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Examining RWBY scaling for high tier characters

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Oz knew literally everything about Hazel, he knew how Hazel fought to a T, he knew exactly what Hazel's semblance was and how it works and how it affects his body, and he knew that Oscar couldnt fight Hazel on his own so he needed to take over in order to fight him. Oz never trained Hazel, there's no way he could have found out all of this about Hazel unless he fought Hazel before.
 
Also, I'd like to bring forward "8-B, likely High 7-C" as the tier for the aforementioned characters.

I feel like there is enough evidence for a "likely" via statements, however I don't think there is enough to directly scale the APs and call it a day.

Both arguments are satisfied, in some respects. And I understand if this isn't acceptable, just bringing up a new idea.
 
There's also the fact that Hazel is fully aware of Oz's ability to reincarnate, his statement that he will actively try to kill Oz every time he reincarnates, and the fact that even before Oscar reached Mantle Hazel encountered him and suspected that it was Oz in Oscar
 
Considering Hazel is working for Salem, it's far more likely she just informed him about Oz as opposed to them fighting before.

Oz knew literally everything about Hazel, he knew how Hazel fought to a T, he knew exactly what Hazel's semblance was and how it works and how it affects his body, and he knew that Oscar couldnt fight Hazel on his own so he needed to take over in order to fight him. Oz never trained Hazel, there's no way he could have found out all of this about Hazel unless he fought Hazel before.

Oz knew Hazel's sibling, it takes less assumptions that he learned about him through her than him fighting Oz.

I reiterate that this is about him fighting Old!Oz, where there is little to no evidence to support.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Desmond253 said:
Leo is a coward so he would try to keep up the act as long as possible, that doesn't stop him from telling Qrow they might have to fight a maiden.

That tension was gone the second Raven said she wanted to kill Qrow, shocked is not the same thing as tense

Why is Jaune still alive then?
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Yes actually it does, its the entire reason the whole final confrontation at the end of Volume 5 happened in the first place.
He was trying to keep a conflict from happening in the first place

Because Ruby freaked out and used Silver Eyes on Cinder, did you actually watch the scene...?
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What about the finally confrontation stopped Lionheart from telling Qrow they might have to fight the spring maiden. Telling Qrow that piece of information does not reveal Salem's plans in anyway

Expect again the tension was gone by the time he made the statement about Qrow there is no need to keep the peace when there is no risk of either side fighting one another.

Let me rephrase it, Why didn't Cinder instantly nuke Jaune, why even bother toying with him all? my point in that statement is why are we using Qrow as the person to scale all of the other pro-huntsmen to when he has never fought against the maiden power.

The only characters we can say that has fought against a maiden without magic powers and Pyrrha and Ozpin, if you want to scale to someone scale to either of them.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
See now i'd believe that if Oz didnt know everything he does about Hazel
Click to expand...
Oz knew Hazel's sibling, it takes less assumptions that he learned about him through her than him fighting Oz.

?

He also could have just met Hazel before his sister dies. Nothing here implies they fought before. The fact that Ozpin is recognizing his strength only after he is significantly weaker doesn't help your case, either.
 
How does my compromise look, by the way?

Is that something we can agree on, Weekly?
 
Desmond253 said:
What about the finally confrontation stopped Lionheart from telling Qrow they might have to fight the spring maiden. Telling Qrow that piece of information does not reveal Salem's plans in anyway

Let me rephrase it, Why didn't Cinder instantly nuke Jaune, why even bother toying with him all? my point in that statement is why are we using Qrow as the person to scale all of the other pro-huntsmen to when he has never fought against the maiden power.
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The fact that the Maiden was already there? Lionheart was under Salem's thumb for years and the minute he displeased her she killed him, he's simultaneously a coward and a puppet. And yes it does as the maidens are required to open the vault doors that hold the relics that Salem is after.

Because she's sadistic when she's fighting someone she knows is far below her level? She did the same thing with Pyrrha and she was actively taunting Jaune the entire time because she found it funny. And Qrow scales to people who have fought Half Maiden Cinder.
 
I hope many here consider my compromise. I feel like Weekly and Matt have convinced me to accept the scaling as a "likely".

I, however, got to go for now. I really tired myself out with this. Weekly, please close the thread if it derails a lot.
 
@Dargoo how does meeting someone and knowing their sister equate to knowing their exact fighting style, their semblance and its function, and the ins and outs of how they think? Hell Oz's first response to Hazel calling him out is 'oh no' and telling Oscar to run, then telling Oscar that he can handle Hazel, that he knows him, and that its not Oscar's fight.
 
He already told Qrow that the spring maiden was in the bandit camp what is the point of omiting the part about actually having to fight the maiden.

Qrow scales to Half Maiden Cinder a person he has never fought before, and all of the other pro huntsman sclae to him for fight the half maiden he never actually fought. Unless you can show me a scan of him actually trading blows with Cinder while her maiden powers are active, and don't send me a link to Volume 3 Chapter 7 because I already explained why that would not work as a justification for Quow scaling to Cinder. I suggest we uses someone who actually fought Cinder while she was using her maiden power to scale to.
 
Cowardice, thats literally the reason for most of the problems in volume 5. Leo lied and acted like a coward.

Qrow scales to Glynda who fought half Maiden Cinder. You dont need to actively fight someone in order to scale to someone who has fought them, thats the point of powerscaling.
 
I see I'm getting no where with Lionheart so I'll drop it

Glynda did not fight Cinder while she was using her maiden powers, she was clearly using dust during that fight, the maiden powers are not passive they must be activated unless you can show me they she is using the maiden powers and not the dust in her dress then no she did not fight half maiden cinder.
 
Yes she was, Cinder mixes Dust with her maiden powers through her dress but most of her powers were done through her maiden abilities, even Ruby stated that her fire wasnt done through normal means or through a semblance after she fought her during 'dance dance infiltration'. The only thing she actively uses Dust for in combat is to make weapons or solid projectiles and after getting the full power of the fall maiden she doesnt really use Dust at all. Her fire attacks arent Dust.
 
Show it to me then, show me that she was using her maiden powers during that exchange. Ruby clearly didn't know that you could infuse dust into your clothing so of course she is going to say that it wasn't used through normal means. Using someone who is ignorant to the technique of infusing dust into clothing is not a justification to say she is using her maiden powers.
 
She doesnt use dust for fire attacks, she's only shown to use Dust to make weapons and projectile shards of glass, thats all.

Also she was using powers that amber used in their fight including projectile flames and the mini forcefield
 
That forcefield looks more like a burst of fire dust, when she preforms that actions her arms light up signifying that dust is being used to preform that action
 
Cinders eyes do have that animation actually. This was before the maidens were even a thing, Amber's powers were based partially off of what Cinder did in that fight.

Also just gonna point out that Cinder's outfit doesnt even glow half the time when she's using Dust
 
If your admiting Maiden Powers didn't exists at this point why are you trying to retroactivlity create evidence when it's clear that this is dust. This fight is clearly being used as a way to demonstrate to the audience some of the aplications of dust. The animation on Cinder's eyes is clearly a different animation to the ones the maidens have when they use their powers. Just because you find out in the future that she has some special power, doesn't change that fact that she is not using them during her fight Glynda.
 
Because its not dust, its Maiden Powers. Maidens didnt exist in the lore yet but they existed in the universe. And yes it absolutely does change it, she's didnt use any Dust powers in her fight with Glynda as she doesnt use dust to make anything other than weapons.
 
Why are you lying, you clearly know that this is dust because at the time of the fights creation it can only be dust. At this point you are just insulting me and it very fustrating. You know it not maiden powers and yet you insist that it is. I point out that it dust due to the animations on her arms and her own movements when preforming these actions and you turn around and say it maiden powers because she has maiden powers. Just because she has them doesn't mean she's always using them. If you want to say she is using them then you need clear evidence that the maiden powers are being used which doesn't exist in that fight.
 
Some things:

1) The main issue about Qrow scaling from Cinder is that Maiden powers require training to be used properly (That's what Raven said when she pretended that Vernal was creating the storm)

2) Oz and Hazel knowing each other doesn't mean anything. Oz isn't the kind of person that would avoid getting intel on his enemies, and Salem knows Oz, so that could be Hazel's source of informations

3) Not sure how I feel about Glynda scaling from Cinder when the latter destroys all her attacks and the only real thing that Glynda does that would warrant scaling is putting up a forcefield that isn't shattered (and not sure why a Non-Aura forcefield would scale to other stats)
 
@Desmond Im not lying, its not Dust, you simply refuse to accept that for some bizarre reason. Its Maiden Powers. Cinder has never once ever used her dust for anything but weapons throughout the entire series. And by your own ogic, just because she has dust doesnt mean shes using it for everything. The Maiden powers DO exist in that fight, what are you even talking about?
 
@Desmond. Cinder's entire Dust plot got retconned hard. I'm not even sure that her whole "dust imbued into clothing" thing is even still canon due to Maidens taking over the plot.
 
@Cal The dust in clothing thing is still legit but she literally only used it to make weapons until she got her full maiden powers when she could just manifest weapons from fire instead
 
I'm saying it's not maiden powers because there is no clear evidence of maiden powers being used when there is clear evidence that dust is being used, at the time of that fight scenes creation (in the real world not in RWBY) the maidens did not exists meaning that it has to be dust. Unless you can show my this animation during that fight then you can not prove that she is using maiden powers during that fight it's that simple.
V3 07 00096
 
I can prove it because she canonically never uses Dust for anything other than weapons. That is proof enough that she's not using dust in that fight.
 
If she isn't using dust then why is there so much emphasis placed on her arms when she does her techniques, when the throws the fire balls her arms glow as she runs one arm down the other, when she makes the twists her arms and throws them outwards while they are glowing. You are just saying that she's not using dust even though it clearly looks like she is using dust.
 
Again, not sure why Glynda would scale based on "Cinder blows up my attacks but I can put them together again via TK"
 
Because she shoots fire from and controls her fire with her hands? Even after she gets the full maiden powers she does this.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I can prove it because she canonically never uses Dust for anything other than weapons. That is proof enough that she's not using dust in that fight.
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I think I remember that being stated before. Do you know when exactly?

Then we can put this to rest.
 
That doesn't answer my question about the emphasis on her arms, why do that glow, why does she flourish them when using her attack when in later volumes she just throws her arms out to create fire?

We know that there are more appications to dust than just making weapons. Where in that episode does it say she only has ever used dust to make her weapons. It would be counter productive to light the whole tower on fire when your trying to run a covert ops mission.
 
Yes it does answer your question, she uses her arms so much when using her fire attacks because she controls her fire attacks with her hands. Again, even after she got her full maiden powers and ditched the dust dress completely she still does this.
 
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