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Examining RWBY scaling for high tier characters

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Matthew Schroeder said:
Yeah the "outlier" discussion is heavily derailing the thread.
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I agree. The storm discussion as well.

Should I remove the comments?
 
I don't see what 3 staff have really done other than say stuff that already has been discussed just to prevent any changes from happening. If you're going to discard author intent for your own assumptions then what's the point of debating this? It's literally just 'I don't care what you all think, I'm right because ___.'
 
Me, Damage, Gargoyle, Ricsi, Desmond, Rebuble, Kalitas, Rusty, Jinx, Sigurd, Kuul, Dziga, Zen, Regis, Gilga

Neutral:

Ryu

In Opposition:

Weekly, Matt, Maverik, DDM, Arrogant
 
@Regis

No, Matt has made some pretty clear and logical points. Also, author intent is a terrible argument, please don't make it as it hurts my own argument, which doesn't use that, just the context of the scenes regarding the statements.

At this rate I think it's just a different as to how we perceive the statements themselves, which I feel isn't something that needs to be drawn out more.
 
Vastly above the peeps due to the fact they use magic. They don't need dust, or semblance. They can use the elements. Which makes them pretty powerful. Everything else scales to physicals they do, except that storm. Powerful isn't just, I have more AP. It can be But your overall ability.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I like how yall are keeping score like the majority automatically makes revisions happe
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I am not in support of that, just to clarify. I am closing the grace specifically to await more input.

I am keeping score for simplicity, and only after the debate has cooled down.

I agree, however, that we are beginning to argue circularly, and little new evidence has been brought forward. Hence why I suggest awaiting more input.
 
@Art You...you do know that literally every maiden we've seen so far has used both Dust and Raven has used her semblance right?
 
Matt is correct.

Maybe we shoudl try and find a compromise that would satisfy both sides?

Sadly, your argument, Regis, applies both ways. I can say "X revision gets accepted because there are more fans for this verse" just as easily as "X revision gets accepted because more admins like it".

We need to disscuss calmly, and reach an agreement.
 
So should it just go in circles? Both of them tbink they are right. Putting it to a vote does suck, but its done all the time here. So it gotta be used in this situation too
 
What is a compromise here anyway? OP pointed out that the justifications given aren't enough and I doubt that you can compromise on that without bringing new evidence, which hasn't happened here.
 
Guys, stop. It is neither an appeal to majority system or an appeal to authority.

We argue, exchange ideas, and reach a conclusion. It can take long, but it benefits both sides in the end.

Spamming "Majority Rules" isn't debating, which is what CRTs operate on.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Desmond253 said:
share the link please I don't feel like diging through entire episodes this late at night
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I linked the scenes alongside commentary in these posts. Read them:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2017085#186

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2017085#212
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Okay so lets break this down;

Volume 4 Chapter 1 Salem Says: "Tryian I want you to Continue your hunt for the spring maiden" Salem's group clearly has not found the spring maiden which means Tyrian is "hunting" aka finding the maiden not fighting her.

Volume 5 Chapter 1 Lionheart specifically mentions "Bandit Tribes" not maidens there is nothing in the statement or any of the following statments made by Qrow that suggets they plan on fighting a maiden at all.

Volume 5 Chapter 9: Watts is more concerned with getting in and out as quietly as possible, you can clearly tell from his nonchalant tone of voice that he doesn't consider qrow to be that much of a threat rather that he'll be able to alert the rest of the school before they can take him down.

Volume 3 Chapter 7: Qrow doesn't land a single hit on any of these people hell cinder smirks at him before launching one attack to distract him before leaving. What about this scene would imply that Qrow should scale to a half-maiden, the fact that they left, why would Cinder smirk at an opponent who is a threat, would she not be enraged that Qrow ruined her plan. Her facial expresions do not match what you are trying to imply

Volume 1 Chapter 1: Neither Cinder nor Glynda are using Magic, Glynda does not have any magic at all and we can clearly see Cinder using the dust in her clothes to power her fireballs meaning that Cinder is going easy on them otherwise she would just use her half-maiden powers and kill Gylnda.

Volume 5 Chapter 11: This whole scene sounds like the systimatic assasination of the huntsman of haven. What exactly implys that these unnamed huntsman that we have never seen or heard about are equal in strength to qrow and therefore should scale to him? Should we scale Jaune to Cinder because she didn't instantly nuke him? No where in this fight are any of the character who actually have maiden powers are actually using them to defeat their opponents.

These scenes used to justify the scaling fo various characters seems to ignore that facial expressions, the tone of voice, These subtle movements taken place during the fights and ignore the objectives the villians are trying to achieve.

If Tyrian was going to kill a maiden then Salen would have told him to kill the maiden.

If Lionheart planned to fight a maiden he would have at the minimum found a descrete way of mentioning it to Qrow.

If Watts was really worried about Qrow being able to fight all of them he would have taken a forcful tone with Cinder and Raven.

If Cinder considered Qrow to be her equal she would have had a shocked, or and engraded, or a frighten facel expression, not a smirk

If Cinder was actually using her maiden she wouldn't have taken the time to activate her dust.
 
Leo is a coward, thats the entire point of why he didnt tell Qrow anything

He was trying to not escalate the already tense situation like the intelligent person he is

If Cinder considered Qrow to be her equal she would have had a shocked, or and engraded, or a frighten facel expression, not a smirk

If Cinder was actually using her maiden she wouldn't have taken the time to activate her dust.

Cinder WAS going to nuke Jaune and very easily at that, she was literally toying with him the entire time
 
But everyone has said what already needs to be said. What more is there's to say? If you disagree with voting superiority then make a rule change. But of course, you'll have to deal with that one guy that is against something, and the change ends up not happening at all because of one guy think so he is right as opposed to the majority. Not saying he's wrong tho. That's how this wiki works from what I seen
 
No, I am aware that my or Matt's argument can be wrong.

I would like to explore alternatives in order to bring fresh air to the debate, as nothing seems to be being introduced. It seems far better as both sides have reached a stalemate.

man, I'm regretting keeping a tally
 
Alright, have a good one. I'll try and keep the thread under wraps, and if I can't control it, I'll temporarily close it.

I have an idea which could help for a compromise, let me get it ready and post it.
 
Except sometimes, majority is all quantity and no quality. 1000 * 0 is still 0, which is less than 2 * 1 which is 2. Still, Matt and Weekly making sense, if physical and magic attacks are used interchangeably, then magic scales to striking strength and durability. It's no different then many who've tried so desperately to downgrade pretty much every JRPG character in existence and failed miserably. Sephiroth's 4-B feat, or Fire Emblem's Town level Meteor are 100% legitimate.

With that being said, Cinder and Glynda trading blows does look like a legit power scaling scene as well. Though it's more important that we stop fighting I agree.
 
That is correct, DDR, although it disheartens me that you're implying I'm not making any points or sense, and it's a bit of an association fallacy to compare my posts to that if that is what you're implying. I whoalheartedly agree on the magic scaling to AP part, although we've said that is off-topic.

I feel like "trading" is a bit much for the exchange between the two. Glynda blocking one attack that Ruby also survived doesn't help the case. Neither landed hits on eachother throughout the fight, and I've discussed how Cinder and her groupie wouldn't have wanted to draw attention by going all out, which would have likely destroyed their ship.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Leo is a coward, thats the entire point of why he didnt tell Qrow anything
He was trying to not escalate the already tense situation like the intelligent person he is

If Cinder considered Qrow to be her equal she would have had a shocked, or and engraded, or a frighten facel expression, not a smirk

If Cinder was actually using her maiden she wouldn't have taken the time to activate her dust.

Cinder WAS going to nuke Jaune and very easily at that, she was literally toying with him the entire time
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Leo is a coward so he would try to keep up the act as long as possible, that doesn't stop him from telling Qrow they might have to fight a maiden.

That tension was gone the second Raven said she wanted to kill Qrow, shocked is not the same thing as tense

Thank you for proving my point

Thank you again

Why is Jaune still alive then?
 
The point is, people here use the majority thing all the time. Both CRT and vs. So you can sit here and say, majority rule doesn't determine it when it does it 99.99% other scenarios. Personally, I agree with whoever is right, is right. That's what I believe in, but I dislike hypocrisy and contradictions.
 
Arte

While I understand your sentiment, crying majority isn't helping the debate, as one still exists.

If I hear one more majority argument, I will temporarily close this. They are only working to derail the existing debate. Desmond and DDR, for example, are bringing up new points.
 
Desmond253 said:
Leo is a coward so he would try to keep up the act as long as possible, that doesn't stop him from telling Qrow they might have to fight a maiden.

That tension was gone the second Raven said she wanted to kill Qrow, shocked is not the same thing as tense

Why is Jaune still alive then?
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Yes actually it does, its the entire reason the whole final confrontation at the end of Volume 5 happened in the first place.

He was trying to keep a conflict from happening in the first place

Because Ruby freaked out and used Silver Eyes on Cinder, did you actually watch the scene...?
 
I only said it casue this debate is tiring. Pros definitely scale to maidens. But maidens don't scale physically to that storm. That's what I think.
 
I wasn't referring to you Dargoo. I do at least see where you're coming from. And you do seem fairly polite. It was more so what a few others were saying; most notable KuuIchigo. Was pointing out that just because the majority favors one argument, doesn't automatically mean is the final decision. There's also the fact that Hazel was considered a threat to Ozpin to consider.
 
That's totally fine to say. Just don't try and dismiss what other people have to say just because they are seemingly outnumbered.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There's also the fact that Hazel was considered a threat to Ozpin to consider.
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To be fair, Ozpin said that in his child-form, which wouldn't directly scale to a Maiden as he is significantly weakened, and this is implying Hazel scales to the Half-Fall Maiden.

Thanks for understanding, and even though you didn't bring it up, I do apologize if I myself have gotten heated.
 
I mean the fact that he knew how Hazel fought and how dangerous he was and how his damn semblance works implies if not outright confirms that he and Hazel fought in the past at some point
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I mean the fact that he knew how Hazel fought and how dangerous he was and how his damn semblance works implies if not outright confirms that he and Hazel fought in the past at some point
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How so? And I'd need evidence as to how Oz would see him as a thread in his old form.
 
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