I’m not imposing anything here, I’m calling out something I see is a flaw that makes, as I said above, absolutely no sense and hasn’t been properly explained yet. You can’t say freely moving through time grants something that moving beyond it freely all together isn’t able to accomplish. Not without good reasoning, and so far, I haven’t seen this brought here.
Yeah I wasn't in those threads so I can't help you out with the why.