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Death Battle Season Six Discussion Thread (3)

Foxthefox1000 said:
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>provide proof

Literally the video I linked.

Also Hal's stats don't matter if he's literally slowed to a straight up standstill or against a dude with universal+ durability.

You keep mentioning scanning things, but it seems rather difficult for you to post a scan where it isn't reliant on the knowledge already on Oa. I see little reason then how they're going to get information for GL over something from an entirely different multiverse.

I'm not sure how this, "not dying and automatic transformation means he's going to reach his hax aliens eventually" thing is difficult to comprehend. Especially since it's the Omnitrix doing it, which implies it's going to be sending aliens that would be effective against Hal like his hax aliens rather than fodder.

Also I would consider being ******* blown up into bits a bit more powerful than one's internals being attacked, and the Omnitrix regenerated Ben from that just fine. Considering Hal's AP, I doubt he's going to figure out matter manipulation before the Omnitrix transform Ben into one of his hax aliens to **** Hal's shit up through hax given his solar system level punches. Also dudes with energy/matter absorption tended to only be able to absorb the energy of the Omnitrix to transform, implying some level of matter resistance.

Yeah bro intangibility counters reality warpers my dude, I'm sure Hal will figure out he has to go intangible lest he suddenly not ******* exist anymore, nor has Ben ever encountered intangibility in his series.
 
That's an implication you're making, not substantial proof.

As far as the served hand goes, it can still work, as the hand reuqired an outside source to help Ben fron another dimension/universe.

I also recall hacking making the Onnitrix act all funky? Might look ibto that

Also, a scan of simple physiology and physicality as well as an internal scan should be more than enough, even without knowledge fron another multiverse. Ben's capabilites aren't exactly something Hal hasn't seen or used himself, and so I believe you only have grounds for powers and abilities the DC multiverse and he hinself have not battled against or used.

As for the "dying," that was simply regen through utilising the available parts of another alien to create diamondhead. It also shows that Ben's aliens CAN manage to be harmed despite the fail-safe and that there's a brief period where the Omnitrix can be destroyed or warped away to avoid another alien resurfacing, unless of course, this is PIS and thus, you agree Ben nornally wouldn't have perished in such a condition? Either way, it's nothing that proves he still can't die or protect against a lobotony as well as the many other haxes and abilities I've already mebtioned that you'e provided few counters for. To erase Hal with reality warping, you'd have to prove it can do that on a cosmic level, as that's never been an ability any of his forns could do and you cannot assume it is.

Also, White Lantern, Black Lantern, extreme amounts of willpower, and Guantlet of Krona Hal as well as Parallax, Spectre, and Pre-Crisis all have the necessary feats to believably manage against the best aliens Ben's got, as even the weakest of then has universal high-ends.

Wanna feel free to agree to disagree? I'm getting tired of repitition. I've provided my case, as have you, and I see few things of interest that can asnwer to sone of my own. I presume you feel the same, so we've reached a bit of an impass, and there's no fun in arguing with a wall. Others can have fun debating if they want, because I think I'll resign until something ibteresting pops up
 
When someone has their hand cut off, that typically results in them bleeding to death without medical attention. I would consider that fairly fatal to most people. Additionally, it still transformed him just fine without outside help. Also those scans would only work for Ben's powers rather than actually figuring out the Omnitrix. Also yes I would consider being smashed to bits "dying" considering the way the other Chromastone also perished. It also sets a precedent for Regenerationn against a lobotomy if it can regenerate from being blown up. Also fairly certain the Omnitrix's durability level is well above Hal's standard AP. Also creating a universe is pretty cosmic level by most people's standards.

>but these power amped Hals could beat Ben

I too remember when Batman was given his Hellbat suit vs Black Panther because we know that's very standard equipment Hal or Batman can just casually pull out of his ass.

Also hacking the Omnitrix typically resulted in the dude hacking it getting their shit ****** up more than anything, and those are people who would presumably have more knowledge than Hal or the ring on its workings.
 
Eh. The Onnitrix was hacked by Kevin and it went all wonky. I'm pretty sure interference from Hal would cause Ben to have some trouble

You gave me an example of Ben supposedly dying, which prpves the fail-safe isn't always active. Hell, the wiki says that the fail-safe isn't always adhering to these supposed high-ends, either, and a physical brawl tbat Ben willingly engages in seems to be an instance where the Omnitrix more often than not doesn't help. Also hear that you can overcharge the Omnitrix if Ben is constantly switching forms from Alien-to-Alien.

Just saying that there are ways for Hal to win. That's all I'm addressing anymore.

As fat as Hal or Spectre? One of the members of the official team apparently confirmed no Parallax or other non-standard possessions, so I guess it is jist gonna be as predictable as it sounds.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Eh. The Onnitrix was hacked by Kevin and it went all wonky. (Ditto) Just saying that there are ways for Hal to win. That's all I'm addressing anymore.

As fat as Hal or Spectre? One of the members of the official team apparently confirmed no Parallax or other non-standard possessions, so I guess it is jist gonna be as predictable as it sounds.
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I have heard that before but there is no proof I can witness. (Or outsiders are disallowed from such source yet)

But yeah likely we will have a 4-B (maybe SA will be wanking him to 3-C) losing to a Low 2-C. Likely DC is having the first loss to non-Marvel characters - Ben Tennyson (Original) - by Ben Singer - because Beast Boy (Teen Titans) (also DC) and Danny Phantom do not stand a chance - even against Hal.
 
Jared1111 said:
I feel like they're gonna have to pull a Parallax or Spectre Hal to make this fight more interesting, otherwise it's too big of a stomp.
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Hal has too much hax for it not to be a stomp in his favor especielly with how mentally unstable Alien X is and how weak as hell the other forms are without it...That said yeah its pretty obvious Ben is gonna pull a bait n switch by having Hal stomp most of Ben's alien forms until Alien X comes out and then wins...This match-up is complete garbadge.
 
Hal has too much hax for it not to be a stomp in his favor especielly with how mentally unstable Alien X is and how weak as hell the other forms are without it...That said yeah its pretty obvious Ben is gonna pull a bait n switch by having Hal stomp most of Ben's alien forms until Alien X comes out and then wins...This match-up is complete garbadge.

Wolverine (Marvel Comics) is mentally unstable. Raiden (Metal Gear) is mentally unstable. Hulk (Marvel Comics) is mentally unstable. Lucy (Elfen Lied) is mentally unstable. Mental instability never stop them in a Death Battle fight.

From the entertainment perspective Screwattack will have Hal beating up most of Ben's aliens until Ben pops up Alien X and murders Hal hard. From SA's research perspective, they are comparing Alien X at Low 2-C to Hal at 4-B.

Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is already less of a litter when compared to Ben 10 vs Beast Boy (Teen Titans). Ben 10 vs Danny Phantom may be a thing when giving DP the Infinity Reality Gauntlet.
 
Apparently, Hal is comparable to Parallax according to one of the researchers of the fight. Couldn't give exact details, but yeah

And I believe all my arguments are still sound and are ways Hal can win, amd they've had roundabout ways for people to win before.

Mental Instability didn't matter in those fights as much because the opponent couldn't actually get in their head. For this one? Hal does have a means of mental manipulation, and like I said, that universal realiry warping was WITH Bellicus and whatever its name is's help, as they expel a purple energy together that likely helps perform the universal creation. And again, the one even tells Ben not to come to them for universal threats again.

Hal SHOULD win, but I know they will bring out Alien X, which is really the only kicker here, but Hal could still win it fron his speed and hax.
 
Jasonsith said:
Hal has too much hax for it not to be a stomp in his favor especielly with how mentally unstable Alien X is and how weak as hell the other forms are without it...That said yeah its pretty obvious Ben is gonna pull a bait n switch by having Hal stomp most of Ben's alien forms until Alien X comes out and then wins...This match-up is complete garbadge.
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Wolverine (Marvel Comics) is mentally unstable. Raiden (Metal Gear) is mentally unstable. Hulk (Marvel Comics) is mentally unstable. Lucy (Elfen Lied) is mentally unstable. Mental instability never stop them in a Death Battle fight.
From the entertainment perspective Screwattack will have Hal beating up most of Ben's aliens until Ben pops up Alien X and murders Hal hard. From SA's research perspective, they are comparing Alien X at Low 2-C to Hal at 4-B.

Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is already less of a litter when compared to Ben 10 vs Beast Boy (Teen Titans). Ben 10 vs Danny Phantom may be a thing when giving DP the Infinity Reality Gauntlet.

Literally none of them were matched with people with mind-******* abilities...so your argument falls apart before it even starts.


I don't know what kind of shit standards you have to be on to see this as a moderately good match-up. Just an idea...They literally have nothing in common. Why not just put Hal against Richard Rider that makes alot more sense and they have abilities closer to each other. Ben 10 vs any of those other match-ups would actually fit better especielly if they specefy the first series Ben 10...so yet another argument of yours that falls apart so congratulations on that.
 
Apparently, that sane person that talked of Parallax has confirned Pre-Crisis feats and abilities aren't gonna be excluded.

So yeah; Hal's chances of winning have SKYROCKETED
 
"There is no Pre-Crisis Hal" *facepalm*

He was still affecetd by the merging universes because A) he meets his JLA buddies for the first time post-crisis, B) Is given a completely different origin story. 3) Nobody including him reference silver age events.

The COIE was a complete clean slate the only characters who weren't affected were those who exist on an abstract plane of reality like all the Gods, imps and abstract deities. The only real known exceptions being Psycho-Pirate whose batshit crazy from the experience and possibly Wally West (Though writers are almost never consistent on whether he was affected or not until you get to the crossover events where Silver Age Barry comes back god knows what happened to Post-Crisis Barry who appears in Identity Crisis and JLA Year One and other stories)
 
Hal has proven to be a match for Parallax on his own regardless, and it seems Pre-Crisis will be used as a sort of composite. They COULD just explicitly make it Pre-Crisis Hal regardless, so I don't see the problem. We are supposed to be taking characters at their maximum potential in DB.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Hal has proven to be a match for Parallax on his own regardless, and it seems Pre-Crisis will be used as a sort of composite. They COULD just explicitly make it Pre-Crisis Hal regardless, so I don't see the problem. We are supposed to be taking characters at their maximum potential in DB.
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Proof? Because that's not true in the slightest and if that's the case, then Ben 10,000 will be used.
 
Just realise while looking at Ben 10 vs Green Lantern: (thanks to Shin @ Death Battle Wikia for the calculation while I just try to find the source of a proper Big Bang speed calculation source)

What I can find to support Big Bang speed calculatio

"the universe expanded by a factor of more than 10e50 in a time-scale of less than 10e-30 seconds"

Take our universe starts at 1 Planck length

10e50 Planck length = 1.7 lightyear

1.7 LY / 10e-30 seconds = 1.7 * 10^30 LY/s ~= 5.36112E+37 c ~= 53.6 undecillion c

That also means Persona 5 cast dodging Big Bang challenge should be clocked at such speed. RIP Ren Amamiya vs Giorno Giovanna and anyone slower than Persona Joker.

Now we need Ren Amamiya vs Ben Tennyson (Original)
 
There is literally no basis for an accurate number on that feat. Ben clearly also wasn't a planck length away. Heck, there's not a good way to determine how far away he was in a void. The number can range so much that we might as well spin the wheel on the list of big numbers and see where the dart lands to determine a quantifiable and uncontested speed from that.

Last I checked, wasn't it already calced based on the assumptions we have and had a low-end of triple-digit quadrillion c anyways?

Anything vastly above that seems like an outlier for the verse imo.

As for Hal being on par with Parallax? Pretty sure there was a thing where Parallax Hal fought another version of himself and the non-powered one wasn't instantly atomized and put up a fight. Could be wrong. But there's also Parallax-infused Sinestro who Hal managed to severely injure with all of his Willpower (which was basically himself as he became a body of pure willpower and currently still is last I checked) being expelled from him in a concentrated blast.
 
Was guts even strong enough to beat nightmare as they said he had soul hax and never mentioned guts having resistance to that so shouldn't have nightmare just dabbed on guts?
 
IIRC they said that Nightmare's soulhax was the sword tempting a swordsman and Guts'd just ignore that because he loves the Dragon Slayer and knows he shouldn't mess with talking swords.
 
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