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Examining RWBY scaling for high tier characters

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Damage3245

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Introductio

Currently only two lines of justification support the High 7-C ratings on the profiles for Glynda Goodwitch and Qrow Branwe, and by extension the scaling for these two affect the profiles of Winter Schnee, Tyria,Hazel Rainart, Oscar Pine, James Ironwood, and Leonardo Lionheart.

I don't think the justifications are good enough for these characters.

Qrow's Justifications
This is the current justification for Qrow's profile:

Easily fended off Emerald Sustrai, Mercury Black, and Cinder Fall with half of the Maiden of Fall's power
Emerald and Mercury are High 8-C so we can pretty much write them off. Fending them off would not grant High 7-C stats. So what we're left with is:

Easily fended off Cinder Fall with half of the Maiden of Fall's power
Now, I don't think this is good enough justification because it's a bit misleading as to what actually happened. What happened was that Qrow showed up and severed the connection between Cinder and Amber, Cinder made an explosive mine appear underneath Qrow who dodged it. Then Cinder and her cohorts vanished.

The full encounter can be viewed here.

And that… is all that happens.

He didn't land any meaningful hits on her, she didn't land any meaningful hits on him. There are no calcs or feats supporting Qrow to be High 7-C. Some more points in detail:

Points
Point #1: Cinder couldn't be sure Qrow was alone.

  • She would have no way of knowing if he had backup on the way, or if Amber was about to get back up and keep fighting. So it's impossible to prove she only left because she was scared of Qrow.
Point #2: Cinder had only just stolen the Maiden's powers.

  • She has had no training with them, we can't be sure of how effectively she could use them straight away. She may have doubted herself and rather than risking everything, she decided to leave and finish the job later.
Point #3: Qrow never actually hit her.

  • This one requires a slightly different interpretation of what happened when he arrived. Instead of cutting off the connection and hitting her to knock her back, what happened was that Qrow cut off the connection and Cinder jumped back to avoid his sword.
    • Because of how quickly and unfocused the action is when Qrow arrives, we never actually see Qrow's sword hitting Cinder.
    • If Emerald and Mercury are fast enough to avoid his blade, then there's good chance Cinder could avoid it too.
Counterpoints and Rebuttals
Counterpoint #1: Qrow pushed Cinder back when he arrived, therefore he must be comparable.

  • Rebuttal: Cinder was likely off her guard when Qrow appeared. She may have had her Aura unprepared for him and was therefore pushed back. Remember that Jaune was able to chip Cinder's mask when she was distracted in Volume 5.
    • If Cinder wasn't blocking against his hit, then he obviously does not require High 7-C AP to simply knock her back. After all, he did not no damage to her whatsoever. It's impossible off that clash alone to deduce that he could hurt her.
Counterpoint #2: Cinder obviously left because Qrow posed a huge threat to her.

  • Rebuttal: We have no idea what's going through Cinder's head here. The last we see of her, she is looking all smug and then she vanishes. While it may be reasonable to assume that Cinder wanted to avoid a further confrontation, that isn't enough to assume Qrow must be Half-Maiden Cinder's level.
Glynda's Justifications
This is the current justification for Glynda's profile:

She was able to fight Cinder Fall with half of the Fall Maiden's powers for a period of time, Comparable to Qrow
Well, let's remove the Qrow bit for now since his scaling has been called into question, making her current justification just:

She was able to fight Cinder Fall with half of the Fall Maiden's powers for a period of time
The problem with this is just being able to fight her isn't good reasoning.

Here is the entire fight between the two of them.

  • Glynda does not land a single hit on Cinder for the entire fight.
  • Glynda blocks only a single fireball from Cinder the entire fight.
So at best we have a single durability feat out of this entire exchange in Glynda's favor. From a casual fireball flung out by Cinder; the same kind of fireball mind you that Cinder used against Ruby during in Volume 5 which didn't even break her Aura.

This isn't very convincing that Glynda, and therefore all high-tier characters should directly scale to half a Maiden's power unless you want every single character in the cast to be Large Town level.

Summary
The High 7-C ratings for Qrow and Glynda, and therefore the other six high-tier profiles are very questionable for reasons I've outlined above. I simply don't think they should be rated as High 7-C.

Maybe my standards a little bit too high, but the justifications being used aren't enough.
 
Agree 100%, about time someone said it

We can probably calculate Glynda's storm feat to get a better sense of the professional huntsmen, no one scales to maidens ofc.

This would downgrade Qrow, Glynda, Oscar (thank god), Hazel, Tyrian, Nora (fully charged), Cinder half maiden, Winter, Lionheart (again, thank god) and Ironwood, you missed a few in the list
 
Problem is that Watts didn't believe two maidens could defeat Qrow easily, that he wouldn't go down without a fight and that someone would notice.

If Qrow could be one shotted then Watts shouldn't have been worried about this.

Tyrian was sent to bring back the Spring Maiden, and do you really believe that Salem sent Tyrian to just convince the Spring Maiden to come with him?

Qrow believe that Leo and him could defeat Raven and a maiden as well.
 
TheRustyOne; whether all of that is true or not, that isn't what the current justifications are for Qrow's and Glynda's profiles.

Do you agree with me at least that the current justifications are not good enough?
 
Watts doesn't seem to have faith in the maiden powers at all, that statement doesn't really elevate qrow, but rather it downplays the maidens
 
Well, let's consider this for a moment though:

Qrow was supposedly comparable to Raven before anyone found out she was the Spring Maiden.

Yet you're suggesting that Qrow is still pretty much comparable to her as the Spring Maiden? So the Maiden powers aren't worth much at all?

That seems pretty inconsistent with what the show has portrayed.
 
If your addressing me I'm not saying that the Maiden powers are weak Im saying that interperting Watt's statement as praise for Qrow is probably incorrect.
 
Qrow hasn't fought with Raven in years, no way they were comparing current Qrow with current Raven. The Maidens have never once been portrayed as being massively superior to Qrow and the others.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Qrow hasn't fought with Raven in years, no way they were comparing current Qrow with current Raven.
Obviously they weren't comparing their exact current strength, but historically Qrow and Raven were comparable and Qrow didn't suggest a reason for why they wouldn't be.
 
Also if you're arguing that Tyrian is comparable to a Maiden in power... didn't Nora, Ren, Jaune and Ruby all take multiple hits from Tyrian without going down or having their auras break? Are you arguing each of them is comparable with a Maiden too?
 
Damage3245 said:
Also if you're arguing that Tyrian is comparable to a Maiden in power... didn't Nora, Ren, Jaune and Ruby all take multiple hits from Tyrian without going down or having their auras break? Are you arguing each of them is comparable with a Maiden too?
Are you serious?

Tyrian was toying with them, we've had this conversation many times before. How about you don't bring up things that have already been debunked?

Crying out loud, Tyrian blocked Nora's strongest attack with his tail and laughed at her.
 
I've not read every thread that's been about RWBY, so you can't expect me to know everything that's been debunked.

Even if he was playing with them, which I grant you he never appeared to take the fight seriously, was he alternating betweeen High 8-C and High 7-C power when fighting Ruby and Qrow? What sense would that make?

It was his mission to subdue Ruby and capture her; yet he ruins all of that by pulling his punches to a ridiculously degree?
 
> Yeah no, students have never once fought on par with pro level characters at any point in the seriea

Aside from when Nora knocked Hazel through a building, and Weiss' summons stabbed him? That's 'on par' even if the both of them had to use their Semblance to do it.
 
Watts isn't stupid, he's one of if not the smartest person on team Salem.

He was worried that two maidens wouldn't be able to beat Qrow fast enough before someone would hear them. If they can one shot him then Watts shouldn't be worried.

Tyrian was hunting down a Maiden and Qrow was confident that he and Leo could take on a Maiden along with Raven.

What else do we need, it seems pretty clear to me.
 
He laughed off an amped and angry Nora's strongest attack, jumped on jaunes shield and gawked at him mid combat, made a stupid face and didnt even bother to look at ruby when she was shooting at him yet blocked all of her shots, and while fighting qrow he sent nora and ren flying with a single attack. He was absolutely toying with them.
 
Damage3245 said:
Aside from when Nora knocked Hazel through a building, and Weiss' summons stabbed him? That's 'on par' even if the both of them had to use their Semblance to do it.
My dude, they were blatantly amped by semblances that's not comparable to their normal strength
 
Yes, I get that he was toying with them.

Back to my points though, do you agree Weekly that the current justifications aren't good enough?

> Tyrian was hunting down a Maiden and Qrow was confident that he and Leo could take on a Maiden along with Raven.

Tyrian having the job of hunting down a Maiden isn't exactly conclusive proof that he can match them at full power.

And perhaps Qrow was simply being overconfident and reckless?
 
No, the current justifications for Qrow and Glynda have issues as I have pointed out in the OP. Don't just sidestep them because you like the current ratings.

TriforcePower1 said:
The current justifications are bad, yes. But I don't know if they'll get downgraded given Walts' statement.
Watts' word isn't an absolute authority.
 
Cinder instantly engaged Ozpin in battle when she got the Maiden's power. Yet ran from Qrow when she got Half of the Maiden's power.

It's clear that Cinder wasn't confident in beating Qrow while being a Half Maiden. Your overcomplicating the scene, she ran away after seeing Qrow and that's it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Watts' word isn't an absolute authority.
It's not just Watts word, it's also Salem herself. She believe Tyrian can bring a Maiden to her and Qrow was confident that he and Leo could fight a Maiden along with Raven.
 
> Yet ran from Qrow when she got Half of the Maiden's power.

You're simplifying the scene too much. We have no idea what is going through Cinder's head at that moment.

She doesn't know if he has backup coming.

She doesn't know if she's suddenly got to fight both Qrow and Amber at once.

She had just been in a fight against Amber; getting involving in another fight immediately after - when it's she literally only just recieved the powers - is risky, sure. That doesn't mean Qrow can evenly match half a Maiden's power on that alone.
 
I may have missed something, but when did she learn that Qrow only ever works alone?
 
I am also not convinced that Cinder was immediately High 7-C upon acquiring the power from Amber. Apparently Maidens go through training in order to fully utilize their powers; she literally had just recieved hers. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume she was doubting herself then.
 
Qrow exclusively works alone by choice due to his semblance putting any teammates he has in danger just by being near him. There is no reason for Salem and her order to know who Qrow is and not know this about him, if not his semblance than the fact that he only works solo.
 
> There is no reason for Salem and her order to know who Qrow is and not know this about him, if not his semblance than the fact that he only works solo.

So you're just assuming this? This isn't coming from the show?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Salem knows about Qrow 100%, so Cinder should know as well. Tyrian knew who Qrow was, so Cinder should too.
Again... you're just assuming knowledge that the characters should have. That isn't evidence.
 
The OP makes good sense.

I'm rather uncomfortable giving someone an entirely different Tier off of another character's reaction to them, as opposed to, y'know, actually scaling off them.
 
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