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DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 9, We're not Windows or Apple after all]

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DaReaperMan said:
No like, Sauron is like, Warhammer 40K page levels of garbage profile
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There's a lot to get through, it's a slog. Heck, we haven't even touched the abilities or resistances beyond a cursory look. Just stats.

Next revision should have Sauron's tier 3 either lowered to 3-B or raised to High 3-A depending on how interpretations are taken. MFTL+ is from Vigilot scaling. That only recently got a reference. There will also be an immeasurable speed ranking for his "origin" key, but that's not relevant for Death Battle.

They did bring up potential tier 4 scaling for Sauron in Death Battle, but the reasoning was pretty meh (Arien may move the Sun, but the sun is an unrankable fruit at the time of the Silmarillion's main plot). Plus even their scaling for island Sauron is iffy, as Ossë has barely any relation to Sauron in scaling.
 
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Tyranno223 said:
There's a lot to get through, it's a slog. Heck, we haven't even touched the abilities or resistances beyond a cursory look. Just stats.

Next revision should have Sauron's tier 3 either lowered to 3-B or raised to High 3-A depending on how interpretations are taken. MFTL+ is from Vigilot scaling. That only recently got a reference. There will also be an immeasurable speed ranking for his "origin" key, but that's not relevant for Death Battle.

They did bring up potential tier 4 scaling for Sauron in Death Battle, but the reasoning was pretty meh (Arien may move the Sun, but the sun is an unrankable fruit at the time of the Silmarillion's main plot). Plus even their scaling for island Sauron is iffy, as Ossë has barely any relation to Sauron in scaling.
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So basically Arthas loses either way lol
 
DaReaperMan said:
So basically Arthas loses either way lol
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I don't know enough about Arthas really to comment in real detail. The Sauron they used was his peak in the material universe. Aka tier 3 in the wiki (although I have my own compunctions about him being there).

That being said, Sauron should be a-okay from any soul bs. Death Battle handily provided a text from Tolkien's Letters which has his soul protected by Eru, a tier Low 1-C being (plus his original state of being was likely tier 1). He's also, in theory, able to go in and out of physical form and likely still fight while incorporeal (otherwise the early wars of the Ainur make no sense).

Sauron's speed is from the Vingilot flying from Earth to starless voids in a reasonable timeframe (since Morgoth was about to borderline win), so it's somewhere above millions FTL. His immaterial movement is instant, despite the Death Battle consensus, which makes no sense outside of composite (there's two lines regarding this, one of which needs to be added in the next revision).
 
Tyranno223 said:
I don't know enough about Arthas really to comment in real detail. The Sauron they used was his peak in the material universe. Aka tier 3 in the wiki (although I have my own compunctions about him being there).

That being said, Sauron should be a-okay from any soul bs. Death Battle handily provided a text from Tolkien's Letters which has his soul protected by Eru, a tier Low 1-C being (plus his original state of being was likely tier 1). He's also, in theory, able to go in and out of physical form and likely still fight while incorporeal (otherwise the early wars of the Ainur make no sense).

Sauron's speed is from the Vingilot flying from Earth to starless voids in a reasonable timeframe (since Morgoth was about to borderline win), so it's somewhere above millions FTL. His immaterial movement is instant, despite the Death Battle consensus, which makes no sense outside of composite (there's two lines regarding this, one of which needs to be added in the next revision).
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Yeah, makes sense, Arthas is mainly just 5-B, massively Hypersonic, Dura neg sword with some neat hax

That makes sense
 
It’s probably more debatable now but tbh it’s probably only a matter of time till Tatsu gets something crazy off the new anime season
 
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
Man is he so powerful then
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vsbattles.fandom.com

Arthas Menethil (Warcraft)

Arthas Menethil, Crown Prince of Lordaeron and Knight of the Silver Hand, was the son of King Terenas Menethil II and heir to the throne. He was trained as a paladin by Uther the Lightbringer and was inducted into the Order of the Silver Hand. Arthas also had a romantic relationship with the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
WeeklyBattles said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Arthas Menethil (Warcraft)

Arthas Menethil, Crown Prince of Lordaeron and Knight of the Silver Hand, was the son of King Terenas Menethil II and heir to the throne. He was trained as a paladin by Uther the Lightbringer and was inducted into the Order of the Silver Hand. Arthas also had a romantic relationship with the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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cuphead-cuphead-show.gif
 
WeeklyBattles said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Arthas Menethil (Warcraft)

Arthas Menethil, Crown Prince of Lordaeron and Knight of the Silver Hand, was the son of King Terenas Menethil II and heir to the throne. He was trained as a paladin by Uther the Lightbringer and was inducted into the Order of the Silver Hand. Arthas also had a romantic relationship with the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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I'm having the name changed because there are 3 Lich Kings lol
 
So now that that's done there's only the issue of Sauron's speed, as he is currently scaled to a flight speed feat that wouldnt apply to his combat or reaction speeds

Arthas has more than enough raw hax to overcome the ap difference if he ends up being faster
 
WeeklyBattles said:
So now that that's done there's only the issue of Sauron's speed, as he is currently scaled to a flight speed feat that wouldnt apply to his combat or reaction speeds

Arthas has more than enough raw hax to overcome the ap difference if he ends up being faster
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Well the ship was used in combat so it should scale. Ancalagon, the Winged Dragons, and the Great Eagles all fought with or alongside Eärendil atop the Vigilot. That aside, his immaterial form has two accounts of being able to move instantaneously (I still don't know where Death Battle decided teleporting was part of canon).

Abilities still needs a massive look at.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Well the ship was used in combat so it should scale. Ancalagon, the Winged Dragons, and the Great Eagles all fought with or alongside Eärendil atop the Vigilot. That aside, his immaterial form has two accounts of being able to move instantaneously (I still don't know where Death Battle decided teleporting was part of canon).

Abilities still needs a massive look at.
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That would still be flight speed, not combat or reaction speed. Also Arthas actually has a reverse speed steal in that he can put a lock on how fast the opponent is able to move and prevent them from increasing their speed.

Also, what resistances does Sauron have? Arthas has quite a few passive hax passive auras that would mess sauron up just by being near Arthas if he doesnt resist them
 
WeeklyBattles said:
That would still be flight speed, not combat or reaction speed. Also Arthas actually has a reverse speed steal in that he can put a lock on how fast the opponent is able to move and prevent them from increasing their speed.

Also, what resistances does Sauron have? Arthas has quite a few passive hax passive auras that would mess sauron up just by being near Arthas if he doesnt resist them
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In the speed thread it was agreed to scale to reaction and combat speed. The ship explicitly moved at MFTL+ speed as a test of its capabilities, whereas the battle with Ancalagon and the Winged Dragons lasted an extended period of time under duress. It's unlikely Eärendil would not try to use the ship to its best capabilities, plus we have better speed feats in the Legendarium. You'd need to argue against that in a revision thread to change it. Regardless, Sauron's immaterial form, which he can fight in, should be ridiculously faster ("...they could live at any speed of thought or motion which they chose or desired." or "They could go where they willed, that is could be present at once at any point in Eä where they desired to be.").

  • Sauron has his Soul protected and upheld by Eru, as all Legendarium characters are.
  • His body is but raiment and can be discarded at will, so physical damage doesn't do much unless it is seemingly outright killed while manifested.
  • The Ainur first went to battle with each other in a clash of concepts (while the Song did not give birth to the universe outright, it did birth its concepts), not sure what that is.
  • Ainur can battle on a mental plane, and are far superior to (most) Elves or men. Sauron is on the higher end of this spectrum, etc.

There's a lot more, but I'm still mostly working with statistics at the moment.
 
Tyranno223 said:
In the speed thread it was agreed to scale to reaction and combat speed. The ship explicitly moved at MFTL+ speed as a test of its capabilities, whereas the battle with Ancalagon and the Winged Dragons lasted an extended period of time under duress. It's unlikely Eärendil would not try to use the ship to its best capabilities, plus we have better speed feats in the Legendarium. You'd need to argue against that in a revision thread to change it. Regardless, Sauron's immaterial form, which he can fight in, should be ridiculously faster ("...they could live at any speed of thought or motion which they chose or desired." or "They could go where they willed, that is could be present at once at any point in Eä where they desired to be.").

  • Sauron has his Soul protected and upheld by Eru, as all Legendarium characters are.
  • His body is but raiment and can be discarded at will, so physical damage doesn't do much unless it is seemingly outright killed while manifested.
  • The Ainur first went to battle with each other in a clash of concepts (while the Song did not give birth to the universe outright, it did birth its concepts), not sure what that is.
  • Ainur can battle on a mental plane, and are far superior to (most) Elves or men. Sauron is on the higher end of this spectrum, etc.

There's a lot more, but I'm still mostly working with statistics at the moment.
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I mean at that point you would need to prove that it was moving at MFTL+ speeds while fighting, though again scaling to a ship is seldom accepted
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I mean at that point you would need to prove that it was moving at MFTL+ speeds while fighting, though again scaling to a ship is seldom accepted
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The speed thread was sometime in 2021. It ended in characters scaling only in reaction and combat speed. To be precise, only the Vigilot can travel at that speed outright.

The revision was agreed as the battle lasted from day to night, and the Dragons must have been able to react to and counter the Vigilot moving at "serious" speeds.
 
LordGinSama said:
First of all, Dio can be as fast as he wants but that wouldn't help him put down. Dio can pumel Alucard at literal infinite speeds but it'd only count as one kill.


Also passives go brrrrr.
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Fear Manipulation that goes against fear manip standards, you mean?
 
DaReaperMan said:
Fear Manipulation that goes against fear manip standards, you mean?
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It literally doesn't. 💀



Also coming from you of all people doesn't mean much to me given that you have a tendency to change your mind like how my lady doesn't know what restaurant she wants to eat at.
 
LordGinSama said:
It literally doesn't. 💀



Also coming from you of all people doesn't mean much to me given that you have a tendency to change your mind like how my lady doesn't know what restaurant she wants to eat at.
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Okay, prove that it's a supernatural fear instead of Alucard just being spooky?
 
Tyranno223 said:
The speed thread was sometime in 2021. It ended in characters scaling only in reaction and combat speed. To be precise, only the Vigilot can travel at that speed outright.

The revision was agreed as the battle lasted from day to night, and the Dragons must have been able to react to and counter the Vigilot moving at "serious" speeds.
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Do you have a link to the thread?
 
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