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I mean... the same thing can be said of you.It's because of a handful of the people who gravitate these threads are constantly obstinate and difficult. It's similar to TR.
No offense but you're pretty stonewalley on things
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I mean... the same thing can be said of you.It's because of a handful of the people who gravitate these threads are constantly obstinate and difficult. It's similar to TR.
nah, not mineThe fact that any nasu thread ends up with something entirely different being discussed because everything doesn't make sense is beautiful.
Makes a little more sense. I misread.the argument isn't that they're Servant level straight up, it's that they scale to 10% Servant level.
if he makes multiple statements affirming the same thing, i dont see how theyc ant be taken into considerationMakes a little more sense. I misread.
Still, Nasu statements are not super reliable. So I guess put me down for neutral.
innocent until proven guilty imoStill, Nasu statements are not super reliable. So I guess put me down for neutral.
Other than the FGO statement, what island level feats have servants done?
taken from the verse page
nasu wog has the unique property of being disregarded even without contradictioninnocent until proven guilty imo
It's not Nasu specific. WoG is always limited in value compared to canon featsnasu wog has the unique property of being disregarded even without contradiction
yet we have no real reason to reject said WoG in this caseIt's not Nasu specific. WoG is always limited in value compared to canon feats
We have a great reason: None of these characters have any feats that get them anywhere close to that.yet we have no real reason to reject said WoG in this case
feats aren't the only way to grant scalingWe have a great reason: None of these characters have any feats that get them anywhere close to that.
Your opinion on what seems like an extreme leap doesn't change anything. What matters is the internal consistency in what we're told and shown, and there's enough to argue that maybe Kuzuki and these people being that strong isn't a random one-off thing. Nasu even restates the same value when he says average third-tier noble mages are 10x below people who can fight servants.I'm aware, but this would be an extreme upgrade backed by nothing in the source material. It's not reasonable to think that somehow literally any feat between 9-A and 6-C was conspicuously absent from any of these characters' portrayals. He likely wasn't attempting to be very precise with his statement of a "tenfold increase" and we're giving it way more credit than it deserves.
Well, it changes my vote to "disagree" but I don't anticipate changing your mind.Your opinion on what seems like an extreme leap doesn't change anything
Yeah, I wouldn't take that literally either.Nasu even restates the same value when he says average third-tier noble mages are 10x below people who can fight servants.
well noble mage bloodlines are much stronger than regular mage bloodlines on averageYour opinion on what seems like an extreme leap doesn't change anything. What matters is the internal consistency in what we're told and shown, and there's enough to argue that maybe Kuzuki and these people being that strong isn't a random one-off thing. Nasu even restates the same value when he says average third-tier noble mages are 10x below people who can fight servants.
Actually, the wording of Nasu answer is a bit different than that. It's not straightforward, but it can be basically divided into two parts - first, Medea/Caster, because she worried about her "Master", gave him 10x more "PUFF than an ordinary human". Important here is that there is no mention of strength, power or something similar. This is important because of how we have been said Reinforcement works. The second part then explains that, as Kuzuki was, base, far above "an ordinary human", the result was something that impressed even Medea/Caster.The statement seems to say that Caster intended to amplify his power to ten times of a normal human, but since Kuzuki was already far above normal humans, he was strong enough to beat up Saber. The safest reading, in my opinion, is that Kuzuki got a 10x amp which makes him Servant level. Servants are currently scaled to a value of 962 Teratons (Large Island level+), making base Kuzuki's AP 96.2 Teratons (Island level+).
As to who it would scale to, we do have a statement comparing base Kuzuki to some of the characters in Fate/stay night (which is used on the current profiles):
~ Comptiq 2007-11 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A
Furthermore, this should scale to other mages like Rin as well:
~ Dengeki Hime 02/2006, Type-Moon Double Maniax - [Fate] Dream Battle - Rin vs Kotomine
So anyone who gets their 9-A rating from Kirei or Rin would be upgraded to 6-C+.
There's a problem with the scaling as a Magus and actual power that Nasu gives.Oh yeah I found this too lol, average third-rate noble Mage is also 1/10th Servant level
Q: It has been said that a certain Aozaki cannot even defeat a serious Caster, is this "certain Aozaki" Aoko Aozaki? Is this an assessment based on Aoko using True Magic?
A: "A certain Aozaki" includes both Aoko and Touko. In a magecraft battle by modern standards, a "magus" who is capable of defeating a serious Caster does not exist.
I blame the trying to scale it as a pure power/DBZ-like setting, when power itself is sometimes the least important. The interactions of what Nasu calls Advantages make this become non-sensical too fast and too obviously.It's because of a handful of the people who gravitate these threads are constantly obstinate and difficult. It's similar to TR.
Kiritsugu, the guy with the bullet that literally short-circuits anything with magic flow and is an ignore defense/ignore all/****-you-button?still a island level feat though
I don't even think it's the interviews themselves that are a problem most of the time, even though Nasu has given some very... awkward answer, let's put it that way, but the translation/interpretation of them.Yeah, Nasu interviews should be taken with a grain of salt unless we get proper stuff in canon supporting it.
^also, the einzbern homunculi are equal or stronger than servants, and bazett fought with liz
Yet, the only Einzbern homunculus who showed any capacity whatsoever of actually fighting a Servant was Filia - while possesed by a literal goddess.
Q: What's Leysritt's arm-wrestling rank in the world of Fate?Yet, the only Einzbern homunculus who showed any capacity whatsoever of actually fighting a Servant was Filia - while possesed by a literal goddess.
I actually think Filia was the only one NOT one-shot of the Einz Homunculi... (vs. Servants, but memory may be playing tricks on me on this one)
Even little miss Wishgranter Illya was basically one-shot. And okay, that was vs Gil, but really... does anyone think Herakles is weaker than Illya? Because, given the showings of Emiya vs Herakles and Saber vs Herakles, we can pretty reliably say Illya would be one-shot just as easily by any one of those.
Now put the Rank 1 arm-wrestler vs Connor McGregor in a cage... and you understand why that means literally nothing in an actual fight.Q: What's Leysritt's arm-wrestling rank in the world of Fate?
A: Leysritt's arm-wrestling... is about an even match with Rider using Monstrous Strength? Rank value is about B-.
Now put the Rank 1 arm-wrestler vs Connor McGregor in a cage... and you understand why that means literally nothing in an actual fight.
"Just because you are correct (as in, the quote you give is a true statement of Nasu) doesn't mean you are right (as in, what you are implying with said statement)."
Saber loses in the arm-wrestling vs Shirou and Rin.
Also Saber:
Well a guy with E-Rank strength kept up in a battle involving multiple people with C and A-rank strength. Yes. I'm talking about Edison.well nasu gives a value to leysritt's strength, being b-
No, he just isn't.well nasu gives a value to leysritt's strength, being b-
well liz's signature weapon is one so heavy, that even a lot of servants would be better off using hand to hand combat.No, he just isn't.
He's answering a question about arm-wrestling and begins the answer with "Leysritt arm-wrestling".
Even the Rank, the translation completely forgets about the "能力値的" in the original answer, and just says Rank B-, for some reason.
That's a different thing.well liz's signature weapon is one so heavy, that even a lot of servants would be better off using hand to hand combat.
Well a guy with E-Rank strength kept up in a battle involving multiple people with C and A-rank strength. Yes. I'm talking about Edison.
YepAnastasia lifting Babbage and running with it above her head as if he was as light as a feather
If in Nasuverse jokes are cannon, Parameters are the joke
what other parameter could he be referring to here?That's a different thing.
I'm not saying Leysritt isn't clearly far stronger than any normal human.
But it's a misinterpretation of the phrase, given, derived partially from a rough translation, to say that Nasu is saying Leysritt STRENGTH parameter is Rank B-.
I dunnowhat other parameter could he be referring to here?
None. It's refering to her arm-wrestling. As i said, it's not really implicit, the topic marker literally marks that explictly. The part after the "?" doesn't have anything marked as topic because the topic was marked before - Leysritt's Arm-Wrestling.what other parameter could he be referring to here?
Disagree with this as everyone else outlined and plus iirc the original statement said Kuzuki got amped ten times to regular human or something so that alone debunks the OP