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Some Fate Additions (Mainly Sakura and apply past crts)

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This thread is to apply some past revisions to profiles that were forgotten and add some things to Sakura.

So currently Sakura and Rin speed justification is this:
Speed: Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic Reactions and Attack Speed (Kept up with Rin and can tag Servants, confident that she could beat Rider
Speed: Subsonic with Massively Hypersonic Reactions (Can fight a casual Caster and shoot down some of her spells, and can take her off guard and defeat her in close combat when reinforced by magic)
However after the last speed thread servants were upgraded to Relativistic+ to FTL, so the rating of both should be changed to that, as it was admited in the general thread itself that they were just forgotten when applying the revision (something comprensively considering how there were literally hundreds of profiles affected by that change), so this is a really simple update.

For the same reason Kirei need to be updated, same with Bazett and Kiritsugu (amped obviously) who both fight Kotomine.
Not really a change to the profiles, is just that now the Mash calc which give a concrete value for the FTL rating of servants got accepted (thank to me asking the MVP @Dalesean027 to evaluate it after months) so they now officially scale to 3.15c. The only thing needed would be to link this in the verse page and Mash profile.
So as admitted by Migue himself he forgot to continue applying the last ls revision to servants (again, because there are literally more than three hundred profiles affected by this, which is crazy, even more because almost each month the franchise drop new characters and servants) so the purpose for this thread is to update the profiles, either with just the Class M calc or with the recent valentine feat of servant Kukulcan compressing 3 million tons of cacao which should scale to servants in general because servant Kukulcan stats aren't really good, so this thread should decide if they only get updated to Class M or get upgraded to Class G.
Quite simple, with her magic she can restrict servants like Heracles itself (though at the end by sheer rage and desire to fight for Illya he could free himself)
Another simple thing, the profile itself recognize that her magic is the Hollow element (should be changed to Void element since it seems that way is how it's currently translated) or Imaginary Number (one of her Craft Essences straight up call it Imaginary Number Attribute and say how she could never separate from it):
She has an affinity of Hollow or Imaginary Numbers
So as such I propose to give her the hax that come with it (which were accepted here and applied to the other Imaginary Numbers users, who btw literally use Sakura existence as basis for their vessel):
Existence Erasure, Deconstruction, Information Manipulation, Data Manipulation (Have an natural affinity for the Hollow element, also know as Imaginary Numbers, which erases an object's existence from reality, causes existential collapse and conversion into unfixed random numbers, and deprives information and data of all meaning)
Chaos Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Illusion Creation (The Imaginary Number Space environment, which is made of Imaginary Numbers, is like the primordial chaos, and the place where innumerable curses and delusions flourish and is misobserved through illusions by those existing in reality. Described as a void space, a nothingness where time is meaningless)
Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Vector Manipulation (Imaginary Number Space is a higher dimensional plane, where "direction, distance, time" can't be defined normally, and which exists on the negative vector. The Imaginary Number Space can be used to invert cause and effect)
Status Effect Inducement, Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation (Imaginary Numbers can induce paralysis, blindness, and the mind shutting down)
Temperature Manipulation (Imaginary Numbers can change the temperature of the body to be cold)
Subjective Reality, Immersion (Able to manipulate the boundary between Real Number (Reality) and Imaginary Number (Unreality), thus allowing her to evade attacks that are rooted in reality, can also imprison the target within the Imaginary Number Space), Physics Manipulation (Imaginary Number Space and Real Space have different physical laws)
To note though is that she at this point don't really master her Void element so the more advanced applications should probably be labeled as likely, though is also true that at the end of the story she began to train to master it with Medusa and we are actually show how she eventually reach her full potential mastering it, so unless my later proposal for a key separation is accepted she shouldn't really get the likely instead of just go full one.

In the case of Tiamat is even more simple, her black mud is an Imaginary Number Space, on top of the fact that Kingprotea is made from her, so she should get all of this. And there are likely more characters that should get this, as mentioned by Crimson himself in the original thread, from which the first one that come to mind would be Kama and Parvati (literally possess Sakura body) for example (specially her summer version, heck the point of why she is said to be more non-existent than normal is because the strengthening of her Void element, but her summer version still don't have a profile as the event will come to na in August), so if more characters that scale are brought we can add the haxs to them.
Through all of heavens feel Dark Sakura consistently use the servants she corrupted to fight (Artoria Alter to fight Heracles, Heracles to fight Shirou, Alter to protect the cave at the end of the route, etc), so they should be listed as optional equipment if not straight up fully.
She should had different keys between her Dark Sakura self and Current Sakura, the reasons are simple, her entire weakness section is based on her corrupted version:
Sakura lacks fighting experience and is an incompetent magus. The crest worms constantly consume her magical energy; thus, without the Holy Grail, she barely has the energy to cast spells. The Grail gradually corrupts her psyche and overwrites her soul with the data of absorbed Servants as they die. As Dark Sakura, she is overconfident and shortsighted. Moreover, she cannot retain her composure while at a disadvantage.
Her Dark Self was able to summon and control the servants she corrupted, her current self have trained with Medusa to master her Void element (something that she apparently was able to do based in the Imaginary Around Craft Essence) and possess combat experience.
 
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Meant to put the Mash calc on the page a while back and really just forgot lol, also I will be making a thread for Masters and Combat mages in the future so you should wait on that. Everything else seems to be perfectly fine
 
Meant to put the Mash calc on the page a while back and really just forgot lol, also I will be making a thread for Masters and Combat mages in the future so you should wait on that. Everything else seems to be perfectly fine
Mash calc was never accepted, before this crt I needed to purposely go and ask a calc member for evaluation. And the last thread was months ago, so I don't see any problem to update the mentioned masters in the op as they scaled to servants both based on their feats and current justifications.
 
Mash calc was never accepted, before this crt I needed to purposely go and ask a calc member for evaluation. And the last thread was months ago, so I don't see any problem to update the mentioned masters in the op as they scaled to servants both based on their feats and current justifications.
Was pretty sure it got evaluated at the end of the very first speed thread I did, but sure knock yourself out not like it changes too much.
 
Yeah still don't know why the have flat FTL instead of Rel+ With FTL when all of them scale back to servants.
Because tsukihime scales to hisui laser ftl feat.While servants have the whole anti feat of servants cannot cross speed of light statement from bb.despite the fact that daa members should be comparable to servants.
 
Because tsukihime scales to hisui laser ftl feat.While servants have the whole anti feat of servants cannot cross speed of light statement from bb.despite the fact that daa members should be comparable to servants.
Problem is, is that if you look at their justifications, most if not all of them scale back to servants in the first place. Ciel, Zepia, Arcuied, Aoko, Sion etc all of them scale back to our servant ratings and when I made the OG speed thread it was agreed that, that's where everyone would scale...so like why?
 
Through all of heavens feel Dark Sakura consistently use the servants she corrupted to fight (Artoria Alter to fight Heracles, Heracles to fight Shirou, Alter to protect the cave at the end of the route, etc), so they should be listed as optional equipment if not straight up fully.
Idk If i fully agree with this just based on this sole reasoning. Masters get contracted with their Servants for the entire Grail War, and thus Shirou has Artoria for the entire VN, but we don't give him Artoria as Standard/Optional Equipment, unless you also intend to do that with every Master in Fate. I don't see how this is much different from a character using mind control on a character and having them on their side for a bit, and I'm pretty sure we don't give Lelouch all the people he's Geassed as Equipment. At best I can see Optional Equipment, but even that I feel might warrant some discussion on how we treat characters with mind control/corruption controlling other characters and whether or not they should get them as equipment. It's a weird area that I don't know exactly how to treat
 
Idk If i fully agree with this just based on this sole reasoning. Masters get contracted with their Servants for the entire Grail War, and thus Shirou has Artoria for the entire VN, but we don't give him Artoria as Standard/Optional Equipment, unless you also intend to do that with every Master in Fate. I don't see how this is much different from a character using mind control on a character and having them on their side for a bit, and I'm pretty sure we don't give Lelouch all the people he's Geassed as Equipment. At best I can see Optional Equipment, but even that I feel might warrant some discussion on how we treat characters with mind control/corruption controlling other characters and whether or not they should get them as equipment. It's a weird area that I don't know exactly how to treat
The difference here is that she absorb servants with her shadows and summon them later, is literally how Saber disappeared and then later on come directly from her shadows to fight heracles and repeat the cycle.

Though I honestly also believe that masters should have their servants listed as equipment but this isn't a thread to discuss that.
 
All of this seems fine to apply yeah

Sakura does have the servants in her, and just kinda spits them out basically, so ig her having them as equipment isn't too bad.

As for the LS, I'd go with class M, the way that Kukulkan scene went seems to imply it's something only she can do, with Archetype Earth actually saying as much, that it'd be a chocolate only Kukulkan could create, and then she compresses the 3 million cacao and uses a solar storm on it or whatever
 
All of this seems fine to apply yeah

Sakura does have the servants in her, and just kinda spits them out basically, so ig her having them as equipment isn't too bad.

As for the LS, I'd go with class M, the way that Kukulkan scene went seems to imply it's something only she can do, with Archetype Earth actually saying as much, that it'd be a chocolate only Kukulkan could create, and then she compresses the 3 million cacao and uses a solar storm on it or whatever
Fair enough.
 
Coming here to add something relevant to this thread :
Manaka should also have her "massively hypersonic" tier replaced with the current ones, since it's outdated.
She scales to Brynhildr who is "Relativistic+ with FTL reactions and combat speed".
 
Did you ask some staff members to evaluate this ? It is rather unanimous and straightforward, so we just need their approval now don't we ?
 
afaik we still don't accept Excalibur as light speed, so if you want that Iskandar calc to be valid, you gotta make that its own CRT
After the speed crts we actually accept that the laser types NPs/attacks are legit speed light (Artoria itself is one of the proof used in the past speed crt), futhermore a calc member accepted the calc and Excalibur moving at light speed with the reasonings given in the blog itself (which were various btw), so no, there is no need to make an additional crt for that.
 
After the speed crts we actually accept that the laser types NPs/attacks are legit speed light (Artoria itself is one of the proof used in the past speed crt), futhermore a calc member accepted the calc and Excalibur moving at light speed with the reasonings given in the blog itself (which were various btw), so no, there is no need to make an additional crt for that.
Calc member accepting it does unironically nothing. Calc members check the math, their acceptance has no impact on if the feat itself is valid, whether it be due to being an outlier or any other such complications.
 
Calc member accepting it does unironically nothing. Calc members check the math, their acceptance has no impact on if the feat itself is valid, whether it be due to being an outlier or any other such complications.
They also check if the reasons behind a math is also correct, like if a lightning, light, blackhole, etc meet the wiki criteria for such things, is due to that that there exist many calcs that get rejected if a calc member consider that the logic behind is incorrect or the criteria of the wiki isn't meet.

Also, what the hell are you talking about outliers and such where there already were threads addressing such things and the dozen of light speed feats (which again, Artoria moving at near light speed was used as one of such reasonings, same with Excalibur). This isn't anything new or inconsistent at all, if you have a problem with it then you need to make a crt to downgrade things.
 
After the speed crts we actually accept that the laser types NPs/attacks are legit speed light (Artoria itself is one of the proof used in the past speed crt), futhermore a calc member accepted the calc and Excalibur moving at light speed with the reasonings given in the blog itself (which were various btw), so no, there is no need to make an additional crt for that.
I asked Crimson on discord about this, and he seems to disagree, so you seem to have misunderstood something
 
Whew… I’ll give my thoughts on this later. Just finished my report for my Masters project, and my brain needs to cool off. But I’ll give my thoughts on this and stay followed on this for now.
 
Okay... Back from getting all the sleep I lost back.

So... Yeah. Everything in the OP I agree. Optional Equipment for Dark Sakura can be a bit murky of an area, but I feel like you can argue Rider Medusa should be Standard Equipment to Normal Sakura (her Heaven's Feel self at least) since unlike almost all Masters with their Servants in the Fate series, she actually explicitly keeps her in that route.

For Servant LS. since as said above the Kukulkan feat is something only she can do, everyone else would scale to the Jeanne plane feat. I'll get back to applying the revisions since they were accepted long ago and now that I have actual free time.
 
Okay... Back from getting all the sleep I lost back.

So... Yeah. Everything in the OP I agree. Optional Equipment for Dark Sakura can be a bit murky of an area, but I feel like you can argue Rider Medusa should be Standard Equipment to Normal Sakura (her Heaven's Feel self at least) since unlike almost all Masters with their Servants in the Fate series, she actually explicitly keeps her in that route.

For Servant LS. since as said above the Kukulkan feat is something only she can do, everyone else would scale to the Jeanne plane feat. I'll get back to applying the revisions since they were accepted long ago and now that I have actual free time.
Thanks. About Medusa being equipment to normal Sakura, I feel that would be better left to a future crt addressing if masters should have their servants as equipment (either standard or optional), this one is just specifically talking about Dark Sakura since she summon her corrupted servants.

And just to confirm, since it was accepted the Iskandar calc can indeed be used right?

Think you could ping someone like Crimson or some staff to evaluate the thread?
 
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