Dressrosa Size Calc

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thinking ahead, let’s say both calcs end up being perfectly valid in all retrospect, would averaging them be a valid option?

 

[Damage3245]

Thinking ahead, let’s say both calcs end up being perfectly valid in all retrospect, would averaging them be a valid option?

I made a CRT to address that possibility recently.

The responses I've gotten so far are that averaging results for unknown distances does not sound like a good idea.

Also, it's not just those two calcs. At the moment I've made a few more that I'm going to ask for evaluations tomorrow, to try and examine the location thoroughly.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Another thing that popped in my head, Caesar transformed to transport logically because it would be faster than walking, so could we simply assume he’d be unquantifiably faster than average walking speed. Using then the average walking speed for the bridge size?

 

[Damage3245]

Another thing that popped in my head, Caesar transformed to transport logically because it would be faster than walking, so could we simply assume he’d be unquantifiably faster than average walking speed. Using then the average walking speed for the bridge size?

He transformed because there was a gap in the bridge he had to carry them across. Not saying that you're necessarily wrong, but he didn't transform into a hot air balloon just because it would be faster than walking.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Fair enough, I still feel like assuming average walking speed would eliminate the uncertainty using wind speed, as there’s no reason to assume they’d be going slower than a walk during essentially “war time”.

Edit: I’m speaking for the future tho if your added proposals you hinted at don’t rectify the current issues ofc.

 

[Damage3245]

Mostly done on my post but today was the day I ended up having to move a lot of furniture so haven't had as much time as I'd like to focus on VSBW. Fortunately going forwards I should have more free time on my hands. Will be able to continue the discussion tomorrow or Sunday. Leaving this update here just to let you guys know I haven't forgotten about this.

 

[Damage3245]

I've put in a request on the Calc Evaluations thread for some pixelscaling of mine to be evaluated. Once that's done I'll be prepared to continue on here and call on the input of some others.


EDIT: But to go back to the earlier dispute regarding the method used in KingTempest's original calc. My reasoning regarding the sections of the Iron Bridge is my main objection to it but there is also this matter from our guidelines:

• Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations. (Take heed that paths don't need to be straight and that speed reliably has to be constant)

I don't think that the guidelines are satisfied by the current calculation. Caesar Clown's speed as a pseudo-hot air balloon is not stated and if his motion is directed by the wind then it is not going to be a reliably constant speed since the speed of the wind varies. The timeframe for the specific journey is not stated either. We have a timeframe of a series of events, of which a part of that is the travel by pseudo-hot air balloon but that is not the same thing as the time it takes Caesar Clown to make the journey being stated. Assumptions are having to be made in the calculation.

I'm not saying that is inherently a problem when it comes to calculations since we need to make assumptions all the time; but our guidelines say that the timeframe and speed need to be reliably stated which I don't think is fulfilled here.

In summary; not only is the result of the calculation contradicted by multiple other panels showing the length of the bridge, but in my opinion it does not satisfactorily meet our requirements regarding calculating distance for use in other calcs.

@DontTalkDT Can I get your input on my evaluation of the method used in the OP please?

 

[KingTempest]

Just found something.

Caesar could easily carry the SHs up of half of Zunesha but struggled to carry 3 people across the bridge.
Zunesha's 35km tall, half of it would be about 17.5km tall.

How'd that work for the bridge?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

How did you conclude he had an easier time for one than the other?

 

[KingTempest]

I've put in a request on the Calc Evaluations thread for some pixelscaling of mine to be evaluated. Once that's done I'll be prepared to continue on here and call on the input of some others.

An issue with 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6.

You used scans of people to calculate the size of the island, which is a risky practice.

For scans of Oda's, he zooms in to show the characters that are in the frame. Prime example, Zoro when he cut Pica.

How did you conclude he had an easier time for one than the other?

First time (on the bridge) he was saying that it'll take too much energy to carry them across the bridge, and when he arrived he was breathing hard.

The second time (up Zunesha) he was fine, casually spoke, used massive scale attacks, did more.

Basically

Caesar up Zunesha = Relatively fine
Caesar across bridge = Fatigue

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

First time (on the bridge) he was saying that it'll take too much energy to carry them across the bridge, and when he arrived he was breathing hard.

The second time (up Zunesha) he was fine, casually spoke, used massive scale attacks, did more.

Basically

Caesar up Zunesha = Relatively fine
Caesar across bridge = Fatigue

Ok that makes more sense.

If they were done in similar timeframes (or if he did Zunesha's in less time) then it would work, because exerting himself more while carrying less people in the same amount of time would imply at least that distance, if not it doesn't really work.

 

[KingTempest]

Ok that makes more sense.

If they were done in similar timeframes (or if he did Zunesha's in less time) then it would work, because exerting himself more while carrying less people in the same amount of time would imply at least that distance, if not it doesn't really work.

Pretty much

Caesar carried 5 people iirc (Sanji, Nami, Brook, Chopper, Momonosuke) up Zunesha while he only carried 3 people (Law, Robin, Usopp) across the bridge.

Unfortunately we're not given a timeframe for how long it took him to get up Zunesha, but from what we know he carried more people and was relatively fine.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Unfortunately we're not given a timeframe for how long it took him to get up Zunesha, but from what we know he carried more people and was relatively fine.

If you can't prove it took equal time or shorter time then you can't equate the distances.

Because you can walk 5 miles at like a 13 minute mile pace and it be super easy (65 minute total), but then struggle hard to do 2 miles in 13 minutes. So, him having a harder time with the bridge only matters in comparison to the Zunesha travel if the timeframes are comparable.

 

[Eminiteable]

If you can't prove it took equal time or shorter time then you can't equate the distances.

Because you can walk 5 miles at like a 13 minute mile pace and it be super easy (65 minute total), but then struggle hard to do 2 miles in 13 minutes. So, him having a harder time with the bridge only matters in comparison to the Zunesha travel if the timeframes are comparable.

From what I can tell his method of flight isn't done through pure physical stamina but through his gas fruit, which said gas fruit's energy (Gas energy) consumption is based upon how many people he carries (He took three to greenbit, 5 to Zunesha)

 

[KingTempest]

Pretty much that above^

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally, I don't like the wind speed calc. Wind is extremely variable (it could at times even blow in the opposite direction making it harder to go somewhere... which also makes comparison to other instances hard) and travel speed, in general, isn't the most consistent thing.

I don't know which of all the other calcs that were brought up here is best, but pixel scaling sounds much safer than assuming floating speed. I can see using the wind speed argument as supporting evidence towards another end, but as the primary argument, I don't think it's the best.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I don't know which of all the other calcs that were brought up here is best, but pixel scaling sounds much safer than assuming floating speed.

Not really... When it comes to One Piece, things look much differently in size in different panels. When statements from the creator comes out with size, it usually changes alot. Might be safer, might not be but pixel scaling isn't that much safer.

 

[Damage3245]

Personally, I don't like the wind speed calc. Wind is extremely variable (it could at times even blow in the opposite direction making it harder to go somewhere... which also makes comparison to other instances hard) and travel speed, in general, isn't the most consistent thing.

I don't know which of all the other calcs that were brought up here is best, but pixel scaling sounds much safer than assuming floating speed. I can see using the wind speed argument as supporting evidence towards another end, but as the primary argument, I don't think it's the best.

Thanks for responding. I can understand KT's objections to some pixelscaling methods because even I don't think they are all legit but the method that calculates Caesar's travel distance is an even riskier and les reliable method IMO.

I'll address KT's other posts soon.

 

[Stefano4444]

If both wind speed and character's pixerscaling have too many issues to result an accurate value, then we may as well simply go with the method based on the Marine Battleship as a compromise.

The one that USklaverei and Damage3245's Method 7 used, we still get a much larger Dressrosa anyway, we would only need to decide which one seen more accurate.

 

[Damage3245]

An issue with 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6.
You used scans of people to calculate the size of the island, which is a risky practice.
For scans of Oda's, he zooms in to show the characters that are in the frame. Prime example, Zoro when he cut Pica.

If both wind speed and character's pixerscaling have too many issues to result an accurate value, then we may as well simply go with the method based on the Marine Battleship as a compromise.

I don't think that character pixelscaling is inherently bad; some of the methods I've listed out in my blog post I do not think reflect Dressrosa's true size, but that doesn't mean ruling out scaling from characters altogether or we'd have to delete many other calcs that we use.

For the "Oda zooms in on characters" argument, that is only relevant in the Zoro example because we have methods that can disprove the size scaling for Zoro there.

Scaling to the Marine Battleships avoids scaling to any specific characters but if the result is heavily inconsistent with how Oda draws the rest of the Dressrosa and Dressrosa's landmarks then that will have a big impact on subsequent calculations.

If we can directly scale the size of the Colosseum to be a few hundred meters across, but our huge value for Dressrosa's size means that we can scale the Colosseum to be a couple kilometers across, then what value do we use when it comes to making a calculation that involves the Colosseum? The same goes for the Royal Plateau, or the Flower Hill or the Pica statue. If Oda is drawing these landmarks to be a smaller size than what the "much larger Dressrosa size" would suggest, then maybe the larger Dressrosa size value is inconsistent and shouldn't be used.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

For the "Oda zooms in on characters" argument, that is only relevant in the Zoro example because we have methods that can disprove the size scaling for Zoro there.

It applies to nearly everything that has white marking around things for example

And these are panels that are more accurate with good size

 

[Damage3245]

It applies to everything that has white marking around things for example

How does that prove that zooming in is happening?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How does that prove that zooming in is happening?

Many instances but this is a prime example and I have been searching for awhile now

Also strawhats compared to the ship

 

[Damage3245]

Many instances but this is a prime example and I have been searching for awhile now

The white border is a highlight, to make what is being surrounded stand out more on the page. I'm not sure how that means it is automatically not to scale with anything else on the page.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The white border is a highlight, to make what is being surrounded stand out more on the page. I'm not sure how that means it is automatically not to scale with anything else on the page.

Luffy is not this big compared to dragon kaido

Here the dragon doesn't look that big compared to Zoro when highlighted

and then looks massive when it's not highlighted

Here morias hands are many times bigger than the people...

Ones its highlighted luffy is comparable to his hand

So Franky is this⬆ big compared to the sunny when highlighted but is this small when not

That is a big inconsistency... Post timeskip Franky is even bigger than his pre timeskip... Nearly Any Highlighted will be inconsistent and not accurate. Show me proof otherwise.

 

[Damage3245]

@MonkeyOfLife; that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying "Everything highlighted is always consistent with everything else that is on-screen."

I'm saying it automatically doesn't invalidate it. To use your own example, we can plainly see that Franky there is not drawn accuratley to scale because we can compare him to what else is on the page.

Here is another shot fromn the same chapter. Franky is also highlighted here, but he is plainly drawn more in proportion to his surroundings and the ship.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Here is another shot fromn the same chapter. Franky is also highlighted here, but he is plainly drawn more in proportion to his surroundings and the ship.

Well that's still not fully accurate... Tho its difficult to say if that its highlighted there, the straw hat ship is highlighted tho and it's not that big compared to water 7

Also Nami as tall as robin?

Highlighted drawing makes things very inaccurate and shouldn't be used over ones without it.

I'm not sure how that means it is automatically not to scale with anything else on the page.

If they are highlighted with each other it should probably be safe but that's still could be inaccurate

 

[Damage3245]

Well that's still not fully accurate... Tho its difficult to say if that its highlighted there, the straw hat ship is highlighted tho and it's not that big compared to water 7

Have you considered that perspective is also a factor here?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Have you considered that perspective is also a factor here?

Yes... And highlight things removes the perspective of things...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm not going to argue anymore about this, when there are so many instances of it being inconsistent. ✌

 

[Stefano4444]

So what now? This discussion is in a deadlock (like with every important One Piece CRT).

Either people need to switch mind or someone need to call other members/calc group members to see what they think.

Otherwise this thread will go to nowhere and we will have to keep the current diameter as it is.

 

[Damage3245]

Otherwise this thread will go to nowhere and we will have to keep the current diameter as it is.

My proposal is stick with our current size for now rather than change all of the calcs now and likely change them all again later.

We can continue working on trying to find an alternative scaling that is more accurate/consistent, or find a way to calc some of the feats in a way that isn't dependent on Dressrosa's size.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I suggest not to using character size in this work, and using Object Size like ship is safer.

If I look at Damage's calc using the ship on the shore of Dressrosa compared to scaling the shipwreck in Greenbit then it won't be consistent because scaling of the ship in Greenbit results, in a Greenbit value being greater than Dressrosa. while from Fujitora's point of view, Dressrosa is bigger than greenbit.

if the pixel scaling method is inconsistent then using wind speed should be better.if the wind direction is not consistent as in the issue above, why we not use the average wind speed.

 

[Stefano4444]

Most feats relied on pixerscaling from Dressrosa like Issho's meteorites or Pica's Golem, no way they can be calc in other ways.

Personally, i think the pixerscaling using Marine Battleship for find the size of the island would be our best option.

Using character's heights had too many issues, and as @DontTalkDT say the wind speed can still be used as support evidence for the Marine Battleship's scaling.

As both methods are the ones who get the most similar results, while with the others the results are far too small to make sense.

 

[Damage3245]

As both methods are the ones who get the most similar results, while with the others the results are far too small to make sense.

Dressrosa itself is a lot smaller than that by most other methods. Any other scaling of the important landmarks of Dressrosa such as the Royal Plateau, the Corrida Colloseum, the Flower Hill, etc. all show Dressrosa to be smaller than that.

Most feats relied on pixerscaling from Dressrosa like Issho's meteorites or Pica's Golem, no way they can be calc in other ways.

I would disagree with that. The meteorites would be more difficult, but there's no reason why most of the feats can't be calculated by means other than scaling the entire island.

I suggest not to using character size in this work, and using Object Size like ship is safer.

Why? Oda isn't likely to be more perfect at drawing objects than he is at drawing characters.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Why? Oda isn't likely to be more perfect at drawing objects than he is at drawing characters

Oda does often provide inconsistency in drawing the size of both a character and an object, but in this case, Oda's inconsistency is mostly done in drawing character sizes.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

just calc sizes that uses the least highlighted panels... those will be the most accurate calcs

 

[XDragnoir]

Just found something.

Caesar could easily carry the SHs up of half of Zunesha but struggled to carry 3 people across the bridge.
Zunesha's 35km tall, half of it would be about 17.5km tall.

How'd that work for the bridge?

^^^ What about this?

 

[Stefano4444]

^^^ What about this?

Small correction, based on the Zunesha's scaling i made time ago, the visible body above the water would be around 18.16609 km.

 

[Damage3245]

^^^ What about this?

Doesn't seem relevant to me tbh. We don't know how far he traveled by both panels, and we don't see what state Caesar is in immediately after getting them up Zunisha.