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Has a verdict been reached?
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Fate/Stay Night Servants Speed Upgrade
- Thread starter Alakabamm
- Start date
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Actually let me keep it short here.
I should likely make a separate thread discussing how disappearing from human vision should be calculated in general and discuss it with the whole calculation group. (it can then be put on the calculations page or a separate page) I will try to do so today or tomorrow.
The thing I criticize about the feat is that for instantly scaling the tower so fast that a human can not see it, it doesn't have to be in the stated timeframe. The timeframe can be longer (1 second for example) as long as the movement as such is still too fast for the people to be seen.
For short we have 2 facts. They climb the building and do it in a way that can not be seen. So $ \text{ can not be seen } \land \text{ reason for that is speed } \Rightarrow $ $ \text{ too short movement to be seen } \lor \text{ too fast to be seen } $
I should likely make a separate thread discussing how disappearing from human vision should be calculated in general and discuss it with the whole calculation group. (it can then be put on the calculations page or a separate page) I will try to do so today or tomorrow.
The thing I criticize about the feat is that for instantly scaling the tower so fast that a human can not see it, it doesn't have to be in the stated timeframe. The timeframe can be longer (1 second for example) as long as the movement as such is still too fast for the people to be seen.
For short we have 2 facts. They climb the building and do it in a way that can not be seen. So $ \text{ can not be seen } \land \text{ reason for that is speed } \Rightarrow $ $ \text{ too short movement to be seen } \lor \text{ too fast to be seen } $
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- Thread starter
- #85
Ah, so it's not the interval then.
If it's not the interval, the quote suggests it was the entire movement up the building that was unable to be seen. I agree that it depends on what frame we are talking about, but the frame here is the building.
Here it is again:
In the instant it takes them to move to the rooftop, they clash numerous times.
If there were anyone watching them from the ground, they would think it looks like pinball.
But then again, they cannot be perceived with the naked eye.
So in truth, they are beyond being unable to be seen by people standing near them. People can't even see them as blurs or "pinballs" from sufficiently far away to observe the entire series of movements on the tower.
If it's not the interval, the quote suggests it was the entire movement up the building that was unable to be seen. I agree that it depends on what frame we are talking about, but the frame here is the building.
Here it is again:
In the instant it takes them to move to the rooftop, they clash numerous times.
If there were anyone watching them from the ground, they would think it looks like pinball.
But then again, they cannot be perceived with the naked eye.
So in truth, they are beyond being unable to be seen by people standing near them. People can't even see them as blurs or "pinballs" from sufficiently far away to observe the entire series of movements on the tower.
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As I understand the quote the third sentence corrects the second. (note "but then again")
The second says, that viewing them the movement would look like pinball (because of the clashes). The third says that viewing them would actually not work, because they couldn't be seen that way.
So I don't really understand how you get from that quote the interpretation that their movement is too short and not just too fast to be seen.
The second says, that viewing them the movement would look like pinball (because of the clashes). The third says that viewing them would actually not work, because they couldn't be seen that way.
So I don't really understand how you get from that quote the interpretation that their movement is too short and not just too fast to be seen.
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- Thread starter
- #87
Well, I don't understand what you are saying in your last sentence. since I am actually saying that the movement is not short (it is the length of the building), but...
The third sentence corrects the second in saying that they are too fast to be seen even as pinballs by an outside observer, pinballs probably referring to them being seen as blurs. Hence, the entire movement was too fast to be seen, not that they were moving so little that it was unnoticeable.
The third sentence corrects the second in saying that they are too fast to be seen even as pinballs by an outside observer, pinballs probably referring to them being seen as blurs. Hence, the entire movement was too fast to be seen, not that they were moving so little that it was unnoticeable.
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I kinda understood the statement the same as Alakabamm did. They moved from the base of the building and had multiple clashes not unlike pinballs, but were too fast for anyone to really percieve them happening.
Imagine the horror of the people when the side of the building spontaniously combusts.
Imagine the horror of the people when the side of the building spontaniously combusts.
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Since their tracks were barely visible it took some time to get up. Enough for naked eye to detect clashes. Additionaly it was described how it looks for others: Rider became purple snake that enveloped the building after all.
Pinbal pattern is probalby eratic movement of Rider who has general superior speed while Saber has advantage in dashes. So actualy... Saber clibming up is her Prana Burst movement.
Pinbal pattern is probalby eratic movement of Rider who has general superior speed while Saber has advantage in dashes. So actualy... Saber clibming up is her Prana Burst movement.
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- Thread starter
- #92
"Enough for naked eye to detect clashes"
Naw, it explictly says their ascent can't be seen in the third sentence I posted.
Notice the "if" in the second sentence, implying people could not actually see them and that the narrator was just postulating.
Naw, it explictly says their ascent can't be seen in the third sentence I posted.
Notice the "if" in the second sentence, implying people could not actually see them and that the narrator was just postulating.
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Additionaly it states that only their tracks were barely visible (it could be their clashes which is only tracks that produce anything visible).
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I found another problem here. Powerscaling. Saber had average Agility of C during this one event. It means casual Ciel, Peak Kotomine and probably Miyako Arima would scale to this. Add here that Shiki can actualy hold his own for a little while vs Ciel... And other Shiki... Kishima is here too... As well as Arcuied with Sion.
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The funny thing... How could Nanaya Kiri fight Kishima with such powerscaling if Kiri outright said that his clan members can't dodge bullets.Alakabamm said:
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MSH reaction kitties (Len and White Len) are actualy more funny.
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Yeah, only the tracks, meaning the random wanton destruction that suddenly appears on the face of the building right?
If C-rank is at Mach 52, then going by the chart below, A-rank is 40% faster right?
Then A-rankers are Mach 72.8 and B-rankers are 15% higher, meaning Mach 59.8.
D-rankers are 33% slower than C-rank so Mach 34.84, and E-rankers are 66% slower, meaning Mach 17.68.
Fate Servants - Stat Rating
Did I math correctly or did I reinforce that I can't for the life of me, do numbers?
If C-rank is at Mach 52, then going by the chart below, A-rank is 40% faster right?
Then A-rankers are Mach 72.8 and B-rankers are 15% higher, meaning Mach 59.8.
D-rankers are 33% slower than C-rank so Mach 34.84, and E-rankers are 66% slower, meaning Mach 17.68.
Fate Servants - Stat Rating
Did I math correctly or did I reinforce that I can't for the life of me, do numbers?
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50/30 = 1,66 => 66% faster.
10/30 = 0,33 => 66% slower.
10/30 = 0,33 => 66% slower.
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Note this feat does not apply to True assassin or Zero assassin
Also the agility ranking is a combination of actual agiliy and speed, which is why the hassan's have a high stat in it, but are actually slower than most servants
Also the agility ranking is a combination of actual agiliy and speed, which is why the hassan's have a high stat in it, but are actually slower than most servants
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So are we fine with the upgrades or not, because the OBD implemented their upgrades on their profiles.
We should do the same.
We should do the same.
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