Since most of the origins of creation recounted by Dr. Multiverse were false ideas manipulated by Pariah, the Light still came from the Great Darkness, but the Great Darkness was not the cause of the crises, for it was the belief that the darkness wanted everything to return into nothingness, it simply wants to engage with the Light above.
I still think "Crisis Cosmology" is the simplest and most direct, since this cosmology is largely tethered to and associated with the various Crisis events, and our other cosmologies do not interact with those events.
I am not against allowing the inclusion of certain parts of Grant's older work, but I would want to have it reflected in newer comics as well. He wrote about a lot of concepts in the 80s and 90s and abandoned most of it. I don't think it's in our best interest to make a sort of Frankenstein cosmology by attaching old abandoned ideas that never made it out of Animal Man, JLA or Doom Patrol.
Agreed. "Crisis Cosmology" seems fine to me. As for Morrison's older information, yeah, we add only the informations that aren't outdated or in contradiction with the newer stories. Those that actually fit with the newer informations.
Why?
that thread is about 1-A stuff
Ultima is aiming to change the standards for how we rate 1-A, which could potentially change the ratings of a lot of verses.
Maybe we should wait until that revision is complete before thinking about that?
Well, the fact that Overvoid is primarily the ultimate blank canvas surpassing everything has been established exclusively in Morrison's interviews rather than in the comics. In the comics, the Overvoid has been depicted as a conscious living void of immaculate perfection, beyond the Source Wall where thought itself ceases to be. It has been described as non-dual, but its relationship with the flaw is described as a duality defining existence and non-existence. Anyway, my point is that if we don't include most of Morrison's claims, there would be no notable contradictions with Williamson's approach to the DC Universe. I mean, if we made an exception with Morrison and Snyder's cosmologies despite the contradictions, then why not? Also, we shouldn't include Lucifer and Yahweh in this, Vertigo was more apart from DC and even though authors like Scott Snyder took the basis of Mike Carey's works and applied them into his cosmology, Vertigo doesn't fit in very well.
Lucifer was shown to be The Great Darkness during the latest Crisis event.
No, the Great Darkness only took the form of Lucifer, Trigon, The Upside-Down Man during its interaction with John Constantine during the last Crisis event. In any case, it doesn't matter since some information contradicting what we had a year earlier has been falsified. I am not saying that there is no contradiction but Williamson's cosmology is in direct continuity with the work of Scott Snyder, notably with Infinite Frontier, and he took the basis of the works of Morrison (Final Crisis/Multiversity) and Marv Wolfman (Crisis on Infinite Earths) and Allen Moore (Swamp Thing: American Gothic).
vsbattles.fandom.com
Presumably because we haven't gotten around to updating the profiles.
This very likely wouldn't qualify for the type of transcendence being discussed, as it's shown that one can ascend/descend through the layers of reality with relative ease.
I don't think that necessarily disqualifies The Presence. Everything in creation is a part of it's dream. Them being able to move up through all of creation doesn't really lessens that it's a dream/illusion in comparison to The Presence, who's beyond it all.
The fact that each layer is "deeper" dream is a defeater to this unless something specific says that the layer to the presence is qualitatively different.
The layer to the Presence would be the void itself or Mahapralaya. Something that is put squarely between the Presence and Creation. It drags all of creation down into the sea of brahma after the Kali Yuga cycle. A sleep that all things and beings must fall into when it's time for the sleep of brahma. This is before the Presence starts the whole process of creation over again by birthing duality from it's oneness and so on. All of this is seen in Doctor Fate(1988) issue 6 and Justice League Dark Issues 39-41.
I largely agree with Asterotheology here, but what is your reasoning for Vertigo being upgraded?
Thank you greatly for helping out.I have started a sandbox regarding the "Crisis Cosmology" of Morrison, Snyder, Tynion, Williamson.
Elizio33/Sandbox9
He's not saying it should be upgraded. It's already 1-C
Because Ultima is proposing that we ditch the idea that transcending dimensionality is somehow equivalent to one layer. At least people won't bash us so hard for "downplaying" DC to 1-C anymore.
