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DMC Downgrade #2: Hax Edition

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Yes, based on what was being said on the whole "fear, give despair" and all of that. Doesn't mean it's not even hax to begin with.
 
The staff didn't say "yes that is fear manip/empathetic manip based on the scans given". They just told you "if a power leads to more powers that is empathetic manip". Stop twisting the staff's words.

And if by "staff approval" you mean 1 staff that means the fact that the regeneration gets taxed is also concluded?
 
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btw about regen
there's this scan which again implies that demons have regen by default,
also there's this where nico describes dante's regen, its says nothing about regen slowing down but in fact the oppsite
about the negation, there's also a part in Vol1. where dante fights a monkey,dante slays the demon, but it regened then dante cut the it again but it also regened , then the monkey blatantly states that his weapons were useless against him, but before he can finish his sentence dante severed his limbs & suddenly he couldnt regen anymore then dante killed him
 
That's not Regeneration Negation, people on this site really need to learn what that is. If it were regeneration negation then by the first slash the Demons wouldn't have been able to regenerate.



What he did do is overpower the regeneration, going by your scans that's lower levels of regeneration, Dante simply overpowered it by causing my damage than the Demon could regenerate from. Regeneration Negation is what Meliodas does via Hellfire, which outright stops the regeneration in it's tracks as opposed to damaging them beyond repair like what Dante does.



Does anyone have the Sid fight on stand by? Because even with that I think the Regeneration Negation is iffy.
 
Yeah Dante really shouldn't have Regeneration Negation to his profile, as he isn't causing any wounds to close up with his attacks and make them unable to heal. Quite literally all he's doing is mutilating the Demons to the point where the damages he causes overpowers the Regeneration. ( cutting the head off of someone with Low-Mid isn't the negation of Low-Mid but rather that Low-Mid cannot regenerate from such damage. ) so it's more of Dante's tactical strategy as opposed to some type of supernatural abilities. So while he really shouldn't have Regeneration Negation he should still be able to mutilate opponents with similar regeneration that he's faced before.



So removing Regeneration Negation and adding "Will resort to mutilating regenerative foe's." under his intelligence section seems like the proper solution to me.
 
LordGinSama said:
That's not Regeneration Negation, people on this site really need to learn what that is. If it were regeneration negation then by the first slash the Demons wouldn't have been able to regenerate.



What he did do is overpower the regeneration, going by your scans that's lower levels of regeneration, Dante simply overpowered it by causing my damage than the Demon could regenerate from. Regeneration Negation is what Meliodas does via Hellfire, which outright stops the regeneration in it's tracks as opposed to damaging them beyond repair like what Dante does.



Does anyone have the Sid fight on stand by? Because even with that I think the Regeneration Negation is iffy.
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execpt he didnt? he had at least mid regen feats prior (comparable demons have high-mid feats btw) so. his regen should cover losing limbs disembowelment etc... he even states that dante's weapons were useless against him, if he had known his regen was less than high-mid why would he state this? also the negation is probably not passive. he has to activate it first. and here is the fight with sid
 
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That Monkey objectively doesn't have Mid levels of Regeneration, going by the scan you yourself have provided he died after getting his limbs removed, cut in half and his head smashed by Dante.




Said statement clearly doesn't matter, statements can be false and given how cocky most Demons are in the franchise I'd say that it's a false statement. Him saying "your weapons don't matter!" when he has no idea how Dante can use them. That doesn't translate into "imma regenerate from everything your weapons can do to me, even if you shred me up." which is never implied and the fact that he did in the fashion he did ( Decapitation and dismemberment. ) automatically debunks the notion of his regeneration being above Low-Mid. That Decapitation was gonna kill him, at least that's what his next line implied. "Remember our proud name.. We are-" before Dante stomps the head like that scence from Office Space.



And needless to say I think it's a bad bit dishonest to be scaling various Demon's Regeneration to one another, as a multitude of them have Regeneration under different mechanics and to incredibly different levels.





Dante one, failed to negate his Regeneration with the first stike and when he tried again he was still healing fine until Dante went for the mutilation method. Like are we genuinely gonna say every Demon in DMC is resistant to Regeneration Negation because they can still heal from Dante's attacks? I don't need to point out the wild inconsistencies regarding this.



Also about Sid, it seems like Dante didn't even really have the chance to attack Sid all too much in that fight? From what I'm getting it's Demon Form Sid vs Base Dante, being Base Dante allowing Sid to ragdoll him, they clash and Sid is depowered from his Demon State into his normal human form. And Base Sid objectively doesn't have Low-High Regeneration as Base Sid is vastly weaker than typical Demons, even to the point where he wasn't showing up on Nina's Amulet.
 
alot of shit is wrong here,
first, you ignored by first 2 scans which shows the demon regenerating from disembowelment, he should've regened his limbs but he didnt.
second, yes we can scale via their physiology,
third, Sid did the low-high regen feat while in base form
 
Disembowelment is Low-Mid, so that's a moot point and he didn't regenerate his arms, we can't use the excuse "that he should have!" When he didn't. Anyways this is all Low-Mid regeneration.



And no, we can't. Demons vary greatly from Demon to Demon, if you wanna say they all have regeneration that's legitimate. Trying to scale them to High-Mid is a no go.



Base Sid directly after getting Abigail's power.
 
my "excuses" make more sense then whatever you're going on about, saying how it doesnt matter when they show feats then suddenly all those seem to be gone out of nowhere. and yes we can, their regen comes from demon blood according to this scan and further supported by this one. since their regen comes from their blood, they all have the same regen, about sid, after dante beat him, he magically lost all that power? prove that he did. because it seems to me that you're using head canon here
 
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No, no no. Sir this wiki doesn't remotely work that way, not sure how long you've been present here but saying "I'm pretty sure." isn't a form of actual argument.



Firstly, once again that scan is irrelevant to the topic I'm discussing. Demon Regeneration is based upon Demon Blood, that means every Demon has Regeneration but that doesn't automatically mean every Demon is capable of the same regenerative feats, some Demons have blatantly better Regeneration than others do. Some range from Low-Mid all the way to Low-Godly, and obviously not every Demon has Low-Godly regeneration. This is quite literally you taking scans and such out of context and attempting to use said scales for scaling purpose. The issue arises when we have various Demons with mutiple levels of Regeneration, all of which are varied on the Demon in question. Yes all Demons regenerate going by the scans above, but it's never stated nor implied every Demon has the same level of Regeneration.





Watch the fight again, the evidence is directly in your face. Sid fights Dante as Abigail, they clash and Sid is reverted to his base form, Dante then kills him with a shot to the head. And for your information, it's not up to me to prove shit, it's completely up to you to prove that Base weakened Sid has all the same abilities and such as Abigail ( which defeats the purpose of Sid fusing to begin with. ) it's up to you to prove a positive, not my job to prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on you.
 
LordGinSama said:
No, no no. Sir this wiki doesn't remotely work that way, not sure how long you've been present here but saying "I'm pretty sure." isn't a form of actual argument.



Firstly, once again that scan is irrelevant to the topic I'm discussing. Demon Regeneration is based upon Demon Blood, that means every Demon has Regeneration but that doesn't automatically mean every Demon is capable of the same regenerative feats, some Demons have blatantly better Regeneration than others do. Some range from Low-Mid all the way to Low-Godly, and obviously not every Demon has Low-Godly regeneration. This is quite literally you taking scans and such out of context and attempting to use said scales for scaling purpose. The issue arises when we have various Demons with mutiple levels of Regeneration, all of which are varied on the Demon in question. Yes all Demons regenerate going by the scans above, but it's never stated nor implied every Demon has the same level of Regeneration.





Watch the fight again, the evidence is directly in your face. Sid fights Dante as Abigail, they clash and Sid is reverted to his base form, Dante then kills him with a shot to the head. And for your information, it's not up to me to prove shit, it's completely up to you to prove that Base weakened Sid has all the same abilities and such as Abigail ( which defeats the purpose of Sid fusing to begin with. ) it's up to you to prove a positive, not my job to prove a negative, so the burden of proof is on you.
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1- way to ignore my point there

2-not even sure why you're bringing up mundus' generals & high tier demons into this when its out right stated that demon blood is the source of demons power (red orbs), being stronger or comparable to certain demons gives the same regen as them. because you have the same amount of blood as them.
mundus' generals are a special case, since they regen from their souls not needing their physiology to begin with.

3- you contradicted yourself there, he reverted back to his base form, that form earlier showed low-high feats. its stupid to assume that he lost his power since its never stated or implied, so the burden of proof is on you here, you're claiming that sid lost his abigail power which is something positive.
 
1: We really wanna talk about ignoring huh? Yet you haven't realized that there's a bunch of shit I've posted that you blatantly looked past? Kay.


2: No, the amount of blood isn't what matters when it comes into the sheer level of Regeneration Demon's posses, and I didn't mention Mundus. I said V, V in his base form has Low-Godly regeneration. Demons Blood gives Demons Regeneration, but they all don't have the same regenerative prowess. You continuing to repeat recycled statements doesn't add onto your argument, there's no statement nor implications that all Demons have the same level of regeneration via Demon Blood, Blood is just the power soruce but said power soruce doesn't grant every Demon the same level of Regeneration. If you don't have any statements of such I'd drop this argument entirely, it's blatantly clear that Demons have various levels of Regeneration.



3: Learn what Contradiction means and I'd also suggest halting your nonsense, because I never said Base Sid did the feat. Sid did the feat after absorbing Abigail, who got destroyed and separated from Sid by Dante. So this isn't Sid with Abigail's Power, but a weak Base Sid and Base Sid is a lot weaker than the average demon considering he wasn't even showing up on Nina's Amulet.
 
LordGinSama said:
I don't agree with it but yeah, tis on his profile along with type 8 immortality iirc.
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Oh that's just for his summons actually, it's not even purely because of demon blood. But eh, it's weird stuff and it's extra weird if we accept the core being the soul of demons when demons by nature are supposed to be "evil spirits" (souls).
 
Also why is Dante resistant to Matter Manipulation and Extrasensory Perception? Hiding his presence is Stealth Mastery, not resistance to Extrasensory Perception and for Matter Manipulation resistance the reason is "Should have the same powers as Sparda." But Sparda doesn't have resistance to matter manipulation?
 
I also don't see why Dante should be resistant to Time Stop if Argosaxx can only stop time in certain areas? Was Dante in one of those areas? If not then he has no reason for that resistance but if he did then feel free to correct me and provide citation.
 
Since i have a bit of time i going to respond the last remaining points

1) What a special bullet has to do with Dante's deconstruction, since everything in DMC works by demonic energy? Demons in the novels and manga did leave they body when they die and Gilver's death is detailed enough to prove the feat. And here is the feat with more context

2) Your argument is “Dante shouldn’t be scared of weak demons” ...thats a stupid argument,

it's like giving humans resistance to fear hax for looking at each-other when birds are scared of them). And the fear manip works solely because of the human's "6th sense" of danger, not because of "mind hax gg".
Click to expand...

Unlike this example, we know that demons are evil spirits capable of possesing shit to materialize in the human world, and explicitly mentioned to have an aura that instills fear on all those who are within their range.

3) I don't understand your reason to nuke power null for Dante with Royal Guard, because even the power null page supporting us here: “Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic.”

Dante Nulls any incoming attack, be it magic based or physically done and before you throw the gameplay mechanics bs again, i going to leave here how Royal Guard works

4) Because Dante don't get affected by the Nobody's poisonous bodies even V, which is Vergil half-human part, is not affected by fighting then

5) Did you even read the page? The revision thread? The revision only said that getting hit with something that is AZ doesn’t grant resistance, getting frozen by it still does. And i also going to post here that even fodder demons are unaffected by being in ice rooms made by King Cerberus and King Cerberus's ice is confirmed to be absolute zero potency

6) Urizen literally had a more prominent aura than Dante at the beginning of the game and he was asleep when V noticed it (visions of V), so Dante having a more prominent aura while in coma still holds value. It is there, the video is enough.

In case you forgot, they reacted to V when he was there but not to Dante, adding more fuel to the ability, showing that they do react to other shit in their way/path/range and Dante was getting pumped by human blood with makes demons more stronger another feat to prove even more the ability of the sword

7) We showed to you that demons have regen and even one of than state that they can instantly regen they wounds when on they demon form. We also showed to you many demons having regen and one of than as possessing a girl and the fight with Abigail last less than one minute the first one and the second one

8) I have the scans that shows that demons have universal range with dimensional travel and the one from DMC2 just support what are stated in the scans

9) Fine with removing BFR from Yamato

10) Before Sparda sealed the Demon World and the Human World demons are able to go from the Demon World to the Human World on they true forms and after that, only Yamato or the hell gates was capable to alow demons to go in the Human World on they true forms and Sparda did put a seal between the two worlds

11) Dante resistance to matter comes from his fight with Mundus, since he can tank his particle beams and because Dante is capable of surviving attacks from the Frost's claws, who's air can reach beyond absolute zero and can kill any of their victims without feeling any pain and can attack on molecular level

12) The text is wrong the Demon World Energy did stop time in the entire area not just certain areas
 
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Tanking a particle beam doesn't grant you resistance to matter manipulation, Mundus's beam doesn't deconstruct or damage on any sort of atomic level, it's just a beam made of particles. And nowhere is it stated in that scan that they attack at a Molecular level, they just dissipate their bodies on a Molecular level.
 
Honestly, i won't even bother. That is quite literally the 5th time (could be more) that you brought up the same debunked points. What even my guy? I wasn't expecting much here, but this is just sad.

Also:
Dante resistance to matter
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When did i bring this up actually?
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Honestly, i won't even bother. That is quite literally the 5th time (could be more) that you brought up the same debunked points. What even my guy? I wasn't expecting much here, but this is just sad.

Also:

When did i bring this up actually?
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It was answer for LordGin who asked about matter resistant feats.
 
Dante need to have his Deconstruction, resistance to matter manipulation removed and I believe several abilities being removed is still in discussion.
 
Theglassman12 said:
What’s the argument against the deconstruction and matter manipulation being on the page?
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LordGinSama said:
Tanking a particle beam doesn't grant you resistance to matter manipulation, Mundus's beam doesn't deconstruct or damage on any sort of atomic level, it's just a beam made of particles. And nowhere is it stated in that scan that they attack at a Molecular level, they just dissipate their bodies on a Molecular level.
Click to expand...
 
Theglassman12 said:
Umm, particle beams, especially weaponized particle beams can disrupt the targets molecular structure. If what Mundus fires is stated to be a particle beam, I don’t see why tanking it wouldn’t count since Dante’s molecular structure doesn’t get screwed over.
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No, no no that's blatant false information based upon the lack / last second research. Not all Particle Beams disrupt targets on a Molecular level. Such a concept would only apply to neutral-particle-beam, and so far we haven't even made those, at least a proper one and those are specifically made like that by for Military Combat purposes.




Not to mention Mundus isn't firing off a EPBW, he's literally just shooting a random beam of particles that have no real effect.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Umm, particle beams, especially weaponized particle beams can disrupt the targets molecular structure. If what Mundus fires is stated to be a particle beam, I don’t see why tanking it wouldn’t count since Dante’s molecular structure doesn’t get screwed over.
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You do know that:
1. Dante afaik never tanks 1 in a cutscene im assuming that comes strictly from gameplay which are iffy feats at best. In the cutscene he creates a barrier thingy
2. That is just dura neg at absolute best my guy. Meaning if the beam hits you, it will go through no matter the durability. Doesn't mean that a guy that gets impaled on a daily basis is gonna give a crap about it. He can just regen the damage it causes.
 
It also seems that such "dura negation" is based entirely on kinetic energy on an small area, which would also go into issues by the standards in here for stuff like bullets not falling as "dura-negating" weapons on higher tiers, there's also how stuff like the heat of the sun requires 8-A durability to be taken and so on, so with no further statements I don't think this should pass.
 
True particle beams are real dura-neg attacks. Because they work on an atomic level and there is no durability on the atomic/molecular level.

What's ridiculous is that people....glassman included apparently, don't know the difference between dura neg and matter manip.
 
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