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Mundus fires 2 particle beams in that cutscene. 1 hits trish. The other is sent towards dante but dante just looks at it and yeets it away. Which one are you talking about here?He did though. Literally in the cutscene that he meets Mundus for the first time he literally tanked the particle beam before Sparda DT activated.
Not matter manipulation dude. You aren't manipulating matter here, you're just giving the atoms too much energy.Durability negation via matter manipulation. There’s multiple ways you can negate durability dude. Matter just happened to be one of those ways.
Same as point 1, specify which one. Maybe link the video with the time stamp so that we can be sure we're talking about the same moment here.Except the beam didn’t go through completely in the cutscenes where he tanks it. The particle shots literally stop in his body and didn’t go completely through,
You didn't just say that.....pls tell me you didn't just say that. Did you really say that mid regen cannot regenerate a body part that was destroyed on an atomic level. Are you unironically saying that if you destroy the arm of a dude with mid regen, he cannot grow it back, because it was destroyed on an atomic levl.....? My god.also a little fun fact, mid level regen in general isn’t strong enough to fix atomic destruction. One’s on a way higher level for the regen to remotely bypass.
Exactly. Matter manip can (although i would say "IS" cus i don't think there are any cases where matter manip can't negate dura), but the reverse ain't true. Dura neg isn't matter manip. You aren't controlling matter in any way. At least not in this case.Again, matter manipulation can negate durability.
Exactly my point, it's so easy in concept yet ppl still mess up.This isn’t a hard concept to grasp. It’s really straight forward.
Yeah but we know Dante can just barrier them as he did in the cutscene. In the cutscene he eyeballed them off, what happens in the games doesn't mean it happens in canon too. Real dante may have barrier'd it, he may have simply dodged etc.I literally just told you when he got hit by them. Right when he meets Mundus when Trish was being hung on the wall. On top of the entire fight he can tank the particle beams that dwarf his size.
No, controlling the atomic structure is matter manip. Giving energy to it is not.You’re ignoring my point here. Affecting atomic structure is blatant matter manipulation. Characters that have durability negation through matter manipulation have these abilities for this reason.
Not "especially". It's ONLY when it's large enough to engulf the entire body. And i already answered that.Destroying someone at an atomic level is by definition too much for mid level regen to fix. Especially when the beam is large enough to engulf Dante entirely.
No. You are, again, not messing with the atomic structure you are just giving energy to it. You aren't controlling the matter, you are just applying so much energy it goes and does whatever it wants. You aren't controlling the matter or manipulating it in any way.what are you even arguing here? You mess with atomic structures to negate one’s durability. That’s you negating durability through matter manipulation.
I did a bunch of times.You’re just cherry picking my points now. Can you actually disprove the fact that particle beams can manipulate the atomic structure and attack does on that level if people keep “messing up” as you put it?
That's on you to prove dude. We know he countered it in other ways in canon, are you actually saying to take gameplay over cutscene rn?thats complete headcanon to say that stuff that happens in game doesn’t happen in canon.
Yes, which is why we don't consider them in character.By that logic does using Doppleganger and Quicksilver in DMC3 only count for gameplay and not canon because he doesn’t use these against an opponent in cutscene? Or nearly every single weapon Dante wields that isn’t rebellion don’t count as in character weapons to use because we don’t see him use these weapons in “canon” despite him having canonical cutscenes of him obtaining said weapons?
Absolutely FALSE equivalency. We know those exist cus they exist and appeared in the cutscenes. They happened. This didn't. Please get a better equivalency.If we’re arguing the “he could” statement, he could also tanked the particle beams. This statement can go both ways.
Affecting matter =/= manipulating matter. And atomic or molecular level aren't qualifications for matter manip.You’re still affecting matter regardless if you’re giving energy to it or not, especially when it’s stated to affect its atomic or molecular structure. At best if you wanna stretch this, it’s at bare minimum a limited form of matter manipulation.
It's explaining your wrong view on matter manip. Just a bit of correcting. I've debunked your point in other ways.Ok... what part of that debunks my point?
That's about as much matter manip as heating objects is matter manip. So if you do consider heating stuff, matter manip that's the level of logic we have here.You barely did, all you said it it gives energy to it to mess with the structure, that’s not remotely disproving the fact that it messes with the atomic structure.
@LordGinSama oh so me responding to you is the same as me completely ignoring your previous post, I didn’t know that these two polar opposite things had some similarities. Yeah, weaponized for the sole purpose of doing so, much like how the article for particle beam weapons literally say just that, and Mundus uses a particle beam in the game, what part of that is hard to understand?
Well first of all, once again you cleary don't have a firm grasp of what your arguing here anymore. For starters, it's only theorized that Weaponized Particle beams can do such, and one's never been successfully made. Secondly you can't scale a hax to the advancement of technology, and needless to say Devil May Cry isn't a futuristic verse.that doesn’t remotely debunk the point on weaponized particle beams literally stated to do that, and this is a fictional world with demonic powers beyond normal technology, what part of “weapons that aren’t usable” disproves the mere concept that weaponized particle beams affect the molecular structure?
I mean, i just mark the ones that won't be removed, the ones that aren't marked by the end of the thread should be removed.As for Earl's updated removal list he should probably state the ones he wants removed.
Okay yeah that I disagree with him once since Demon's regeneration stems from their blood. My arguement is against the scaling of them from scaling to every Demon so I'll apologize for that misunderstanding, wasn't my intent to agree with that.clearly you werent following the downgrade thread then. that part was meant to show earl that regen comes from their physiology, because he denies that currently
This is what I'm arguing against, my dude. What I'm saying is that weaker demons don't share the same level of regeneration as stronger Demons, and yes I'm aware of the power thing which is what I was basing my argument off of. To clarify, I'm saying we shouldn't be handing out High-Mid Regeneration to every Demon in existence especially if they come from the stronger Demons.execpt that it varies based on power. i clearly said show me something that states weaker demons have better regen than more powerful demons. the DMC verse page is the worst example to bring up since its very outdated AND it contradicts your argument because it also scales based on power.
Not the same, it's the same type of power soruce which the regeneration stems from but not the caliber at which they can regenerate. The Potency of regeneration lies within the power of the Demon, the potency isn't granted by the blood itself. Being superior doesn't mean much in regards to scaling regeneration, he clearly he superior to them given his blood from Sparda but that only applies to pshycial might.regen comes from physiology, demons have the same blood therefore the same regen, and dante is stated to be superior to them, Why do i have to explain this?
Okay why would you assume I would say Dante tanked them??? Please give me more credit than that. And no they wouldn't if the opponents has regeneration, especially regeneration like Dante's that heals as he's being damaged. The reasons why bullets in real life tear shit apart is because the amount of KE they produce and in comparison to flesh and such, well they aren't durable enough to withstand all the force in one area. And Sid's regeneration feat shouldn't be Low-High either since plenty of his body still remained so it's more akin to Mid-High since it blew him up.about the bullets feat, yeah hundreds of rifle rounds are gonna tear you apart, whether in real life or in DMC, and again you missed the entire point, i was referring to when sid got tore apart by dantes bullets, pretty much the same thing happens in VOL 1, dante got shot with hundreds of rounds and survived , and dont even try to say that "well dante could've just tanked them" this is the weakest version of dante, and a stronger version got pierced by bullets casually and regened this is pretty much the same feat on a greater scale.
Uhm...you do know that the entire point of regeneration scaling or Dante negating regeneration was debunked thoroughly in this very thread right?clearly you werent following the downgrade thread then. that part was meant to show earl that regen comes from their physiology, because he denies that currently
It being based on power is pure headcanon. Nowhere it is stated in the show, in fact it is contradicted.execpt that it varies based on power. i clearly said show me something that states weaker demons have better regen than more powerful demons. the DMC verse page is the worst example to bring up since its very outdated AND it contradicts your argument because it also scales based on power.
And humans all share the same physiology yet not everyone can hold their breath for 22 minutes. Weird huh?regen comes from physiology, demons have the same blood therefore the same regen, and dante is stated to be superior to them, Why do i have to explain this?
1- no there are like 9 people that still disagree with you.Uhm...you do know that the entire point of regeneration scaling or Dante negating regeneration was debunked thoroughly in this very thread right?
It being based on power is pure headcanon. Nowhere it is stated in the show, in fact it is contradicted.
And humans all share the same physiology yet not everyone can hold their breath for 22 minutes. Weird huh?
are you honestly arguing this right now? sid low-high comes from the fact that he regened from blood, yes some of his body remained but that does nullify the feat, he still regend from blood which is low-high, and here you go missing the entire point again, no one is saying that sid regen's feat is low-high, everyone knows that, im saying that what happened to sid when he got tore apart by dantes bullets should be the same thing that happened to him when he got struck by hundreds of bullets in Vol1. here is the scan if you want to see it. he got struck by hundreds of bullets within a time frame of a few seconds thats at least 20 bullets hitting dante per second so yeah safe to say that he got tore apart by that..
Okay why would you assume I would say Dante tanked them??? Please give me more credit than that. And no they wouldn't if the opponents has regeneration, especially regeneration like Dante's that heals as he's being damaged. The reasons why bullets in real life tear shit apart is because the amount of KE they produce and in comparison to flesh and such, well they aren't durable enough to withstand all the force in one area. And Sid's regeneration feat shouldn't be Low-High either since plenty of his body still remained so it's more akin to Mid-High since it blew him up.
Are you putting more weight on the DMC supporters than a neutral party that's also staff? If you are that is pretty sad.1- no there are like 9 people that still disagree with you.
Again, headcanon on the reasoning. It doesn't have to be stated that weaker demons have better regen, we straight up see it with our own eyes. What would need to be stated is "stronger demons have better regen" which, again you are using straight up headcanon to argue for. Where is the statement that stronger demons have better regen? I don't need your headcanon, i need the facts. i can show you feats of weaker demons having better regen than stronger demons though, the opposite of my argument though is just your raw headcanon?2- how? like legit whats this based on?there isnt a single instance where it is stated that a weaker demon has better regen than a more powerful one, as for "Nowhere it is stated in the show" it is indirectly implied, overall demon power comes from blood, regen comes from blood, so more demon power = better regen, in nico's report, all those abilites are implied to be amplified when dante is in DT that would include regen.
The f? So being able to hold our breath isn't part of our physiology? Excuse me? Do you live in the same planet as me?3- execpt that surviving underwater doesnt come from our physiology. not a very good analogy.
No dude. Please no. Please don't tell me you compared 2 of the strongest guns in the entire series that also happen to be some of the strongest anti demon guns that were made specifically for Dante to hunt demons to average guns you find in shops. Don't tell me you actually did that.im saying that what happened to sid when he got tore apart by dantes bullets should be the same thing that happened to him when he got struck by hundreds of bullets in Vol1
you mean the people that are knowledgeable of the verse? yes i am.Are you putting more weight on the DMC supporters than a neutral party that's also staff? If you are that is pretty sad.
now tell me earl, what does " not only can he move faster hit harder than anyone in the room, his wounds heal up in a flash" mean? because im pretty sure it means regen gets enchanced if you have more powerful demon power, and no it has to be stated otherwise its contradicts alot of other statements out there including the one above, and it doesnt even make any logical sense to begin with, Overall demon power including regen comes from demon blood, complete fodder demons have shown mid-high feats, what sense does it make to assume that a very powerful demon USING the exact same source of power to have less potent regen like dude just stopAgain, headcanon on the reasoning. It doesn't have to be stated that weaker demons have better regen, we straight up see it with our own eyes. What would need to be stated is "stronger demons have better regen" which, again you are using straight up headcanon to argue for. Where is the statement that stronger demons have better regen? I don't need your headcanon, i need the facts. i can show you feats of weaker demons having better regen than stronger demons though, the opposite of my argument though is just your raw headcanon?
Just going to add that two of DMC supporters that disagree with the downgrades are Staffyou mean the people that are knowledgeable of the verse? yes i am.
That also are ok with the whackiest things? That were ok with deconstruction when it was added even though now they gave up? That were ok with other things that are completely wrong from their very foundation? That's quite the trustworthy votes you got there. And i don't remember ever being proven wrong on my argument.you mean the people that are knowledgeable of the verse? yes i am.
So by your logic DT has more demon blood than base dante? What the demon form does is transform his body from human to demon, due to that he becomes better at well...being a demon, meaning demon power, physical strength, regeneration. So he's not part human anymore. Not "the stronger the demon the better the regen".now tell me earl, what does " not only can he move faster hit harder than anyone in the room, his wounds heal up in a flash" mean? because im pretty sure it means regen gets enchanced if you have more powerful demon power,
Oh no it doesn't, i got the feats.no it has to be stated otherwise its contradicts alot of other statements out there including the one above,
Because having the same power source doesn't mean you are specialized the same way? This argument is like saying "oh well give AoT Annie equal to eren regeneration cus it comes from being a titan and she's a titan" despite the feats showing otherwise. So 1 side has feats showing otherwise the other has headcanon, i wonder which one is being more reasonable?Overall demon power including regen comes from demon blood, complete fodder demons have shown mid-high feats, what sense does it make to assume that a very powerful demon USING the exact same source of power to less potent regen like jesus
Oh who exactly? Cus some of the points were so bad even the dmc supporters said "ok that's fair", let's see how neutral these staff are shall we?Just going to add that two of DMC supporters that disagree with the downgrades are Staff
In this thread is Glass and Red. What are the points that are pretty bad?Oh who exactly? Cus some of the points were so bad even the dmc supporters said "ok that's fair", let's see how neutral these staff are shall we?
Directly going against the site standards. Seems fair yes.He's hit by an AZ claws that's stated to instantly kill anyone who gets hit. The fact that Dante survives the slash would prove him resisting it, on top of the fact that Ifrit can melt the ice in the first place so I don't see why he wouldn't have it.
Wdym? It contradicts the standard directly. Being hti by AZ isn't "resistance to AZ". Yet glass was defending that.OK, what does Glass comment contradict az standards?
its has better demon power which comes from blood, i got this scan to further prove that, which comes from nicos reports describing boss dante in the special edition / Vergil dlc. and again, it states more demon power = better regenSo by your logic DT has more demon blood than base dante? What the demon form does is transform his body from human to demon, due to that he becomes better at well...being a demon, meaning demon power, physical strength, regeneration. So he's not part human anymore. Not "the stronger the demon the better the regen".
already said many times it comes from actual statements, again show me statements that suggest weaker demons have better regen than more powerful ones cus RN all your previous arguements are based on assumptions.Because having the same power source doesn't mean you are specialized the same way? This argument is like saying "oh well give AoT Annie equal to eren regeneration cus it comes from being a titan and she's a titan" despite the feats showing otherwise. So 1 side has feats showing otherwise the other has headcanon, i wonder which one is being more reasonable?
As i said, no. It has nothing to do with it. Otherwise beowulf would have better regen than golems, which he doesn't. So again, raw headcanon based on the interpretation of a sentence that is heavily contradicted by the game.its has better demon power which comes from blood, i got this scan to further prove that, which comes from nicos reports describing boss dante in the special edition / Vergil dlc. and again, it states better demon power = better regen
I got the actual feats fam.already said many times it comes from actual statements, again show me statements that suggest weaker demons have better regen than more powerful ones cus RN all your previous arguements are based on assumptions.
how is it contradicted by anything? and how is my literal interpretation headcanon? "once he lets loose with all that demon power, he'll be faster hit harder, and heal up whatever scratches you give him to boot" beowulf got his regen neged, again since regen comes from physiology (we legit have 4 scans for that right now) he should've regend his eyes even if he had mid-low and again Sid dying in 1 shot from E&I kinda disproves eveything you just said,As i said, no. It has nothing to do with it. Otherwise beowulf would have better regen than golems, which he doesn't. So again, raw headcanon based on the interpretation of a sentence that is heavily contradicted by the game
mind showing them?I got the actual feats fam.
Not really. Other demons like golems can regen just fine from Dante, but Beowulf can't? Vergil and Dante can regen from their own attacks? But other people can't? Sid regenerates from the very same Dante's shots, but after a fight he can't? And there are obviously many more cases i can name here.beowulf got his regen neged, again since regen comes from physiology (we legit have 4 scans for that right now) he should've regend his eyes even if he had mid-low
Yet the same E&I couldn't finish off a pre match Sid with those very same shots. Bad argument my guy. Bad argument all around.and again Sid dying in 1 shot from E&I kinda disproves eveything you just said,
pretty sure golems not dying are just game mechanics to make the game have more diverse enemies, as for sid, dantes first attacks against major enemies usually dont negate regen as shown when he was fighting that monkey demon back in Vol1, dante cuts him in half he regens, dante does the same thing again and suddenly he cant and there was no sign of him being weakened or anything, he even says "your weapons are useless against me" before getting slashedNot really. Other demons like golems can regen just fine from Dante, but Beowulf can't? Vergil and Dante can regen from their own attacks? But other people can't? Sid regenerates from the very same Dante's shots, but after a fight he can't? And there are obviously many more cases i can name here.
Yet the same E&I couldn't finish off a pre match Sid with those very same shots. Bad argument my guy. Bad argument all around.
Headcanon that's contradicted by their description of how they should be killed. They outright tell you "they will regenerate from normal attacks so you have to wear down their vitality". Very reminiscent of "cannot regen endlessly if shot over and over ain't it?pretty sure golems not dying are just game mechanics to make the game have more diverse enemies
Headcanon to support you adding fictional abilities that were never stated, shown and are contradicted by other things.as for sid, dantes first attacks against major enemies usually dont negate regen
Even dante wasn't minding being cut by vergil in their first fight. Doesn't help that the next stab left him wounded.as shown when he was fighting that monkey demon back in Vol1, dante cuts him in half he regens, dante does the same thing again and suddenly he cant and there was no sign of him being weakened or anything
Casual trashtalk. Cus the weapons sure as hell weren't useful. Meaning it was just the usual cocky bad guy that wants to trash talk by feigning invincibility.he even says "your weapons are useless against me" before getting slashed
In defense of Glass. Attacks of objects that have AZ do not give manipulation or resistance by the standards, but they do so when the target of this attack ends up frozen, something that was discussed and accepted, and is even within the standards of the page AZ feats in fictionWdym? It contradicts the standard directly. Being hti by AZ isn't "resistance to AZ". Yet glass was defending that.