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DMC Downgrade #2: Hax Edition

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the problem is the feats that he's showing for regen being taxed are just as unreliable, he mainly uses visuals to prove his points, and those same also visuals contradict his arguments, and the best thing he can get from them is that regen slows down overtime,
dante obviously has negation, read the replies above, i posted some examples : sid casually did a low-high feat, yet dante killed him with 1 shot from E&I,dante fights a monkey demon back in Vol1, he cuts it in half, it regened, he does it again, it also regened, then he severed its limbs and cuts it and suddenly it couldnt regen anymore and was actually hurt by its limbs being severed, when it wasnt affected when he cut it in half.

i'll post a full reply tomorrow cus im busy today
 
Ah, wait to provide people with the full insight on that regeneration being taxed thing. I think i did a good explanation earlier, let me just quote it.
Firephoenixearl said:
Anyway @Dargoo_Faust about the reason why i say that the more they get damaged the more their regen weakens is. In the first fight between Dante and Vergil. These guys have no trouble regening at the beginning of the fight, however after the fight ends and these guys have stabbed and sliced each-other several times. This happens:
Bit of context, dante was stabbed through the chest in that fight. After he gets up, transforms into a demon then back into a human. We see no wound on his chest, and the ground below is clean, but as soon as he falls into the ground the ground starts to get tainted in blood. Showing that the fact that they show no wound doesn't mean there is none (might be a designer choice, maybe they just forgot idk).
In the 2nd fight a similar thing happens. After having cleanly hit themselves multiple times, they slice themselves in the chest, the bad guy comes in showing how he's made a fool out of everybody and everyone played in the palm of his hand, but Dante then is shown again on screen, no signs of wound anywhere but he is holding his flank (clearly implying he is damaged) and even has trouble walking no more than 5 seconds later after that scene. And clearly physical stamina wasn't an issue as he was flying around fighting vergil 5 seconds ago, but he took more and more damage after that. Jester proceeds to say how Vergil has taken quite a trouncing (more proof of it being just a case of having taken a ton of damage), then after more blah blah about his plan Dante interrupts him and proceeds to attack him, but Jester says "You are wounded and weak". Again outright stating that they are currently damaged. Even though if their regen were at peak form from beginning to the end they wouldn't have been wounded.
Another scene saying the same thing is in DMC5 after a battle with Urizen, Vergil tells Dante "Heal your wounds Dante". Clearly implying he is wounded in that scene.

And if there is one thing we know is that there is no other characters in the series that can push Vergil and Dante to their limits more than each-other.
Click to expand...
This is a summarization of the "regeneration gets taxed" argument that Dargoo agreed with.
 
Sevil Natas said:
"Showing that the fact that they show no wound doesn't mean there is none (might be a designer choice, maybe they just forgot idk)." is not a very good explanation since they actually show wounds and said wounds disappear seconds later
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already responded to it
also correct me if im wrong. pretty sure dargoo only agreed on the fact that regen slows down overtime, not that it gets taxed.
 
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So far, based on what I've read, I do agree that we should only grant regen to demons that confirmed have it, when dealing with something vague like this, it's best to just grant the abilities to those that are shown to have them
 
Hmm its been a while, i dont agree anymore with regen getting weaker anymore, i found it to be inconsistent with the series, Arkham is contradict two times on its own game, and Vergil in DMC 5 its contradict two times. Both Dante and Urizen even at death's door at their own games showed no signs of slow regen.

Arkham and Vergil statements are show to be inconsistent overall.

And yes all demons have regeneration, the novel volume 1 confirms that with multiple regen feats and statement from Gilver, Novel volume 2 shows regeneration feat for demons, DMC 5 confirms that on dante's profile, Visions Of V confirms that demons have regeneration. Base Arkham shows regeneration feat, Arius shows regeneration. Everyone who is a demon or have demonic power/ blood showed regeneration, its a consistent thing,
Yes dont worry, later i will come with scans and video.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I mean....what do you think gets taxed means? It doesn't stop existing, it just slows down though if they get fatally wounded in that state they can die.
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uhh......... do i even have to explain whats wrong with this?

1st demons cant die from something they can regenerate, this shown alot of times. when dante had a sword through his chest for like 20 seconds straight, when he got implated by sid, etc etc....

2nd, whats this based on? they have no statements about this, and the feats you claim as proof are questionable at best
 
So have we reached some form of conclusion here?
 
No not really and I doubt there ever will be a conclusion so I'd say gathering neutral party staff is the only solution.
 
Its far from ending to be fair, and the CTR being huge doenst help at all.
Thats why every CTR i did when the forum moved was simple and small.
I wouldnt mind Earl remaking part 2 having less changes (of course earl would have to make more threads to fill all changes he wants).
At this point from what i did see before taking my time, alot of things have been discontinued and only feels changes have being argued.
Serious, at this point remake this and make Ant call all staff related to DMC so this dont turn into another unending thread.
And seriously, alot of changes here is worthy being its own thread.
 
We can settle on the rest of the topics and maybe leave regen for another thread then?

Since i do understand Regen is easily the most controversial topic left.
 
It would probably be better to do a remake then?

Cuz I see some of the stuff Earl put as staying like soul hax, yet stuff like regen looks to be argued the most along with whatever else may be argued.
 
What are the other stuff to discuss cuz I'm pretty much out of the loop here with DMC stuff. Am aware, just out of the loop...
 
Literally all that's in the OP that doesn't have red text next to it. (without deconstruction cus that's already agreed on to be removed).
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Literally all that's in the OP that doesn't have red text next to it. (without deconstruction cus that's already agreed on to be removed).
Click to expand...
About the deconstruction feat

We changed your minds after getting the hands in the novel to get more context to the feat. So deconstruction is also not going to be removed
 
Sorry, i did say that we changed our mind about nuking deconstruction from Dante, not you, i typed wrong
 
Ok....?

Anyway so im gonna name the things that WILL have to go:
Resistance to AZ. Whatever the argument is, it's irrelevant, standard change. Nothing to do here, i hope nobody bothers wasting time with this.
BFR with Yamato. Not even removing anything here, but just name it Portal Creation as it's not BFR.
I would also say Power Null just cus it doesn't fit but i know you DMC ppl still push for it so i won't include this in the things that will go for sure.

So can we at least agree that Resistance to AZ and BFR will definitely go?
 
This will be my last post since i don't have much time

BFR from Yamato can Go

Resistance to AZ nope, Frost's claws can freeze Dante with fits the AZ standards
 
So what is needed to discuss, also lets finish one CTR per time, since there is another CTR happening in the moment.
 
Yes, let's finish this first. And as i said the topics left to discuss are the points in the OP that don't have a red text next to them.
 
They agreed that it has to go. But i guess now they came back with better arguments for it after discussing on discord or sth idk.
 
Discord isn't valid, they can post it here otherwise that's not a factor. I don't recall anyone ever agreeing to leave it on this thread.
 
Although looking at it again, i will agree to the fact that Yamato sealed the 2 worlds. My only issue is whether Yamato can be considered resistance since it's the thing that made the seal to begin with.
 
What are the conclusions so far here?
 
The things that have a red text next to them in the OP have been rejected (concluded).

The things that have a green text next to them have been accepted (concluded).

I don't think i can summarize it better than that.
 
Okay. That is probably fine then.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Yes, let's finish this first. And as i said the topics left to discuss are the points in the OP that don't have a red text next to them.
Click to expand...
Alright then, i suggest we discuss Novel volume 1 at first and soo on.
My opnion on descontruction didnt change, i still believe it needs to be removed.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ok fair. What about the fear manip? Still think Dante would have any reason to be scared of weaker beings?
Click to expand...
I believe the problem is more of people confusing how emphatic, fear hax and natural fear works. According to the statements and feats Dante and demons cant get feared by emphatic manipulation and fear hax (fear hax can be counted since their powers are supernatural by nature and both dante and chen already demostrated a feat related to this). This doenst mean they cant get fear, they just resist being induced into fear by emphatic and supernatural means.
 
Well the thing is you don't need to "not get fear at all". The thing about natural fear is "you're naturally scared of things that are stronger than you" which is what they seemed to imply with the "human's 6th sense of danger".

Dante has never been scared by demons that are actual jokes to him in terms of strength (that would pose no threat to him what so ever) to my knowledge. For it to be a true fear hax, it would need to induce fear on people that would have no reason to fear them (people they logically wouldn't be able to graze in a fight).
 
Cant be related to 6th sense since fear is a emotion and scientific proved not being related to 6th sense.
By DMC logic, there is some supernatural fear induced like this one.
unknown.png

There is another one here
unknown.png

Is undeniable their fear related stuff is supernatural, even when its argued is just 6th sense shenanigans, their 6th is still being supernaturaly induced into fear. Which is makes eligible into being fear hax and emphatic manip (considering 6th).
 
EFÍTÉ said:
Cant be related to 6th sense since fear is a emotion and scientific proved not being related to 6th sense.
Click to expand...
6th sense is related to danger though. And fear is related to danger. 6th sense just tells you when something is too dangerous, and its normal to fear dangerous things.

However if you encounter something much weaker and by extension feel no danger coming out from it, then why would you feel fear? It cannot threaten you in anyway, it poses no danger.
 
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