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Death Battle Season Six Discussion Thread (3)

To Ben Hal may be the Flash. Assuming DB has them on the same AP (somehow), crazy speed feats for Hal are easy to find, so he wins via blitzing 99% of his aliens.
 
They had Wario at low 5-B via the Shake King Feat they also had Dedede in Tier 5 big the Popstar bust and the explosion from Triple Deluxe with a high end 4-B from Magolor's Black Hole according to the research team

And MFTL+ speed from Meta Knight.
 
On Magolor's black hole thing, they show 3 different notions. He uses a black hole that warps the background in battle, the one they calc'd. There was a star-shaped portal in the background that had nothing to do with the black hole, sometimes they showed that when talking about the black hole. And the destruction of that dimension, it wasn't done due to the black hole or the portal, it just happened due to Magolor being defeated.

Additionally, only interstellar parts of that universe was destroyed, not all of it as they say. We know this due to the defeat of many Sphere Doomers individually fixing the parts of that dimension ruined until it was completely fixed. Also it was never stated that all of that universe was going to be destroyed, and that needs to be the case for anyone to affirm that.
 
That's not Another Dimension from Return to Dream Land tho, there are dimensions in the verse called Another Dimension and they are just that. In Star Allies there are 5 Another Dimensions and none of them we can affirm is the same as the first one.
 
Is the calc they did even veritable?

That being said, I still think it's close, which means that Wario's regen would still likely be a problem for Triple D, but meh.

Still not sure if those high-ends are as high as we think, given the variant sizes of the celestial bodies and what classifies as a "star" in Kirby. But, it seems 4-A Kirby simply has tons of supporting things that make you think that. I also still think Mario characters have a quite a bit of MSS and SS feats in base, but it's all good.

Like I was arguing before with the other guy, Ben gets stomped. Mindwiping, making contructs of a whole GL army, BFR, potential sealing with other GLs he can summon, warping his beams into people's heads or back in time, sending others back in time, time travel, time stops and slows, illusiom creation, telepathy, information analysis and advanced data processing, automatic barriers, invisibility cloaks, atomic splitting and extreme accuracy, and mamy more.

And he can reasonably perform all of these within the first nanosecond.
 
Yeah, if Ben somehow pulls out a win from this then it will be the most inaccurate match since Yang vs Tifa, which in turn was the most inaccurate match since Dig Dug vs Bomberman.
 
@Cal That ignores a lot of things. It's not the same name, it's the same treatment. The names they gave them in Star Allies is Dimension I, Dimension II, Dimension III, Dimension IV and Final Dimension, the treatment they all had is being Another Dimension, but they are not all the same dimension due to the game outright stateding them to be a plural amount of dimensions (because apparently having names with numbers isn't enough).

They all look the same to each other and Return to Dream Land's Another Dimension because all of them have properties other realms don't have in Kirby, this being transcending space-time, which in the practice just means that time works different there.
 
@Cal

And like I said, "Another" is a broad statement. By your logic because another country other then America is Japan, that means every other country in the world is Japan.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Like I was arguing before with the other guy, Ben gets stomped. Mindwiping, making contructs of a whole GL army, BFR, potential sealing with other GLs he can summon, warping his beams into people's heads or back in time, sending others back in time, time travel, time stops and slows, illusiom creation, telepathy, information analysis and advanced data processing, automatic barriers, invisibility cloaks, atomic splitting and extreme accuracy, and mamy more.

And he can reasonably perform all of these within the first nanosecond.
Click to expand...
That without taking intro account the massive gap in Attack Potency/Strength/Durability/Speed that Ben's aliens (aside for Alien X and Feedback) cannot hope to match.

Also the fact that Hal had likely better combat skills (with his traning as a military pilot and as a Green Lantern) and comparable combat experience.
 
Yes, but clearly the fail-safe would save Ben from imminent death!!

Which is why I bring up simpmy cutting the arm off, as it's not fatal. An organized effort to mask his presence and make him invisible as well while Ben is either being fed illusory crap or dealing with a whole construct army would allow him to do it. Or a mindwipe. Or a time slow and maybe stop (latter might only be a pre-crisis ability) to ensure he can pull it off.

That ability to scan his opponents can also potentially be busted here, as well as his potential hacking.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Yes, but clearly the fail-safe would save Ben from imminent death!!
Which is why I bring up simpmy cutting the arm off, as it's not fatal. An organized effort to mask his presence and make him invisible as well while Ben is either being fed illusory crap or dealing with a whole construct army would allow him to do it. Or a mindwipe. Or a time slow and maybe stop (latter might only be a pre-crisis ability) to ensure he can pull it off.

That ability to scan his opponents can also potentially be busted here, as well as his potential hacking.
Click to expand...
Are you dumb or something? Why the hell would Ben being tricked via illusions matter to the Omnitrix? Also Ben literally had his arm chopped off before and himself sent to another dimension and the Omnitrix still ******* functioned, having his arm chopped off is far less significant to him than it is to Green Lantern. Also I'm rather curious about that information scanning ability given the closest thing I could find for information about it implies the information comes from a galactic database or that hacking ability which despite GL being very well known for, has very little info about it. Also bleeding to death isn't fatal you guys :^)

>Mindwiping

This literally isn't going to stop the Omnitrix, all it really does is prevent Ben from actually trying to kill Hal which really isn't going to do much if Hal can't kill Ben.

>making contructs of a whole GL army, potential sealing with other GLs he can summon

Is this supposed to matter? I'm sure the Universal+ reality warper is going to be significantly hampered by a bunch of dudes he can reality warp away with a thought as opposed to a single dude he can reality warp away with a thought.

>BFR

Ah yes, I do enjoy discussing BFR Battle, where the rule is the first contestant to BFR their opponent wins. Also too bad Ben has no way of escaping.

>warping his beams into people's heads

Wow, he can move his projectiles amazing truly a universal+ level feat my dude

>or back in time, sending others back in time, time travel, time stops and slows

Ah yes, sending the opponent back in time is a viable strategy, thank god he doesn't have any hax to delete people or otherwise that might have been completely ******* dumb. Also I'll give you time travel, but Hal isn't exactly known for using time powers or making loss memes. Nor do I believe he's going to casually figure out the time to go back to.

>illusiom creation, telepathy, automatic barriers, invisibility cloaks, atomic splitting and extreme accuracy

I mean sure there may be a reality warping Universal+ dude but being able to speak to his mind, or create illusions or go invisible will definitely save you when you lack any sort of universal feats, but the most impressive power must be EXTREME ACCURACY. Also automatic shields are nice, but even with universal feats, it really doesn't do anything against casual universal busting.

Also yeah bro the dude who has a universal+ reality warper up his sleeve who he can automatically turn into eeking out a win against a solar system+ level dude with little to no ways of actually murdering the dude is definitely on par with a dude with FTL+ speed feats and planetary durability losing to a street-tier character.
 
Which episode is saying Ben literally had his arm chopped off before and himself sent to another dimension and the Omnitrix still functioned?

I remember one episode he was hypnotised into a dream world and he had his Omnitrix almost ripped off - the real Omnitrix did not transform the real Ben until he woke up by himself under some adventure scenes. The watch did give signals though.
 
anyone else notice that they called Void Termina multiversal

this is the third Death Battle in which they made characters stronger than they actually are
 
Jasonsith said:
Which episode is saying Ben literally had his arm chopped off before and himself sent to another dimension and the Omnitrix still functioned?
I remember one episode he was hypnotised into a dream world and he had his Omnitrix almost ripped off - the real Omnitrix did not transform the real Ben until he woke up by himself under some adventure scenes. The watch did give signals though.
Click to expand...
https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Singlehanded

Tipper17 said:
Alright so outside of Alien X who what aliens that Ben has that can help him against Hal that won't get massacred in seconds?
Click to expand...
Gravattack can manipulate relativity to the point of reducing the speed of things to nothing. Clockwork has time manipulation. Feedback has universal durability and would scale to Hal's AP due to energy absorbing.
 
https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Singlehanded

Tipper17 said:
Alright so outside of Alien X who what aliens that Ben has that can help him against Hal that won't get massacred in seconds?
Click to expand...
Gravattack can manipulate relativity to the point of reducing the speed of things to nothing. Clockwork has time manipulation. Feedback has universal durability and would scale to Hal's AP due to energy absorbing.

Outside of feedback can any of them prevent Hal from blitzing
 
Gravattack can manipulate relativity to the point of reducing the speed of things to nothing. Clockwork has time manipulation.

Speed = action distance / time

And if Ben can have his arm chopped off before and himself sent to another dimension and the Omnitrix still functioning, there is nothing Hal can do.

The Omnitrix will choose to transform Ben into Alien X on his behalf even if Ben's mind is wiped.

Even the universal feats from Hal is dwarfed by Ben's low 2-C feats.
 
Lol sure love when someone mindlessly insults you.

Alien X rarely coems out as well, and Ben rarely uses his 2-C reality warping as well.

Also, like I said before: Tossing the hand into another dimension/universe, BFR'ing in general, or sealing it or Ben away are also viable strategies.

Also, Hal has converted entire people ibto energy and was shown manipulating the molecular structure of something for Flash to phase through easily. Can the Omnitrix defend against hacking, havibg its atons rearranged or disassembled as well as molecular structure? Hell, can ot defend agaisnt simply being conberted into energy? Can it still latch onto Ben if only Ben is converted to enery and warped away? Can it defend against GL telporting his blasts inside of it and messing up the internal structure? Can it hell Ben against a beam being warped into his brain? Does it count as a win for Ben if he's killed while the Omnitrix is technically still functioning as his severed hand and turns into Alien X? I'm not seeing proof the severed hand strategy wouldn't work.

Also, what 2-C feat is there? Absorbing the energy of thr Big Bamg through PIS hax? Creating a universe through reality warping? Being immune to a space-time deletion wave that GRADUALLY expanded to consume the universe? It also reached the pocket dimensions of Alien X, so either he WAS effected and Alien X simply willed himself into being, or it's entirely contrived because someone "tanking" the universe being destroyed wouldn't have their dimensional mindscape being corroded as well.

Hell, who's to say Hal can't erase the memories and data stored on the Omnitrix? It apparently seems to be sentient, so why not? What's the explanation to him not being able to do so? Is there any?

Again, y'all are really relying on a singular form while most of this battle will be with the other aliens. And to those who say it's out of character for Hal? GLs are SUPPOSED to recors data and shit while observing a new threat. And you know? He has ways to ibserve fron a distance as well as a quick scan regardless to likely get a baseline understanding of what he can or cannot do at the very least.

But if I get one more toxic reply fron you, I'm simply gonna block/ignore you from now on.

And to shut it down before it comes up -- the Omnitrix wouldn't have Ben if he's already dead, and he's needed to make sure the two personalities inside agree, which means even Alien X after Ben's death awau from the Omnitrix wouldn't do any good. Yes, they COULD will him back into existence, but do we have proof that Alienx X can function without Ben? No? Okay.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Lol sure love when someone mindlessly insults you.
Alien X rarely coems out as well, and Ben rarely uses his 2-C reality warping as well.

Also, like I said before: Tossing the hand into another dimension/universe, BFR'ing in general, or sealing it or Ben away are also viable strategies.

Also, Hal has converted entire people ibto energy and was shown manipulating the molecular structure of something for Flash to phase through easily. Can the Omnitrix defend against hacking, havibg its atons rearranged or disassembled as well as molecular structure? Hell, can ot defend agaisnt simply being conberted into energy? Can it still latch onto Ben if only Ben is converted to enery and warped away? Can it defend against GL telporting his blasts inside of it and messing up the internal structure? Can it hell Ben against a beam being warped into his brain? Does it count as a win for Ben if he's killed while the Omnitrix is technically still functioning as his severed hand and turns into Alien X? I'm not seeing proof the severed hand strategy wouldn't work.

Also, what 2-C feat is there? Absorbing the energy of thr Big Bamg through PIS hax? Creating a universe through reality warping? Being immune to a space-time deletion wave that GRADUALLY expanded to consume the universe? It also reached the pocket dimensions of Alien X, so either he WAS effected and Alien X simply willed himself into being, or it's entirely contrived because someone "tanking" the universe being destroyed wouldn't have their dimensional mindscape being corroded as well.

Hell, who's to say Hal can't erase the memories and data stored on the Omnitrix? It apparently seems to be sentient, so why not? What's the explanation to him not being able to do so? Is there any?

Again, y'all are really relying on a singular form while most of this battle will be with the other aliens. And to those who say it's out of character for Hal? GLs are SUPPOSED to recors data and shit while observing a new threat. And you know? He has ways to ibserve fron a distance as well as a quick scan regardless to likely get a baseline understanding of what he can or cannot do at the very least.

But if I get one more toxic reply fron you, I'm simply gonna block/ignore you from now on.

And to shut it down before it comes up -- the Omnitrix wouldn't have Ben if he's already dead, and he's needed to make sure the two personalities inside agree, which means even Alien X after Ben's death awau from the Omnitrix wouldn't do any good. Yes, they COULD will him back into existence, but do we have proof that Alienx X can function without Ben? No? Okay.
Click to expand...
>Lol sure love when someone mindlessly insults you.

Just a bit of bantz my dude :^)

>Alien X rarely coems out as well, and Ben rarely uses his 2-C reality warping as well.

Opposed to Hal, who is well known for using time manipulation, mindwipes, matter manipulation, and that sort of thing. Also Hal's not significant of a threat for Alien X I guess.

>Tossing the hand into another dimension/universe, BFR'ing in general, or sealing it or Ben away are also viable strategies.

First one doesn't work. Also Death Battles have to end in a death, Starscream vs Rainbow Dash was several years ago and that was a minor exception also a mistake.

>Can the Omnitrix defend against hacking, havibg its atons rearranged or disassembled as well as molecular structure? Hell, can ot defend agaisnt simply being conberted into energy?

Yes for hacking, and hey it had minor molecular manipulation before.

>Can it still latch onto Ben if only Ben is converted to enery and warped away? Can it defend against GL telporting his blasts inside of it and messing up the internal structure?

I am fairly certain being converted into energy is what people would consider fairly ******* fatal and lead to it transforming him, and considering the scope of matter manipulation, sounds like a real easy way to get him to transform to Alien X. And I'm fairly certain the Omnitrix is durable enough to withstand that sort of thing.

>Can it hell Ben against a beam being warped into his brain? Does it count as a win for Ben if he's killed while the Omnitrix is technically still functioning as his severed hand and turns into Alien X? I'm not seeing proof the severed hand strategy wouldn't work.

Uh yes for both because those are both fatal threats. Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHsQk51w9u4 and yeah I guess having that exact scenario happen and not actually hampering the Omnitrix isn't actually proof. Nor is cutting a dude's hand off fatal, dying of blood loss doesn't actually count as a fatal scenario :^)

>muh Ben 10 universal feats are PIS and don't count

yeah bro if you don't like feats just call em PIS and they don't count, also Hal is the ultimate time manipulator :^)

>Hell, who's to say Hal can't erase the memories and data stored on the Omnitrix? It apparently seems to be sentient, so why not? What's the explanation to him not being able to do so? Is there any?

what. Also the Omnitrix still has an outside source even if that happened through the Codon stream.

>Again, y'all are really relying on a singular form while most of this battle will be with the other aliens. And to those who say it's out of character for Hal? GLs are SUPPOSED to recors data and shit while observing a new threat. And you know? He has ways to ibserve fron a distance as well as a quick scan regardless to likely get a baseline understanding of what he can or cannot do at the very least.

Ah yes except for the mention of three other aliens. And I don't remember Guacamole "Who the hell's Bruce Wayne" IQ Man ever being particularly intelligent. Also I don't think that data scan extends to alien technology from an entirely different universe which he has never encountered up to now, nor do I think he is going to figure out that casting fetus deletus is the way to go.

On a side note, remember Hal's power ring having a limited charge? It sure would suck if one of Ben's aliens who had hax to mitigate Hal's advantages and kill him also had the ability to say manipulate time and thus expend that charge.

>And to shut it down before it comes up -- the Omnitrix wouldn't have Ben if he's already dead, and he's needed to make sure the two personalities inside agree, which means even Alien X after Ben's death awau from the Omnitrix wouldn't do any good. Yes, they COULD will him back into existence, but do we have proof that Alienx X can function without Ben? No? Okay.

Considering automatic transformation is a thing, I have heavy doubts Hal could actually kill Ben. Also, Ben has had himself die and regenerate as result of the Omnitrix, so even if Hal was given a weaker alien, that's no guarantee of victory.
 
Death battle research for king dedede was good i agree with magalor being higher than mutisolarsystem the Dimension Collapse by Magalor is at least low Multiverse or multiversal threat whether you like it or not the dimensions in Star allies are different not all dimensions are the same magolor is probably the most powerful villain in the Kirby verse every Dimension leads to a different universe or place
 
Again, provide context for Ben "dying" because as far as I recall, every instance was ultimately said to be the Onnitrix savibg his ass or another force bringing him back.

Also, it's not quite automatic and the reason the other aliens don't matter is because they can't do anything before they're rendered null by Hal's superior stats.

Also, provide specific instances besides simply stating things? Amd I dunno. Scanning physical abilities isn't exactly an alien concept.

Wamma be cheeky about what I use? How about the inconsistency with Ben's weaknesses? How about Ben not always going right for his hax either? I still don't see how anything of what you said has countered what I've said.

The Omnitrix isn't infinite in speed, and a spacial warp of a beam right inside his head is something he nor the Omnitrix never dealt with, and even transforming into another Alien wouldn't help, as that's a direct attacm on the interbals and a good shot at turning Ben's brain to mush even in whatever forn the Omnitrix thinks will work. Nor have they dealt with a mindwipe. From what you said, it's got little in the way of resisting it's atomic and molecular structure being altered as well,and if it does have an instance, then where? At least the cintext and episode. Hal has an instance of recognising a fail-safe in something before and finding a way to get past it. That's vague enough to be a counter according to your own arguments, it seems. He also has hared multiversal beings , but clearly his near equal amount of universal and multiversal showings vare outliers and inconsistent, right? Except the Rings are powered by will and with enough of it, he can reach ridiculous levels. That's typically the in-universe justification for those moments, anyways.

I mean, can Alien X even get through Hal's intangibility? I still haven't seen an answer for that. And how exactly won't the sealing and BFR thing work, again? You just said "it can't," and that's it.

Hal also has automatic defenses as well as the apparent ability to will things ibto existence, including himself when whe was a spirit and/or disembodied conscious. So even Ben wouldn't have a way to truly put GL down, then. As far as I recall, Alien X hasn't displayed existence erasure nor the necessary feats to harm non-corporeal and intangible beings, and this was even an argument against him in a few matches on this very wiki.
 
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