Immeasurable speed characters updating

[Theglassman12]

@Elizhaa so being natives in a realm that can make people time travel through sheer movement scales right? and other characters doing the same thing and fighting said natives would scale as well?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

@Iamunanimousinthat What does 2 mean that isn't covered by 1 or 3?

I believe 2 is for people who transcend or are unbounded by linear time and because of that can move anywhere and anywhen

 

[Agnaa]

That sounds exactly like 3.

But anyway, I don't think SCP has the key piece of evidence of actually moving through time physically, or having effects happen before the action.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Would by any chance, yukari, reimu, and marisa from touhou scale? They have this feat of moving through the past, present and future with sakuya's deflation world spellcard. Like Sakuya moves through it with her ability but reimu, marisa, etc don't. This likely isn't relevant to the thread so pardon me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

For number 3, the reason it was contested was because of characters like Superman (Pre-Crisis) don't get immeasurable speed since it's just regular time travel and he has finite reaction speeds.

 

[Theglassman12]

isn't pre-crisis superman also the same one who has the statement of surpassing the speed of light in order to time travel? or is that some other version of superman?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I think one of the requirements is being beyond/above linear time

 

[Ionliosite]

Note that a vague "beyond time" statement is different from being unbound by linear time, since while the former could mean anything depending on context, the latter implies the ability to move to the past and future with regular movement, which is what Immeasurable is by default.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That’s would obviously be treated on a case by case basis and isn’t really an umbrella standard for everyone.

Cases such as Hits “transcends time itself” statement for overcome time manipulation for example would be clearly different from other cases that are more straightforward.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Note that a vague "beyond time" statement is different from being unbound by linear time, since while the former could mean anything depending on context, the latter implies the ability to move to the past and future with regular movement, which is what Immeasurable is by default.

Sorry, yes that's what I mean I just didn't remember the word "unbound" so I just used beyond

 

[Agnaa]

If an attack affecting the past is all that's required for Immeasurable speed, wouldn't all Low 2-C and above characters inherently be Immeasurable? You need to be able to affect the entirety of a timeline, including the past and future, to be Low 2-C.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

If an attack affecting the past is all that's required for Immeasurable speed, wouldn't all Low 2-C and above characters inherently be Immeasurable? You need to be able to affect the entirety of a timeline, including the past and future, to be Low 2-C.

Not really affecting the past and more as in being able to travel to the past by sheer speed/ ur attacks being thrown from the past at ur enemy due to ur speed

Something like that

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There is something I am a bit confused on though and my bad if this was answered already.

How come existing outside or above time itself be worse than traveling through linear time with speed?

I also still want this to be answered, because as it stands I’m still a bit confused on it. And to make sure I’m clear about what I’m saying here, look at this diagram below.

This line represents an entire timeline. The past, present and then the future. This is all of time present within the universe.

Now from what the current standards are for immeasurable, being beyond linear time means freely traveling through time with sheer speed. Like going to the past or to the future with sheer speed. So that means, immeasurable characters would be traveling from one end of the arrow to the other end and vice versa freely.

Now what my question entails is about a character who doesn’t travel throughout the arrow represents time, but goes above the arrow entirely as a whole.

Shouldn’t this be a better example of immeasurable speed then?

 

[Rikimarox2]

Doesn't this technically make almost every tier 2 and above characters immeasurable?

 

[Agnaa]

Not really affecting the past and more as in being able to travel to the past by sheer speed/ ur attacks being thrown from the past at ur enemy due to ur speed

Something like that

Destroying a timeline does do that tho. Like I said.

 

[Eganergo]

You need to be able to affect the entirety of a timeline, including the past and future, to be Low 2-C.

No wait. Isn't destroying an infinite 3d universe or significant 4D enough for Low 2C? I mean, there are two kind of feats, one that destroy universe and one that destroy timeline. Both can be considered Low 2C, but are they equalized?

 

[Agnaa]

Infinite 3-D universe is only High 3-A. Significant 4-D requires affecting entire axes.

Though I guess I was too hasty in including those feats, those wouldn't be immeasurable, only constructs involving time would give immeasurable speed for their destruction.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Actually, another thing that is not that related, but wouldn't being able to destroy something infinite require infinite speed? ie destroying an infinite amount of timelines.

 

[Agnaa]

Actually, another thing that is not that related, but wouldn't being able to destroy something infinite require infinite speed? ie destroying an infinite amount of timelines.

I'd think so, if the method of destruction either involves physical movement or an ability that propagates throughout that space. If it was just EE over the entire area there's nothing really traveling at infinite speed for that.

 

[Antvasima]

Fiction is very inconsistent, and we cannot automatically scale speed from attack potency, especially given that most Low 2-C characters have received the rating due to scaling from destroying universal continuums, but for which timelines were never mentioned.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, being outside of time simply counts as moving in a timeless void or similar. It is not consistent enough to scale from.

 

[Everything12]

Actually, another thing that is not that related, but wouldn't be able to destroy something infinite require infinite speed? ie destroying an infinite amount of timelines.

Nope.

Also, attacking the Past by destroying the entire Timeline isn't Immeasurable either. That's simple a Range+AP feat and doesn't scale to Speed.

 

[Agnaa]

Why is attacking the past by destroying the timeline range + AP, when attacking the past without destroying the timeline speed? Shouldn't that simply be range too? i.e. range that stretches into the past?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, being outside of time simply counts as moving in a timeless void or similar. It is not consistent enough to scale from.

What about being outside time in the sense that your above it?

By “outside time” I don’t mean someone residing within a non-existent area.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why is attacking the past by destroying the timeline range + AP, when attacking the past without destroying the timeline speed? Shouldn't that simply be range too? i.e. range that stretches into the past?

This.

It makes absolutely no sense for an attack that reaches into the past but doesn’t destroy the timeline count as a speed feat

But an attack that encompasses the whole entire timeline itself be less than that.

It’s like saying an attack that covers a universe in seconds isn’t a speed feat but an attack that goes from one end of the universe to the other is.

 

[Antvasima]

Due to fiction being extremely inconsistent in this area.

In order to avoid severely inflated and misleading statistics, characters should actually be coherently treated as being able to move and/or attack through time via speed alone. Otherwise we would assign them a massively powerful ability that has never actually been remotely demonstrated or even hinted at.

@DontTalkDT and @AKM sama

Would you be willing to help me out here please?

-----

Anyway, this is severely derailing the purpose of this discussion.

I would greatly appreciate if we could strictly focus on evaluating whether or not the above listed characters qualify according to our current established standards. Thank you.

Also, this is a staff only discussion. Only non-staff members that have been specifically invited to comment here are allowed to do so. Everybody else should stop immediately.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I agree with Ant here. I feel like it's the same with light speed. Where technically, you get infinite energy when you go at the speed of light, but most of fiction doesn't take that into consideration, and outright ignores it. As such, we don't grant infinite shit to characters who can go at the speed of light, even tho they technically should. I'm pretty sure it's the same with immeasurable speed.

Anyways, I'll stop posting now ;p

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you Riki.

 

[Agnaa]

Well, with those standards it seems like SCP doesn't qualify, unless someone can bring out some good quotes supporting it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

We will also need cleanup help from our staff after we are done here.

 

[Crabwhale]

Magnus' daemon form gets it's speed from existing in the Warp, where time is non-linear and your dimensional make up means little at best to time and space being both complete jokes most of the time. Magnus' mere entrance into the Warp was creating new universes of thought, and entirely new concepts.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that non-linear time likely makes him qualify then.

 

[AKM sama]

By the way, the justifications being given in this thread should be better explained on the profiles themselves so that there is no confusion in the future.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima If I’m getting this right, if the realms have a legit showing of being able to time travel for anyone that resides or goes through it via sheer movement alone, does that count for immeasurable speeds or not?

 

[TheGatememer]

There is also Estark from DQ

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Sorry, I know I'm not a staff member. Delete my comment if I'm out of place.

But isn't using a space or realm to time travel via speed count as a time traveling device? From the other thread it was apparent that these immeasurable characters should be immeasurable by themselves only, and completely independent of any devices, (whether it be time machine or special ability or special physics of the world). Like if a character needs a special place to be immeasurable then they really aren't immeasurable it's just the space. And any character in that space would be immeasurable?

The way it seems from the other thread, the purpose of this thread is for knowledgeable members to show that a character is immeasurable by showing a scan or evidence of the character:

A. Whose attacks or actions have an effect before they even do them

B. can travel through time via sheer speed and not through any devices or special abilities

These characters need to be able to go anywhere and anywhen from anywhere and anywhen. And then that scan or information should be properly documented on the page to ward off confusion. Descriptions of the special physics and statements of transcendence are good to add to help explain, but we still need these characters specific feats to be clearly presented on the page.

 

[Comicgyal]

Blazblues immeasurable speed feats are supported quite a few times. However I’m unsure on Guilty Gear.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Iamunanimousinthat This thread isn't even a staff only thread, you don't need to apologize.

 

[Rikimarox2]

This thread isn't even a staff only thread, you don't need to apologize.

Also, this is a staff only discussion. Only non-staff members that have been specifically invited to comment here are allowed to do so. Everybody else should stop immediately.

It is tho :c

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Sorry, I know I'm not a staff member. Delete my comment if I'm out of place.

But isn't using a space or realm to time travel via speed count as a time traveling device? From the other thread it was apparent that these immeasurable characters should be immeasurable by themselves only, and completely independent of any devices, (whether it be time machine or special ability or special physics of the world). Like if a character needs a special place to be immeasurable then they really aren't immeasurable it's just the space. And any character in that space would be immeasurable?

The way it seems from the other thread, the purpose of this thread is for knowledgeable members to show that a character is immeasurable by showing a scan or evidence of the character:

A. Whose attacks or actions have an effect before they even do them

B. can travel through time via sheer speed and not through any devices or special abilities

These characters need to be able to go anywhere and anywhen from anywhere and anywhen. And then that scan or information should be properly documented on the page to ward off confusion. Descriptions of the special physics and statements of transcendence are good to add to help explain, but we still need these characters specific feats to be clearly presented on the page.

I think it would be threated the same as flash with the speed force

"Xyz, immeasurable In xyz"