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FairOk King, can you argue for why we should use your version of the calc over the current version?
I need some concrete reasons from both sides so I can side with whichever side I think is best
Kobster's calc of the currently accepted one from over 2 years ago brought us 27.48592 km.
Cin's recalc using the same exact method as the one above and the currently accepted one got 50.4856075061 km.
Rin recalced it using the same exact method as the one above and the currently accepted one got 31.234 km.
Literally every single calculation you've done for Dressrosa has gotten relative, if not lower than, 20km. You are the only person who has calced Dressrosa to under 20km on this wiki, and the moment we use a different method with lowballed assumptions and half of the island not accounted for, you get 20km exactly.
You and 3 other people calculated the same size with the same exact panels and got results ranging from 17 km to 50 km.
I used math and a few panels to account for the maximum size we can actually visibly see and got 60-74 km.
Same can island size if you find another picture, just like yours and all the others with the 16.5 km error margin.
I have seen inaccuracy in almost all the calc's on One piece and mostly about sizes... tho us humans can't be perfect, but we can try. I feel like people need to work/calc together behind the scenes or in a thread, Otherwise It will always be revised and people will argue without fully knowing how they calc things and stuff which takes up unnecessary time arguing. by calcing together, youll know more about things and feel like everything will work quicker but... thats what I thinkI know I'm not a Calc Group Member, but...
I had a somewhat heated conversation with USklaverei on other social media, but we've come to an agreement about it, so I thought it'd be relevant to this topic as well, which is why I'm commenting here.
About USklaverei and Damage's calculations using the boat as a basis, I do find some flaws with the Pixelscaling from both sides.
About the boat, which Damage did.
Sunny seems to be waaay further away than the boat scaled, which is either due to Oda being bad with perspective, or due to the fact Sunny is in fact, further away from the screen than the boat in question, which would make the Pixelscaling very inflated.
But the biggest problem comes from the next step, both USklaverei and Damage do that.
They use the boat, in the forest, to measure the shore. Usk, Damage
The problem is, the distance between the end of the forest and the sea is AT LEAST A FEW HUNDRED METERS.
Look here at my example, the boat's position vs where it's being measured.
It seems to be not that much, but it is, a few hundred meters at MINIMUM, and it definitely screws the perspective and the scaling over.
When I've finished gathering scans for Dressrosa and done some double-checking of things, I will post my counter-argument here if I think it's worth continuing the discussion.Ok for those reasons, I agree with King’s method for now, unless Damage’s side can bring a counter argument
Aside from the two up above the only other ones I can find is this shot, which is a bit less consistent because it's actually even shorter than the other two scans up above; only being eight bridge sections long instead of twelve.Damage brings up a solid point, what other scans do we have of the bridge? I would like to take a look at a bunch of them before making up my mind
The second scan was used for a calc above and brought very similar results to my calculationIt seems to me that a calc is being relied on for the length of the other side of the bridge between Dressrosa to Green Bit (beyond the broken part of it) because the length of it is unknowable otherwise. After rereading the manga I've found these two scans here and here, which show the portion of the bridge beyond the broken section.
Most already know, but I'll post here too, I did my own calculation for Dresrossa (I took advantage and put all the calculations involving since the current accepted ones are a complete mess)One Piece: Dressrosa Size + Calc AP
vsbattles.fandom.com
This wouldn't make sense at all because it wouldn't even take them 10 minutes to get to the other side of the bridge via the showings of these visualsIf we go by the method of assumed values for timeframe and Caeser's speed, this comes out to be a little over six kilometers for that length of bridge but we can see from the two visuals up above by the sets of thicker iron pillars on the sides of the bridge (of which there is about 12 or 13) that the distance is nowhere near that big. A quick comparison of the gap between two thicker pillars is enough to confirm that for us.
I understand your argument, but it's flawed.If we just had the one scan of the length of the bridge, I'd understand it being questionable but we have two consistent scans showing the length of the bridge and it does not support the calced figure for that portion of the bridge in KingTempest's calc. Even if those small sections of the bridge were a hundred meters long each, they wouldn't come close to the calced figure in the calc in the OP.
This wouldn't make sense at all because it wouldn't even take them 10 minutes to get to the other side of the bridge via the showings of these visuals
With these visuals it contradicts the size of the bigass ship that we see in Green Bit which is well over 100 meters in height.
With that size then a marineship would dwarf the size of the broken bridge, which we clearly see isn't the case.
This contradicts every single calculation we've done for the size of Dressrosa.
Based on nothing when Oda has made full on fight scenes with even seemingly longer instances around 5 minutes (Zoro vs Ryuma) or his chapters worth seconds (Alabasta bomb).That's why I don't think relying on the 30 minute figure is reliable. The conversations and fights could have taken longer than 5 minutes, and there is also a time-cut between the group standing at the end of the bridge watching the Fighting Fish being dragged away and Caesar transporting them across.
That doesn't justify a 30 minute gap in time and saying that less than 2 minutes was used to travel the bridge.I get why the method for calculating Caesar would be preferable but I don't agree with the interpretation that it must have taken them nearly half an hour to cross the distance by that method.
We can see ships in the ocean next to the bridge, and the width of those ships (which is objectively larger than that small portion the size of the sunny) is thinner than the bridge's width.The bridge is further away from the viewer than the bridge is, so it will appear smaller.
In your scan we see the part that was calculated to be almost 60 meters.I don't think we have any direct one-to-one shots of the battleship next to the bridge.
The same exact person said (with proof) that the small portion of the beach is over a few hundred meters, and it's definitely less than a quarter of the length of the broken bridge.Also, someone further up in the thread pointed out a potential issue with scaling the Sunny fo the battleship.
You were bringing up other calculations earlier to counter my size to say that it's inconsistent, and now they're faulty?I agree; but I think many of the calculations done in the past were faulty and they're not the subject of this thread.
Come on now.How does that justify calcing a distance and using that to detirmine the size of everything else? Your 74 kilometer to 90 kilometer size of Dressrosa is far larger than other methods I've seen for it.
Hasn't it been discussed several times that stated distances via speeds are better than visuals?I've found more evidence that may suggestion the scale of Dressrosa itself is a lot smaller than what some of our calcs have suggested, but I wanted to get this point out of the way first; that there are multiple visuals that contradict the calc in the OP.
Based on nothing when Oda has made full on fight scenes with even seemingly longer instances around 5 minutes (Zoro vs Ryuma) or his chapters worth seconds (Alabasta bomb).
That doesn't justify a 30 minute gap in time and saying that less than 2 minutes was used to travel the bridge.
We can see ships in the ocean next to the bridge, and the width of those ships (which is objectively larger than that small portion the size of the sunny) is thinner than the bridge's width.
You were bringing up other calculations earlier to counter my size to say that it's inconsistent, and now they're faulty?
Come on now.
Even your own scans contradict each other while my distance is consistent with another calc, and the size is not contradicted except for inconsistent visuals that even the author can't get consistent.
Hasn't it been discussed several times that stated distances via speeds are better than visuals?
You're acting like they just had a war in that timeframe.It's not solely them travelling on the bridge; there's also them after they're on the island and before we get the figure of the time, and whatever they were doing in the cut between them at the end of the bridge and them travelling via Caesar.
Oh wow, another inconsistency with visuals
And this argument would be flawed regardless if your shutting down your calcs.I was referring to the general trend of the calc's results in comparison to the much larger figure you started off with in your calc. I wasn't saying that makes every calc done in the past valid.
And other "inconsistencies" from other calcs that make it relative in size.One inconsistency that makes it appears even smaller, not larger.
The size is not contradicted except for those visuals that contradict each other and they don't count because they're not even consistent with each other.I can't help but read this as "The size is not contradicted except for those visuals that contradict it and they don't count."
Another speed, another size, a stated size, a stated distance, a stated timeframe, another distance found with the same method that contradicts this one, a range of an attack that is larger than this, etc.What do you expect to contradict it if not visuals of the bridge itself that you're calculating?
Damage, this calculation is consistent with another.That should be case by case, depending on how solid the figures are and what the visuals are like. In this case, I don't trust the Caeser calc.
My method uses the minimal amount of visuals than any calculation of Dressrosa and Green Bit on this wiki and it's based on a timeframe.Also, like it or not, your method relies on visuals too. Throwing in a calc doesn't make it the most valid method possible if the results or method of that calc are questionable.
They had full conversations and walked large distances and only 1 minute was taken up.
The size is not contradicted except for those visuals that contradict each other and they don't count because they're not even consistent with each other.
Another speed, another size, a stated size, a stated distance, a stated timeframe, another distance found with the same method that contradicts this one, a range of an attack that is larger than this, etc.
Damage, this calculation is consistent with another.
Yours is based on a picture when another picture can contradict it.
?????What full conversations? The conversations they had were prior to the 15 minute figure, then it cuts to them having walked into the jungle after a minute. Not whole conversations happening between the 15 mins and 14 mins figures.
Caesar travelled a 17500 meter tall (above water) Elephant and had no issues.I'm not pretending they had a whole war there; I'm just saying there's not enough evidence to show that it took them nearly all the 30 mins to travel by hot-air Caesar balloon.
You calculated Dressrosa's size with a picture and got 17 km.It's art dude. You can't expect 100% machine-like consistency so sorry, but I'm not taking this as a serious argument.
Your figure from your calc is just another piece of evidence among other pieces of visual evidence. You say "These visuals are inconsistent with each other" is no different than "This calc is inconsistent with these visuals." In this case, the visuals are closer to each other than they are to the value you've calced so I'm more inclined to trust the majority of evidence than a single calc.
Your visuals are inconsistent with EVERYTHING.It doesn't matter that the images aren't perfectly consistent because if that's what you're asking for then you will never get that on VS Battles.
You mean the bullshit pictures that contradict given sizes of other objects?What we do have to work with is multiple visuals of that portion of the bridge being much smaller than 6 km.
Now, even if you want to argue "These visuals aren't perfetly consistent with each other", so what? Not one of them comes close to the 6 km figure that you've calced so in that sense, each of them are consistently well below 6 km. Can you deny that? Even if the visuals aren't perfect (because they never will be), they are still consistently well below the calced figure, which is what I think is relevant here.
The original accepted size of Dressrosa was 43.8037 km.
This lowballed method of Dressrosa via WrongIdea21 (since we can't see the full size of the island) brought 41.821 km.
Kobster's calc of the currently accepted one from over 2 years ago brought us 27.48592 km.
Cin's recalc using the same exact method as the one above and the currently accepted one got 50.4856075061 km.
Rin recalced it using the same exact method as the one above and the currently accepted one got 31.234 km.
And if your evidence is, with all due respect, dogshit, then the evidence cannot be used.That doesn't necessarily make it correct if there is more evidence that refutes it.
If you want to ignore the fact that it's a visual calc, then I will use the visuals calculation to support my own.You were lambasting visuals being inconsistent and irrelevant here, and now you're saying that a visual-based calc supports your calc so that makes it okay.
"Multiple pictures" that are contradicted by belowAnd yours is based on a calc when multiple pictures can contradict that?
If you had visuals that showed that it was massively under and they weren't contradicted by anything, fine.This contradicts the size of the Marine ships, which you calculated only a small portion of the height to be 58.468452895419 meters, already over 1/3rd the size of the bridge (meaning that the height of the bridge is longer than/relative to the size of the broken part of the bridge). So unless you wanna tell me it takes a quarter of an hour to walk through the height of a Marine ship, this is wrong.
This contradicts the timeframe it took to travel that distance on the bridge. Even if they walked at 1.78816 meters per second, which is a lowball considering that most of the bridge they ran and the rest of it was via air balloon, plus these are superhumans, they would finish the broken part of the bridge in less than 2 minutes by walking, even though it almost took them 30 minutes to get there via air balloon, which is far superior to walking.
This contradicts the speed and size of the thousand sunny where the height of the ship is 1/3rd the size of the bridge, they should've taken seconds to get there, but instead they took a very long period of time.
This contradicts every single calculation we've done for the size of Dressrosa.
You were the same person preaching about how there are different levels of assumptions.What makes the action of calcing the distance sacred? Especially when you have to assume speed & time. The exact figures aren't directly given to us in this case.
If it's another finding of the bridge being the size of a few ships, then it'd be best not to see it.EDIT: I think we might be starting to go a little back-and-forth here and I'm running low on time. I will post tomorrow, or the beginning of next week, with my findings from other visuals of Dressrosa.
Sorry for the disrespect and the ignorance from my side, but I'm frustrated that every time I open up this website, I'm looking at a downgrades based on bad evidence which has flaws.
My position of staff does not make me prone to being frustrated, or should I quote where you spazzed on Arslan above?
There's more arguments to be made too. I'm not making these purely to try and convince KingTempest.Instead of going back and forth incessantly, just request other staff members to comment, it's pretty clear that neither of you is going to concede.
I'll leave that up to King if he wants to close it temporarily. I'll be asleep for the next 8 - 9 hours.This thread should be closed for 24hrs till everyone is cool and in the right head to argue